Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
BungieONI said:
The Negaverse has got to be scratching their heads as to how we managed to get the highest Prestige without obviously fighting anyone.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"How did the do it, AF?"
"Well, there are two possible explanations. One, they kept spaming megaprojects to build up the prestige..."
"Pfft, no way. Nobody can build that many megaprojects."
"Or, well, look north of them."
"OHHHHHHH! Nomads! That makes sense!"
 
Hmm. Kinda nervous about the restoration policy. The provinces will be doing improve festivals. The provinces, which we've noticed have slight problems with Just behavior. The festivals, which are our main way of communicating what is Just to the people...
I really don't like what I'm thinking here.
 
DocMatoi said:
Hmm. Kinda nervous about the restoration policy. The provinces will be doing improve festivals. The provinces, which we've noticed have slight problems with Just behavior. The festivals, which are our main way of communicating what is Just to the people...
I really don't like what I'm thinking here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think you are overthinking it and also putting down our provinces a bit. They are not inherently unjust. They are people who do people things.

As to that I think they can take other actions besides festivals. Also our heroes/us when they die can work with them and do things like Enforce.
 
DocMatoi said:
Hmm. Kinda nervous about the restoration policy. The provinces will be doing improve festivals. The provinces, which we've noticed have slight problems with Just behavior. The festivals, which are our main way of communicating what is Just to the people...
I really don't like what I'm thinking here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Worst comes the worst, we can always opt out from Restoration Policy. Besides, three Heroes. We have eyes on the ground what with Rulwyna having connections to many circles, she can find out if things doesn't go as planned.
 
OK, I finally went through the mess of current options to recreate @notgreat 's original action equivalency chart. It's got a LOT harder to do since then, especially with things like Best of the Best creating circular references on wealth and art.

  • Long term values are all that matter. I don't care if we get the stats next turn or this turn.
  • None of the bonus effects proc.
  • There are no narrative effects to anything (cause this is PURELY the mechanics we currently have.)
  • We have ALL the true cities (no LTE effect from normal econ expenditure.)
  • Randomized values are taken to be the expected value with even odds, with the exception of Main RoO (where I account for the double roll) and EJ (where I'm estimating and average of 1-3 = 1.5 and 2-3 = 2.25 due to walls.)
  • What is calculated is the NET cost of the stat. For instance, Glassworks [Se] gives +1 Art and +1 Wealth, and the expense of one action and one econ. So Art from it costs 1+1 Econ-1 Wealth = 0.5 actions.
  • An Action is a secondary action. Mains are two actions.

There are two parameters which we can switch to get somewhat different values:
  • Are we able/willing to do New Settlements? Turns out settlements are by FAR the cheapest way to get LTE, which feeds into a number of things.
  • Are we capped on Legitimacy? This switches our stability options around; Proclaim Glory is really good if we aren't capped on Legitimacy.
Without further ado, here's the action equivalent costs of each stat under each assumption:

Stat Best
Value (actions) 		Best Action
General    
Diplomacy 1 Trade Mission [Se]
Economy 0.5 Expand Economy
LTE 0.143 New Settlement [Se]
Martial 0.911 Chariots [S/M]
Wealth 0.821 Vineyard [Se]
     
Stability    
Stability 0.93/2.78 PG [M]/RoO [M]
Legitimacy 2 PG [Se]
     
Organizational    
Centralization -1.821 Distribute Land [Se]
Religious Auth. 6 Temple
     
Cultural    
Art 0.5 Art Patronage [M]
Mysticism 0.911 Study Stars [Se]
Prestige 2.143 Art Patronage [M]
     
Resources    
Charcoal 1.143 Expand Forest [Se]
(Whether Legit is capped doesn't matter in this case)
Stat Best
Value (actions) 		Best Action
General    
Diplomacy 1 Trade Mission [Se]/More Boats [Se]
Economy 0.5 Expand Economy
LTE 0.5 More Boats/Black Soil [Se]
Martial 1 Chariots [Se/M]
Wealth 1 Vineyard
     
Stability    
Stability 0.75/2.75 PG [M]
Legitimacy 2 PG [Se]
     
Organizational    
Centralization -2 Distribute Land [Se]
Religious Auth. 6 Temple Extended Project
     
Cultural    
Art 0.5 Art Patronage [M]
Mysticism 1 Study Stars [Se]
Prestige 2.5 Art Patronage [M]
     
Resources    
Charcoal 1.5 Expand Forest [Se]

I recommend using the without settlements one, and thinking of settlements as a bonus. The numbers are just nicer.
 
Last edited:
McLuvin said:
And the whole 'best horses in the world', 'richest in the world', 'massive decadence in the courts' shtick we got
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Those last two aren't quite there yet.

We know that the South West people past the Trelli are richer and have more Megaprojects, we are the second in megas built globally apparently.
And we don't have the Art to be decadent.

The horses we win be default. :V


Oh coolio @pblur. Thanky!

I'm kinda confused though what does Best Value refer to? What is it's units? Does it mean that Art for example is worth 0.5 of a general action?
 
Last edited:
BungieONI said:
Those last two aren't quite there yet.

We know that the South West people past the Trelli are richer and have more Megaprojects, we are the second in megas built globally apparently.
And we don't have the Art to be decadent.

The horses we win be default. :V


Oh coolio @pblur. Thanky!

I'm kinda confused though what does Best Value refer to? What is it's units?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh yeah I forgot about Naval Power! Not! Egypt....

They scare me. I mean jeez, me and you talked about the possibility of them before but to hear that a Naval focussed Not! Egypt on the Atlantic Ocean might be actually real is scary as shit
 
BungieONI said:
Those last two aren't quite there yet.

We know that the South West people past the Trelli are richer and have more Megaprojects, we are the second in megas built globally apparently.
And we don't have the Art to be decadent.

The horses we win be default. :V


Oh coolio @pblur. Thanky!

I'm kinda confused though what does Best Value refer to? What is it's units? Does it mean that Art for example is worth 0.5 of a general action?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Units are secondary actions.
 
Candesce said:
You've left out Enforce Justice for stability.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We should still get some more chariots though, if the Red Banner Company doesn't do it for us, a chariot archer in iron scale will wreck most Nomads, better equipment, armour and speed and on the Lowlands, where they only have javelineer chariots with bronze they'd be screwed by superior speed and range and numbers.

So maybe we should Secondary Chariots at some point what with the increased threat from the Lowlands due to having 'The Crown' and still waiting for those bastard Normads to come back
 
McLuvin said:
Oh yeah I forgot about Naval Power! Not! Egypt....

They scare me. I mean jeez, me and you talked about the possibility of them before but to hear that a Naval focussed Not! Egypt on the Atlantic Ocean might be actually real is scary as shit
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not me. We have the Bosporus to defend us.

While now the Trelli are on it, we will be eventually, just through the simple passage of Time we will get something with our interests in mind in place there. They can't get a fleet through that bottleneck and chokepoint without us harassing and damaging it. And even then they seem completely uninterested in us.

Also on top of that from the way it is looking I think we are dealing with a Not!Egypt much closer to RL Egypt, with less Naval power than we speculated, because I think the Mediterranean is still in play so they may well have not gotten to the Atlantic.


pblur said:
Units are secondary actions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thank you!
 
Glassware said:
I'm pretty sure everyone has figured out at this point that we're megaproject spammers.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Actually it's far more efficient to gain prestige from spamming Main Art Patronage followed by Main Proclaim Glory, alternating for as long as you had a source of Econ recovery. This was the Xohyssiri model, and how they got a shitload of pottery techs.


pblur said:
Diplomacy1Trade Mission
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Noting that Main Trails do it too
 
BungieONI said:
we will be eventually
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
*resists the desire to shout 'conquer the Trelli!!!'*

Whilst Not!Egypt isn't an issue for now they will probably survive the Bronze Age collapse same as us, and whilst we will probably have expanded by then they will likely still be an issue except a closer one waiting to take a swimg
 
veekie said:
Noting that Main Trails do it too
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sure. As does Main trade mission and Docks. The action equivalents for each of those is:

  Trade Mission [Se] Trade Mission [M] Build Docks [Se] New Trails [M]
Diplomacy 1 1.2 1.5 4.5
 
Last edited:
Citino said:
>Everyone else having a shit time
>Ymaryn become King of the Hill
>Keeps stealing everyone's econ
>Ymaryn enter Golden Age
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It does actually fit both our strategy and narrative. We've always been the civ that infrastructure tanks massively disruptive events and then benefits from our neighbors' troubles and relative weakness. For us a golden age during a massive sustained disruption fits because we are specked to tank those, and benefit from our neighbors failing to do so.
 
Last edited:
McLuvin said:
*resists the desire to shout 'conquer the Trelli!!!'*

Whilst Not!Egypt isn't an issue for now they will probably survive the Bronze Age collapse same as us, and whilst we will probably have expanded by then they will likely still be an issue except a closer one waiting to take a swimg
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well my main problem with thinking of them as "a closer issue waiting to take a swing" is that that kind of thinking makes enemies out of possible allies.

If they are remotely more advanced in the ways they do trade (evolved CoT or the like or actually having currency too), like we are since we dropped CoT and thus incidentally lost any real reason to be angry at the Trelli, it is far more beneficial to make friends with them.

Really it's beneficial to make friends with the Trelli and convince them to open their strait for us to since by doing that we can avoid wasting resources and attention fighting them while probably also fighting the Nomads.
 
BungieONI said:
Really it's beneficial to make friends with the Trelli and convince them to open their strait for us to since by doing that we can avoid wasting resources and attention fighting them while probably also fighting the Nomads
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Why do you assume we'll be fighting nom- PFFFT I'm sorry, I couldn't say that with a straight face...
 
DocMatoi said:
Why do you assume we'll be fighting nom- PFFFT I'm sorry, I couldn't say that with a straight face...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Khorne: "Bloody hippies, they rebuffed the last two double hero shots with static defenses, even if I got into their heads a bit and taught them the love for Nomad blood, they went and gave presents to Nomads!
Slaanesh: "I'm loving what they do here, they love My perfection, and they accept fucking with everyone and everything. But their music is crap and so is their art."
Tzeentch: "I planned the taxes! And the City! And the legal reforms!"
Nurgle: *Sulks*
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top