ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
I somehow suspect that our food supplies would last longer than theirs.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Honestly, from my understanding of history, "orderly retreat" against a unified nomadic threat is actually really fucking good
- Location
- United Kingdom
[X] [Main] More Blackbirds
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] Study Forests
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] Study Forests
- Location
- Somewhere
What Mega-Project are we looking at building once the Library is complete?
Our choices:
The Games are too new on the list to gain a priority. Especially when it might increase martial.
Grand Docks, something for the future.
Grand Palace has strong support that we should build this as soon as possible.
Great Dam is something to build, but isn't a major priority. Still something that should be built considering how long on the board it's been on. And it would have been nice when we went to help the MW if we knew how to build it.
The Mountain, why did we build a mountain? To make a better mountain.
Place to the Stars; I want this. If we build this we finally have a calendar, and AN should start posting dates in updates. I won't need to think the time of those three awesome chiefs. Or the time we got drought finally becomes the time we got drought in year one. While the other time we got drought becomes a notable event in year sixty-seven.
Our choices:
The Games are too new on the list to gain a priority. Especially when it might increase martial.
Grand Docks, something for the future.
Grand Palace has strong support that we should build this as soon as possible.
Great Dam is something to build, but isn't a major priority. Still something that should be built considering how long on the board it's been on. And it would have been nice when we went to help the MW if we knew how to build it.
The Mountain, why did we build a mountain? To make a better mountain.
Place to the Stars; I want this. If we build this we finally have a calendar, and AN should start posting dates in updates. I won't need to think the time of those three awesome chiefs. Or the time we got drought finally becomes the time we got drought in year one. While the other time we got drought becomes a notable event in year sixty-seven.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Pretty much yeah. Nomads strength is that they bring everything important with them, so when the encounter say a group of enemy soldiers, they likely have close to all of their tribe's warriors with them, with only a few left behind to keep watch on the civilians. So our outlying soldiers likely decided that they shouldn't stay and wait for nomads to arrive, and so started to orderly retreat.
[X] [Main] More Blackbirds
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
- Location
- Staring into the void
Grand Palace. We need the admin modifiers, especially now that we have to deal with additional bureaucracy from having a true city.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
[X] [Main] Expand Economy
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
[X] [Kick] No
Really don't like the food situation, and econ scales with martial. Last bunch of conspirators can wait.
Edit: Not kicking anything, stability is too important now.
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
[X] [Kick] No
Really don't like the food situation, and econ scales with martial. Last bunch of conspirators can wait.
Edit: Not kicking anything, stability is too important now.
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@Academia Nut
Just to confirm, the Salt Gift returned no stats, correct? Its entire benefit was given to the allied Eastern Nomads.
1) Great Dam
2) Grand Palace
3) Grand Docks
4) Place to the Stars
5) The Games
And Mountain isn't even on the list.
Dam is more important than the Palace right now. It grants stability, improves our construction techniques, and gives us more econ slots which are running low.
[] [Main] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
[] [Kick] War Mission
[] [Kick] War Mission x2
For 4 main-equivalents, AKA the original pre-province button.
Just to confirm, the Salt Gift returned no stats, correct? Its entire benefit was given to the allied Eastern Nomads.
I mentioned my ordering previously here. Adding in the docks, I'm at
1) Great Dam
2) Grand Palace
3) Grand Docks
4) Place to the Stars
5) The Games
And Mountain isn't even on the list.
Dam is more important than the Palace right now. It grants stability, improves our construction techniques, and gives us more econ slots which are running low.
We're spending 3 econ in total from completing the megaproject, True City cost, and the Blackbirds. However, we gain 4 from the Baby Boom. Expand Econ now risks us breaking the Baby Boom from lack of econ slots.
No, that's
[] [Main] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
[] [Kick] War Mission
[] [Kick] War Mission x2
For 4 main-equivalents, AKA the original pre-province button.
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- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
[X] [Main] More Blackbirds
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
Nothing preventing it. The particular statue depiction is deliberately easily taken in either direction. Crow in his depiction could be a demon, an aspect of the same being, a helper, a pet, or more.I wonder if we focus more and more on Our Goddess, wonder if we can form a monotheism with a Goddess instead of a God?
Naw, the Nomads do, because they're basically in a permanent Heroic Age and can't get anything done at all without a Hero, but our own Heroes are largely just furthering decisions and systems laid down tradition.
Lowland wise, you don't see many heroes mattering that much in the big picture, other than producing dramatic reversals.
Not exactly. The raid system of warfare is very complicated but it goes:
-Ymaryn can put more dudes in any one place for longer than the Nomads can, because we're an agrarian people and actually have food stockpiles and supply wagons rather than subsisting off forage
-Nomads can put more dudes in any one place for a SINGLE clash than the Ymaryn can, because everyone is mounted and their population is far more militarized.
-Ymaryn have many more total dudes, but can't get them all to the battlefield as quickly. So we have deeper reserves, but can't use them all without consequences.
So what happens is:
1) Nomads will send a raid force against a location which doesn't have a large garrison force or walls.
2) Ymaryn watchtowers detect raid, farmers will evacuate towards the walled villages while the Nomads get slowed down by all the irrigation ditches and bocages
3) Ymaryn counter-raid heads out to punish the raiders.
4) Raiders either engage if they think they can take us or run away.
5) Go to 1.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Kinda keen on starting a monotheistic religion with our Goddess, be interesting dichotomy with Judaism and our Religion.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Veekie... this mostly reads like naive idealism.Also some older discussion because slowpoke.jpg
I think the Nomad reaction depends on how we fight them:
-Ymaryn Main(4 Martial committed) + Stallion Tribes Double Main + Symphony(Core + March Mains) + Eastern Nomads Double Main + Metal Workers Secondary MIGHT leave them deciding those other guys are better for loot.
So guessing at the ranges of results:
-Defense does well + Nomads does well = Nomads seek glory. Next turn will continue.
-Defense does well + Nomads does poorly = Nomads swear to get us for this, turns to slam into the Metal Workers, Thunder Horse, or the Thunder Speakers to get the prestige to attract a bigger waagh. Latter is more likely, as they are in less defensible terrain.
-Defense does poorly + Nomads does well = Nomads emboldened. Horde grows.
-Defense does poorly + Nomads does pooly = Shameful display. Nomads weaken, but will likely hit us again.
Of pilgrim types:
-Farmers
--Motives: Appeal to supernatural
--Expense: Primary expenses will be on travel and supply. Will tribute in stockpiled grain(much as it's like giving snow to an eskimo).
--Income: Likely to bring back stories and lessons rather than goods. Likely to bring back some talismans. Likely to seek farming lore from Ymaryn priests(which unfortunately they can't implement because it takes a full social unity effort to farm like we do)
-Traders
--Motives: Acquire trade goods and ideas. Acquire starmetal goods.
--Expense: Primary expenses will be on trade goods and arts as tribute, as well as bringing in lots of gossip and ideas.
--Income: Likely to bring home lots of gossip and ideas, as well as religious goods.
-Artisans
--Motives: Appeal to supernatural. Acquire starmetal tools.
--Expense: Primary expenses will be on acquiring religious goods and talismans. Will be bringing their own products and potentially their knowledge(generally people won't see anything wrong with telling the priests how they do it if it'd get them better supernatural intervention) as tribute.
--Income: Likely to bring home new ideas on art designs(so there'd be a profusion of knotwork and verdant imagery in regional art), though they would need to do something unusual to get techniques.
-Warriors
--Motives: Appeal to supernatural. Acquire starmetal weapons.
--Expense: Primary expenses will be on acquiring religious goods and talismans. Will be bringing their wealth to offer as well.
--Income: Likely to bring home stories and lessons more than anything else.
-Priests
--Motives: Religious exchange
--Expense: Primary expenses will be travel and food. Priests will be there to engage in spiritual debate and may try to purchase access to the library when it's done.
--Income: Most likely to bring home technologies. Will also be the most likely to syncretize our pantheon with their own and motion for expanded temples.
-Nobles
--Motives: Prestige, appeal to supernatural
--Expense: Huge expenses. Any traveling nobles will be making a big show of their wealth and prosperity by buying luxuries in significant quantities on the way. Most likely to bring formal technology trades.
--Income: Most likely to desire to copy some Ymaryn government concepts on the way back. Without the troublesome part where apparently other people can decide who is boss. Also probably want to raise giant herds of cows so they can eat veal every day. Also likely to try to trade for Ymaryn expertise.
-Heroes
--Motives: ???
--Expense: ???
--Income: ???
Noting that some of the pilgrims will want to acquire starmetal, and inevitably some enterprising criminal will find it profitable to sell some at a ridiculous markup against central direction.
Probably would pop up as a factor later. If so I'd probably move to sell iron tools and weapons as ceremonial stuff, priced insanely high and runed.
The market is there after all, either we'd take advantage of it or people will smuggle it. If we officially sell some of the stuff as properly blessed and all, then they still wouldn't have enough for military use.
That and I'm rather amused at the idea of how the Thunder Horse will react when we're selling copies of their royal regalia.
I think it might ease the Stability hits of refugees if they are culturally assimilated, but I doubt that's going to happen very soon(and then we'd have overreach issues too)
You're forgetting the fact that we have already had traders and artisans coming to us for hundreds of years, and they are unlikely to share their secrets for the same reasons they don't now. Which is that if you tell everyone how to make your special product, it isn't special.
Want me to give you a little primer on "spiritual debate" for pretty much all of history? Go look at the Middle East. Our neighbors have violent religions bent on human sacrifice. They might be traders now, but they won't 'debate' anything. They'll try to burn it.
The concepts you've listed here might be applicable in a half a millennia, but....
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
I'm OK with the bandwagon, but since we're looking at spending two secondary War actions, I have to ask: How favorably does this compare to a single Main action?
If Main actually looks like a decent choice, then perhaps we could swap the Blackbirds action to a secondary and add something else (like Black Soil, or Walls/Towers)? That would avoid the Econ hit for the Blackbirds and provide an opportunity for an Econ- or Martial-boosting action, although we'd lose the "additional effects".
If Main actually looks like a decent choice, then perhaps we could swap the Blackbirds action to a secondary and add something else (like Black Soil, or Walls/Towers)? That would avoid the Econ hit for the Blackbirds and provide an opportunity for an Econ- or Martial-boosting action, although we'd lose the "additional effects".
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Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
2 secondaries is identical to a main, we're basically doing "Main Blackbirds + main war mission", but the way the vote tally works we have to do it this way. The only exception to that is if we do like
Secondary: new settlement <location>
Secondary: new settlement <other location>
Which would be two secondary-level settlements, and different than
Secondary: new settlement <location>
Secondary: new settlement <location> x2
which would be one main-level settlement
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] [Main] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
[X] [Kick] War Mission
[X] [Kick] War Mission x2
Fuck it, if people are so enticed by the warring then might as well go full tilt
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
[X] [Kick] War Mission
[X] [Kick] War Mission x2
Fuck it, if people are so enticed by the warring then might as well go full tilt
- Location
- Staring into the void
Actions that add econ expansion slots:
With the Baby Boom, we're going to be at 3 slots left next turn.
With the Baby Boom, we're going to be at 3 slots left next turn.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Thanks for the explanation.
Still might be worth considering whether we should split the war mission into mission + support (eg expanding walls).
- Location
- Somewhere
@Academia Nut how do our trade ships not get lost on the water during travel? Do they skate by the shore? Are they actually in open water with no shore in sight at any point in the route? Do they only travel at night, only in the day, or travel on the water in both conditions?
Great Palace is high priority because our government system is visibly straining to stay on top of the situation and constantly costing us Stability in patches and fixes.
Last turn's math shows it to return 2 Prestige instead of 1, but no stats.
In exchange the Eastern Nomads are currently clashing with the Waagh instead of joining them now that their Hero is dead.
I'd point out a few things:
-We've gotten technology from traders and artisans before. It's not as fast as refugee surges, but it happens(mostly before we picked up LoO and started sucking them off our neighbors). Pilgrimages will improve the odds, but they are still low odds. It does add up over time.
-We've had Xohyssiri priests come to us to exchange medical knowledge before.
-We've in turn, gone over to the Spirit Talkers to exchange knowledge before, which led to our spiritual technology becoming more complex.
We won't be exchanging blueprints, but ideas are carried by people, and the average person both loves to talk and has no idea how valuable the ideas are.
Heck, remember the ash glazed pottery? The migrant potter thought it was just how things were done, and shared it without any consideration.
Heck, look at the historical middle east, which was a center of exchange of ideas based upon religious exchange.
Just to make sure people are aware, the double-kick plan leaves us at a likely ~1 Martial, and -1 Stability. And we just lost the actually good Restore Order.
We are currently at 6.
+1 from True City, at 7.
-4 from BB, at 3.
+1 from Megaproject (via True City), at 4.
+1 from Blackbirds (via True City), at 5.
We'll also be at Econ 5 (the same calculations but reversed)
I count us at 5.
We are currently at 6.
+1 from True City, at 7.
-4 from BB, at 3.
+1 from Megaproject (via True City), at 4.
+1 from Blackbirds (via True City), at 5.
We'll also be at Econ 5 (the same calculations but reversed)
