- Location
- United States
You are doing a lot of mental gymnastics in order to justify your side here.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Mists of Albion
Thank you for your analysis
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
He's not, really. He's saying that he thinks a reinforcing action and offensive war would be against the values of the people. I quoted you a little ways back, and provided evidence that he has the right of it.
Edit: I didn't see your reply to that quote. Using stability gain/loss is a poor way to affirm your stance of being a morally right choice. The entire update makes it clear that nobody thinks it was a correct thing to do.
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ThatGazzer
Minds Eye Bind
- Location
- PNW
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
- Location
- United States
I've already explained that morals and ethics define what is evil, I then went on to explain that our people don't object to it because we suffer no stability drops from the choice. He effectively dismissed my argument by making a claim that our civ does object to it and that the stability drop isn't there because this is something that'll harm our traits.
As his claim has no evidence to back it up, he's effectively supporting his unsubstantiated claims with more unsubstantiated claims.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
Um.... isn't our stability down by an additional -1 due to the excess martial causing this issue, I thought it was a reflection of people not being happy with the new Ymaryn militarism that bred this situation
Spectrum
Tell me a secret~
- Location
- Behind you~
Ugh, I can't believe some of those options won. Well, it's fine, no one listens to me anyway when I say something probably isn't very smart.
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
What a stupid problem.
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
What a stupid problem.
- Location
- United States
We also suffered significant social upheaval from the constant fissures of clans within our capital.
Stability is an indicator of social stress/upheaval, so it's a pretty good way to gauge how our civ reacts to certain choices (looks at legitimacy dropping option). The update makes no mention of our civ's feelings on the prospect of going to war, just that it was a stupid situation that came up.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
I think the major objection to going to war is concern that our civ has picked up too many warlike traits for our collective liking as it is, and it's frighteningly easy to pick up war-oriented traits if we engage in it - remember Sacred War way back when? This kind of stuff tends to build on itself.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
"Sorry we annexed a village, our bad. Have like 5 countries worth of Salt Gift! We cool now?"
Seems like a good mix of options. We try to find out the mastermind, we try to save our misguided warriors and deal with them internally rather than letting them get murdered by the HK, and it's not definitely war, only probably war. We can fight probably war just fine.
"Sorry we annexed a village, our bad. Have like 5 countries worth of Salt Gift! We cool now?"
Seems like a good mix of options. We try to find out the mastermind, we try to save our misguided warriors and deal with them internally rather than letting them get murdered by the HK, and it's not definitely war, only probably war. We can fight probably war just fine.
Well, I'm certainly going to ask Academia Nut about the relative complexities of any administrative choices we encounter in the future.
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
- Location
- United States
We currently have no open slots for a trait. People that i've argued with have been using justice as an objection here, so it may have underlying beliefs that we'll downgrade the protective justice trait. That hasn't been stated however.
All i've gotten is how evil it is to go to war for conquest, and how much it'll upset our people (because they're apparently all against it despite no evidence implying/stating that).
Edit: Also how evil it is to be unjust.
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We also did not have an open trait slot as we lost "nobility in humility" and gained "quantity has a quality of its own", the very trait causing us current problems.
The description of Symphony on the front page stands in stark contrast to a war of conquest, namely the fact that we do not have a normal offensive CB means that this would be a case of going against it. If a society goes against its values those values get eroded.
Probably not. In ~75% of cases we'll now be in the same position as before (war) but without a march helping, and minus 5 diplomacy that would normally be overflowing into our other stats.
TheDanishLord
Viking Warlord
- Location
- Denmark
I see it as reinforce a position from attack, peace is not a gertie
- Location
- United States
When our trading caravan went to a village, someone started a fight and it spiraled out of control (ending in our control of the providence). Since we have the option of going to war, it means that we have a weak casus belli. Why does it mean that? Because we've been unable to send war missions to anyone besides the nomads...so the fact the option is available means we have a casus belli (however weak).
If we didn't have a casus belli then it wouldn't be available, or the option would cost stability.
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Except it will be a defensive war. Protective Justice will have its due and Symphony will be working for not against us.
- Location
- Australia
Solving this Stability/Martial should be our number one priority once we get to the normal turns.
With a Secondary action, we'll swap policy over to Megaproject Support so that the Temple continues work. It should also prevent them from doing Expand Economy, which will allow Upper Valleyhome to decompress. Kinda sucks, but it's a problem generator and should be left for after we've finished solving our current problems.
With that done, we'll have a Main action and a Secondary action to fix things with. One of those actions needs to be a Grand Sacrifice.
With a Secondary action, we'll swap policy over to Megaproject Support so that the Temple continues work. It should also prevent them from doing Expand Economy, which will allow Upper Valleyhome to decompress. Kinda sucks, but it's a problem generator and should be left for after we've finished solving our current problems.
With that done, we'll have a Main action and a Secondary action to fix things with. One of those actions needs to be a Grand Sacrifice.
I'd say negative stability and overflowing martial score -overabundance of angry young men- is more of a reason for us having the ability for this action.
Actually a main restoration of order will be arguably a better option.
It's a case of technicality over the spirit of the core values of the people... to be fair some of the values. Our honor traits are pushing us towards war but I for one do not wish to give them more prominence.