I didn't though? When I said true conquest mission that's who I meant. :p E: Unless you mean something else?
No, that's what we both meant. Just talking past each other. My bad.
]
I think my problem with this storyline, and only the story time, is this

"-Then recruiting, get the warriors lined up, recruit from his bros promising great loot and status to come, take the trade mission and provoke a first strike, then go to the King and present him with a new province on a silver platter."

We have seen no evidence of said person. Also as an aside that is a very textbook young hothead plan.
Hence why it's a storytime. It's just a little too pat to be that perfect.

As to the issue of the sub chief I see no reason it could not be a case that they manipulated events to get themselves a sub chief position but then fucked up and got caught. Why? One is that we are not inflexible enough to not accept new blood and they could have come from the outside of the system. Two this is a sub chief position, which sounds very low on the totem pole, so I figure it is easy to get into if you are intelligent enough. Three, if they did start outside the chief system they do not have the problem of clan line loyalties clouding the idea maker.

So an intelligent person makes a lot of friends, gets them to move to the clan because they say these friends will get benefits, and the overflow plan is enacted. From there it works a little too well and we get the case that the person was elected sub chief, but got caught because they weren't smart enough to clean up evidence or get a "friend" in place instead to deflect blame.
That's the problem here. It's very hard to get into even a subchief position. It's comparable to trying to get elected as the mayor of a small town with no political background or favors to pull. A second or first generation migrant will never get the spot unless they do something completely crazy.

However, it's not too hard for a first generation migrant to make it so a specific sub chief gets elected through clan manipulations.

In such a case, there is no need for the migrant to be the guy getting elected. It's actually counterproductive to do so, after all, even if he gets elected sub chief, he's not going to be chief within the decade. But he could however repeat the same stunt to stuff the sub chiefs with enough normally marginal people owing him favors for getting elected.

Think like a mafioso, would they want to be elected mayor and be accountable, when they can have all the benefits without the vulnerability and scrutiny of the position?
You have a good chance of being right in the idea that the overflow problem, the clanless, and the warrior fuck up are the doings of one or maybe a small group of snakes. Probably a small group due to complexity and the amount of different connections and crossed social spheres I imagine would need to be made to pull this off.
Probably a small group. Even if it was one genius they'd still need trusted people to carry out the plan while he's doing another part.

I simply need more solid proof before I will say that the overflow is connected to the clanless event. It is a valid way for that to happen, but not the only one since other means of corruption were mentioned if not extrapolated on. We should probably ask AN some questions about what our king and advisors know about how the clanless got clanless. What's their various stories? Do they make sense?

The clanless thing being connected to the warriors I can see. They'd make a great core of loyal people to get that bullshit off the ground.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. It's speculation at this point. It's plausible enough to factor in as a possibility however. Just too neat to be coincidences.
 
It's not everyday I agree with maximillian on unpopular opinion about aristocracy, but today is the day.
Well at least I can feel confident in the fact that I voted for the adoption vote because I thought it simplest, and not for any anti-noble hate boners or other noble/aristocracy related reasons. :p
I was honestly slightly terrified the dissolve the clans options seemed simple to our advisors on the surface but would cause massive problems. Silly me big time. Not doing that again if I can avoid it.

At least that's what I remember of my own reasons. It's been more than 24 hours and a lot of stuff has happened okay! :oops:

And to tell the truth I sometimes find maximillian hilarious when they get to joking around and they do have good points about history.
 
It's not everyday I agree with maximillian on unpopular opinion about aristocracy, but today is the day.


You've seen the light!


Well at least I can feel confident in the fact that I voted for the adoption vote because I thought it simplest, and not for any anti-noble hate boners or other noble/aristocracy related reasons. :p
I was honestly slightly terrified the dissolve the clans options seemed simple to our advisors on the surface but would cause massive problems. Silly me big time. Not doing that again if I can avoid it.

At least that's what I remember of my own reasons. It's been more than 24 hours and a lot of stuff has happened okay! :oops:

And to tell the truth I sometimes find maximillian hilarious when they get to joking around and they do have good points about history.


Glad to see my humour appreciated.
But am quite confidant that am a singular he rather than an amalgamation.
 
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But am quite confidant that am a singular he rather than an amalgamation of theys.
Even the avatar is a singular hatted sheep.
And the answer to that is that I am sometimes lazy and had not checked if you had marked your gender, so I was being polite. :V

Wuuurbbllluuuburble. *wiggly arms* (yes I love being weird :D)
 
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[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
I'm liking this, but it's not gonna win, so gonna choose the closest

[] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)

Edit: Oh wait, it's winning! Yay!
 
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It also could mean establishing the means for people to advance, as the bigger the hierarchy the more impossible it is to be staffed by elites only.
Doesn't China work like this starting from some point in it's history, up to the present?

That whole heavenly bureaucracy thing?

Sorry for double post.
 
... Are we in a crisis now?

The clan issue seems messed up right now, and still not solved.

EDIT: So not fun to be doing a Megaproject, hemorrhaging Myst, probably in a war, and in crisis.
 
Doesn't China work like this starting from some point in it's history, up to the present?

That whole heavenly bureaucracy thing?

Sorry for double post.


Am no expert on China, but to my knowledge the great families and persons dominated the top echelons while the the further down you go the lesser the family or person. Ending with the bottom bureaucrats being local notables or favourites.

So in essence yes it gave way for those of middle or upper lower social status to get into the buecracy. After that it was thier own networking, ruthlessness, underhandedness and brutal cunning that could advance them.



The example am more familiar with would be the British or French bureaucracies in the baroque era. While in earlier times the privy Council and all the Kings functionaries where Lords of the realm. The massive bureaucratic growth following the establishment of government institutions (tax, trade, finance and military) and entities (as opposed to selected persons being authorised with the tasks and power of said institutions as was the case earlier), means that it was flat out impossible for nobles to run it. Hence you got the predominance of lesser and clerical nobility as well as the mercantile elites and notables and the freeholders.

Basically it went from pure upper class to some upper, mostly middle and a sprinkle of lower.


The Romans had the same thing as the expansion of the buecracy made the nobles a tiny fraction of government, hence Augustus campaign to have them breed as much as possible to counterbalance the commoners.
 
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... Are we in a crisis now?

The clan issue seems messed up right now, and still not solved.

EDIT: So not fun to be doing a Megaproject, hemorrhaging Myst, probably in a war, and in crisis.
Sorta.

With the fuck up of the Century occurring right now we certainly have problems. But when the next turn comes around we should have an option to back out and reverse our stupid, based on text in the update, and I'm strongly considering taking it. Too many irons in the fire to really fuck with this too much, and we did fuck up with taking this.

Going into next turn I will have careful consideration of our options. Much like I did when I made my vote.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 29, 2017 at 7:22 AM, finished with 42947 posts and 114 votes.
 
It makes it much harder for ambitious people from lower classes to advance legitimately.

Actually no, that's not how it works

It our focus on competence that works here against us, cause somebody who is literally being raised into the job, by being taught about it since their childhood will always be more competent then some scrub who likes to do stuff like that & isn't a natural genius at that stuff

However considering we had that focus since a few turns after we got the elective system in place in order to avoid incompetent rulers and the fact that it works the way it was supposed to will make it a real pain to remove unless we actually invent some kind of school system that will act as a counterweight to whole homeschooling/'learning what your parents are doing' thing we currently have in place
 
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[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
 
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
 
The big reason why the option to retrieve the warriors has a higher chance of triggering war is in large part because if the Highlanders show up when you have a bunch of fresh warriors coming in, they're going to draw conclusions first and ask questions later.
So the plan is to go to the village with a lot of dudes, send the warriors who attacked the village home with an escort, keep the village occupied, try to negotiate weregild with the HK and then hand over the weregild and village?
 
With the fuck up of the Century occurring right now we certainly have problems. But when the next turn comes around we should have an option to back out and reverse our stupid, based on text in the update, and I'm strongly considering taking it. Too many irons in the fire to really fuck with this too much, and we did fuck up with taking this.

Actually I'm against reversing the whole thing,
1 cause it sounds like it would cost us even more Stab, something we cannot allow to happen at the moment
2. if you look at it, it actually worked until people started to actively fuck with it in order to rock the boat for political advantages, therefore I think the safer solution would be to place counterweights & balances on it until it works,
It would also avoid letting us look incompetent, something we should definitly avoid in case there is really somekind of snake or shadowgroup that acts against our interests, as it would present them with the oppurtunity to agitate our population further, maybe even start some riots as a cover action or convince our warriors to rebell outright
 
So the plan is to go to the village with a lot of dudes, send the warriors who attacked the village home with an escort, keep the village occupied, try to negotiate weregild with the HK and then hand over the weregild and village?

Sounds to me more like capturing the warriors & escorting them back into our territory, leaving the village undefended while we investigate the incident & then send a real diplomatic mission in order to apologize & give weregild
 
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