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Paths of Civilization

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Therealtahu said:
These are our Kingdom Transitions. They're the only way to get Tolerances.

I couldn't find an AN transition from Pre-Kingdom -> Early Ancient Kingdom (Elective) in any of the story posts. It was archived in another post so I took it from that.

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Yeah, basically high cent/hierarchy trigger government changes which have the boosts you see, as I understand/remember it.
 
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Glassware said:
They've shown a willingness to sue for peace in the past, they'd probably try to negotiate terms if we're threatening Xohyr itself.
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We can't keep letting them off the hook though, The lowlands has been a shithole since forever and if we were to clear out, gobble up or collapse the rest of the people living there, we might actually have a stable trade network and actually not need to worry about getting shanked by a rival kingdom.
 
Motoko said:
We can't keep letting them off the hook though, The lowlands has been a shithole since forever and if we were to clear out, gobble up or collapse the rest of the people living there, we might actually have a stable trade network and actually not need to worry about getting shanked by a rival kingdom.
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I am sorry, but we can't afford a war of conquest. It's just not the way the Ymaryn works.

What we can do is to keep our lowland vassals from conquest. This will permanently cripple the Xoh until we have the ability to take the rest of the lowlands.
 
Motoko said:
We can't keep letting them off the hook though, The lowlands has been a shithole since forever and if we were to clear out, gobble up or collapse the rest of the people living there, we might actually have a stable trade network and actually not need to worry about getting shanked by a rival kingdom.
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We need to deal with our own issues first. We're to big for our government ability already.
 
Kiba said:
I am sorry, but we can't afford a war of conquest. It's just not the way the Ymaryn works.

What we can do is to keep our lowland vassals from conquest. This will permanently cripple the Xoh until we have the ability to take the rest of the lowlands.
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Also, unless they've evolved Center of Trade we can give them a stability hit whenever. And continue to drain them of people.
 
The only way we can have a stable trade network is if we're given time to fortify our holdings and have a kingdom other than us that can rival the Swamp People, HK, and TS. Gobbling it up will not be unopposed, and we need to be ready for that opposition.

Thus, we need to solve our own problems and that doesn't involve fighting more wars. Though this will probably occur, considering we're the King of the Hill and are now no longer living on hills alone.

If the Xohyssiri offer a surrender that includes a value change, technology grab, and *ideally* (i.e. wishlist) some sort of vassalage that can be paired with absorbing the ST, I'd accept it.
 
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Motoko said:
if we were to clear out, gobble up or collapse the rest of the people living there,
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... We'd collapse ourselves, because we can't govern them all.

Remember why the North is unhappy with us and considering breaking off in the first place. The Lowlands are big - it's going to be even harder to build infrastructure for them than the North. And we haven't done that for the North yet, either.
 
Motoko said:
We can't keep letting them off the hook though, The lowlands has been a shithole since forever and if we were to clear out, gobble up or collapse the rest of the people living there, we might actually have a stable trade network and actually not need to worry about getting shanked by a rival kingdom.
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There's a following comment Glassware made where he says /if/ we can breach the Skull Wall we could absorb them.

If you are talking about going on conquest of the lowlands though that is a bad idea given recent information.
 
Candesce said:
... We'd collapse ourselves, because we can't govern them all.

Remember why the North is unhappy with us and considering breaking off in the first place. The Lowlands are big - it's going to be even harder to build infrastructure for them than the North. And we haven't done that for the North yet, either.
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Ideally, it'd be a forced gradual collapse of the lowlands ala Hath. style in which we make it impossible for them to maintain large settlements or maintain their government. that way we can slowly leach their population away.
 
You know depending on how this next turn goes we might be able to avoid the crash entirely. Our weakness is that constantly being attacked can lead to a chain reaction if we don't devote resources to protecting ourselves, but if we deal enough damage then that might not be an issue. The Xoh will be dealing with the aftermath of our attack+the Swamp Waaagh+Climate change over the next couple of turns and so they might simply just be unable to devote the resources to trying to take it back. Given that the HK have abandoned most of their outer territories by now they won't launch a war against us...hopefully.

If we can get a couple turns with nothing on fire after finishing the megaproject we might just be able to survive this.
 
Motoko said:
Ideally, it'd be a forced gradual collapse of the lowlands ala Hath. style in which we make it impossible for them to maintain large settlements or maintain their government. that way we can slowly leach their population away.
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So would we go out and attack them or... how would we force gradual collapse in your mind?

Da Boyz said:
You know depending on how this next turn goes we might be able to avoid the crash entirely. Our weakness is that constantly being attacked can lead to a chain reaction if we don't devote resources to protecting ourselves, but if we deal enough damage then that might not be an issue. The Xoh will be dealing with the aftermath of our attack+the Swamp Waaagh+Climate change over the next couple of turns and so they might simply just be unable to devote the resources to trying to take it back. Given that the HK have abandoned most of their outer territories by now they won't launch a war against us...hopefully.

If we can get a couple turns with nothing on fire after finishing the megaproject we might just be able to survive this.
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I'm pretty much figuring the same, with an addendum that more conquering is bad right now and that the HK are not actively hostile to us as far as I know.
 
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...Does the Xohysirri even know why we are attacking them? They cannot really sue for peace if they do not know what we want.
 
To clear up my views on the admin issue/the collapse:


Reading AN's comment I think that the crash is not inevitable. If we conquer no more and focus inward we can avoid it.

More conquering is bad. Regardless of whether or not the collapse is now inevitable. It makes all our problems worse.

Going over our vassal limit is a bad idea, for the same reasons conquest is bad.

We need to get out of our yellow cent and hierarchy because it is amplifying the problems.

We need to fix the admin problem, by building roads and getting that innovation, making the Palace, and delegating.

After admin is fixed, build non-road infrastructure up north.

Sivantic said:
...Does the Xohysirri even know why we are attacking them? They cannot really sue for peace if they do not know what we want.
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It's a defensive war now so I think they are attacking our vassal now so it should be on the table.
 
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Sivantic said:
They cannot really sue for peace if they do not know what we want.
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Well, we're attacking them because we had internal issues, a conquest-minded leader, and the Baby Eater casus belli.

We're not going to stop having internal issues just yet, and they're not going to drop Moloch Calls (probably), so their best bet is for our King to die one way or another and then sue for peace. We might get a mid-turn decision on what to demand from them in return.

I recommend we not take them as a vassal.
 
Candesce said:
Well, we're attacking them because we had internal issues, a conquest-minded leader, and the Baby Eater casus belli.

We're not going to stop having internal issues just yet, and they're not going to drop Moloch Calls (probably), so their best bet is for our King to die one way or another and then sue for peace. We might get a mid-turn decision on what to demand from them in return.

I recommend we not take them as a vassal.
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Danegeld
Danegeld - Wikipedia
 
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I just had a thought. The Highlanders and the rest of the Lowlands must be freaking out about us.

We have been isolationist and viewed as weak for a millennia, now all of a sudden in about a century we have gotten involved in two wars and used Mercenaries to intervene in two others, leading to the recreation of the Thunder Speakers and expansion for the Highlanders, all in ways that showed us to be the most militarily powerful in the Region alongside this we are the most powerful faction for trade at the moment that they know of, not only that but the Mid Bronze Age collapse wouldn't be seen as actually damaging us all that much by our neighbors.

We must be making the Negaverse really nervous right now
 
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@Academia Nut how many people are in the Red Banner Company anyway? The numbers seem to have expanded recently with the induction of the Hawks and recruits from the Lowland Minors but we don't have any concrete numbers.
 
BungieONI said:
So would we go out and attack them or... how would we force gradual collapse in your mind?


I'm pretty much figuring the same, with an addendum that more conquering is bad right now and that the HK are not actively hostile to us as far as I know.
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Repeatedly destroy vital resources and destroy anything to do with their trade network when we can?
 
McLuvin said:
I just had a thought. The Highlanders and the rest of the Lowlands must be freaking out about us.

We have been isolationist and viewed as weak for a millennia, now all of a sudden in about a century we have gotten involved in two wars and used Mercenaries to intervene in two others, leading to the recreation of the Thunder Speakers and expansion for the Highlanders, all in ways that showed us to be the most militarily powerful in the Region alongside this we aren't the most powerful faction for trade at the moment that they know of, not only that but the Mid Bronze Age collapse wouldn't be seen as actually damaging us all that much by our neighbors.

We must be making the Negaverse really nervous right now
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Aren't the most powerful fraction for trade? We dominate like, several categories, and leading in some.
 
Kiba said:
It is my opinion that we are going to crash in a few turns as per WoG.
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I want to point out that we'll only collapse in a few turns if things continue on their current course. The north and the south are culturally very different, I suspect the crisis will be on what to do next after the Xoh are beaten, especially if the rains don't let up. The north will want to continue a campaign of conquest while the south may want to turtle up again. I think we need to Integrate the north and combine the two cultures, essentially making the People proper more militant but also toning down the north some.

But regardless, I don't think we should wait and do nothing, under the assumption that the crash is inevitable.
 
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