Uh, no. First of all, I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that the mining and smelting professions were mostly aligned with the splitters, while it was mostly the lumpers behind this conspiracy. Second, these people are hiding among our people, not running off to a new land to go become a traitor.
Also, from a "this is a quest" perspective, we succeeded in our roll, we got the best outcome other than a crit-success on dealing with the problem, which doesn't sound like the kind of thing that leads to "and suddenly your biggest concrete advantage over your enemies is gone"
 
Sure, it's possible, but it isn't the guarentee that you were suggesting.

Also keep in mind that other groups are not us. They don't get the passive acceptance of new tech as easily as we do, since CA is bullshit. We only learned bronze due to accepting refugees, everyone else has to actually put effort into finding new tech.

The problem is that we are a leading culture, so our "culture" is more desirable than "normal" culture. the HK adopted our laws, what would they do when they learn that someone has the tools to make divine things like us?
 
Always. Society has changed and it no longer works the way it did before.



You can use it up to Legitimacy - 1, but if you go over your new Legitimacy the extra stability is wasted.
So, basically this is because society is advanced enough that launching a crackdown no longer inherently makes everyone panic(particularly when we've established laws for evidence and forms of crime), but it also inherently makes people question whether the guy on top actually has your best interest in mind or if he's just another power grab.
I know we're at war with the nomads, but does a War Mission have to mean that we're invading them? We fight better defensively. Does sending troops to bolster defences count as a war mission?
War Missions are any military action. In this case since it's a mandatory war mission, it's defensive.

Restore Order has massively changed now.
[Secondary] is far better than [Main].

Secondary: -1 action. -1 Legitimacy. 1 average stability.
Main: -2 actions. -1 Legitimacy. 1.44 average stability.
edit: fixed number
We then have to take a Proclaim Glory to solve the Legitimacy problem. That costs us 2 art and 1 action. It's freaking expensive.
[Secondary] RO+[Main] PG is reasonable-ish.
3 actions, 3 art, 1 econ -> 2 Stability, chance of 1 prestige
That's really the only reasonable one. Risky though since RO is 0-2 instead of a flat 1.
Probably best used for its narrative effects.


We lost that waaaay long ago, when we lost Sacred War and the associated Restoration of Harmony.
On the other hand it's much better as a Purge Corruption option now if Mained with Proclaim Glory.
We apparently have 100% walls, though admittedly most of them seem to be light walls. Makes Enforce Justice a bit less useful, but that's not really important right now.
Naw on both points:
-Walls are independently tracked. A Heavy wall counts as a Light wall for percentages.
-Enforce Justice's main random factor is the Centralization gain, so more alls makes it BETTER, because we don't redline Centralization too fast.
So it turns out that we can actually declare war on someone to stop them from selling shinies. I'm just wondering how many turns it'll be before we invade someone for their oil to promote democracy in the region.
Huh, missed that. Cool
I agree with you there - a potential merge can't just happen over night. They need a "shared identity" as you put it - I think our pantheon and faith could be that unifying force. All I am saying is that things change and continue to change. For instance, before two updates ago, did anyone foresee the Xoh and TH merging? Just keep a open mind on how much things can change.
Less a cultural merge and more of "our city is way nicer to live in than yours, why not move your royal family here?"
 
[X][Main] Build Glassworks
[X][Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X][Secondary] More Blackbirds

Halfsies to jump on the new trade good at the very last second before we're likely to get stuck in War hell for multiple turns. It'll pay off down the line to do it now and maybe or maybe not take a slightly bigger hit this turn.
 
Well, I don't know about that; we're happy to trade with anyone who wants to.

OTOH, if staying out of the constant mutually-destructive wars around us is sufficient to be "reclusive", then by all means, let us recluse.

ETA: and vacuum up all the destabilised population.
 
Last edited:
Hmm...wasn't exactly a quest, though. AN has noted that the corruption situation arose due to a critical innovation fail, so without a critical success to mop it up, some symptoms may persist.
By quest i meant "this whole thing is a quest", not that the corruption issue was an in-quest quest or anything like that. And i agree that "some symptoms" will exist, but "some symptoms" and "our people flee to other civs and teach them one of our greatest secrets in spite, even though by all accounts our People are pretty proud of being People and don't think super highland of the lowlanders" is a bit more than "some symptoms"
 
On the other hand it's much better as a Purge Corruption option now if Mained with Proclaim Glory.
After looking through a few more numbers, it's not as bad as I initially thought.

Valuing Econ at 0.5 actions ({S} = 2 econ) and Art at 0.75 (1 action+1 econ = 2 art. 1.5/2=.75)
Ignoring Prestige benefit -> {M} PG is worth slightly more than evaluated here
Assuming pure averages
Code:
Action           | cost                     | Effect                      |Total Cost| Overall Efficiency
{S} RO + {S} PG  | 2 actions, 2 art         | 1 Stability                 | 3.5      | .2857
{S} RO + {M} PG  | 3 actions, 3 art, 1 econ | 2 Stability, 0.5 Prestige   | 5.75     | .3478
{M} RO + {S} PG  | 3 actions, 2 art         | 1.44 Stability              | 4.5      | .32
{M} RO + {M} PG  | 4 actions, 3 art, 1 econ | 2.44 Stability, 0.5 Prestige| 6.75     | .3615
While {M} PG is more efficient that {M} RO if we only spend 3 actions, {M} RO does turn out to be more efficient than {S} since Legitimacy costs so much to raise.

Edit: For comparison, the Old [Main] RoO had an efficiency of 0.66, and 0.76 assuming a 10% GG.
Current festival is .4444 (1 Stability, 2 actions+2 econ in for 3 input cost, -0.75 net cost for the +1 art)
 
Last edited:
I recognize it's already messy but is there a way at all to attach these to provinces? I don't really want to expand Temples that are closest to the frontline.
Certain
-Valleyhome - Rainbow Trail (0/4)
-Sacred Forest - Sacred Forest (Temple 0/8)
-Redshore - Holy Sea (0/4)
-Stonepen - Horse Valley (0/4)
-Northshore(coastal) - White Circle (0/4)
-Northshore(near Stallion Tribes) - Warrior's Rest (0/4)
-Black River - Star Mirror (0/4)

Uncertain
-Southshore(?) - Sunrise Grove (0/4),
-??? - Skyforest (0/4),
-Redhill(?) Bloodgrove (0/4),
-Redhill(?) - Spiritwell (0/4)
Uh, no. First of all, I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that the mining and smelting professions were mostly aligned with the splitters, while it was mostly the lumpers behind this conspiracy. Second, these people are hiding among our people, not running off to a new land to go become a traitor.
Yep. Going by the Glass discovery, the Lumpers were the Pottery association heads, who didn't want a new material made in similar ways for similar purposes to weaken their authority.
Sure, it's possible, but it isn't the guarentee that you were suggesting.

Also keep in mind that other groups are not us. They don't get the passive acceptance of new tech as easily as we do, since CA is bullshit. We only learned bronze due to accepting refugees, everyone else has to actually put effort into finding new tech.

I mean, CA is about 90% of the reason we are so high tech even though we are reclusive as fuck.
Most people fear and dread foreign ideas.

We invite them to sit next to us.
 
I wonder if we focus more and more on Our Goddess, wonder if we can form a monotheism with a Goddess instead of a God? :p
 
[X] [Main] More Carrion Eaters
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
 
I feel like maybe this quest runs on the Great Man theory of history?

Equivalent chariot tech + better archers + much superior weapons - Hero = orderly retreat
 
Equivalent chariot tech + better archers + much superior weapons - Hero = orderly retreat
Well, the People have much more to protect than the nomads do. We vastly prefer a defensive war, the kind where people ride up and beat their fists on our walls while we stand on towers and turn them into arrow-cushions.

ETA: The nomads also seem to have the advantage of numbers, since - as the attackers - they can concentrate their forces.
 
Last edited:
I feel like maybe this quest runs on the Great Man theory of history?

Equivalent chariot tech + better archers + much superior weapons - Hero = orderly retreat
Well, keep in mind that they've got a genius leader. Tactics and strategy can and do trump even significant tech advantages. The nomads just happen to be able to produce martial geniuses quite often.

But as shown by their last invasion, all the brilliance in the world can be defeated by a determined and prepared foe.
Uh, no, because then they'd just raze the countryside and starve us out.
Boats say hi.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top