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Paths of Civilization

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[X] Improve Annual Festival (-2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects)
[X] Breed it

[X] Kick them out of Southshore (War Mission)

[X] Yes (Trade step farming for chinampas)
 
Timewinders said:
What's to stop them from just spying on us and figuring out how to make it anyway? The Chinese weren't able to keep their silk secret forever. We can trade the knowledge and maybe get something equally valuable for it - the Dead Priests are quite advanced in some ways - or we can lose our advantage anyway and get nothing.
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The number of techs they'd have to figure out in order to steal it is enormous, and unlikely to happen when bronze is the chief tech. Not to mention the knowledge of where to even dig up the ore.

Please, tell me. What could possibly be as valuable as a technology two levels higher than the current standard? There is literally nothing that valuable that anyone has.
 
Umi-san said:
waiting on quote from AN & no, we kind of don't. It's nice for finishing the thing all in one turn, but not a "need."
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Academia Nut said:
On the practical side, they were simply producing too many cows to keep them all without damaging the land by turning it all to pasture, so they could only keep some of the cattle they bred. While obviously they would simply eat some of the excess, that lead into the much more important issue of spiritual matters.
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This quote flat out says we kill the excess cows and eat them. The entire purpose of the sacrificial calf is that the Ymaryn feel guilty over exploiting all the cows by breeding large number calves, intentionally infecting them with cowpox, and then killing majority them because we flat out cannot support that many cows. So yes we definitely kill alot of calves.
 
Crazy7s1 said:
The quote say that will only happen if we completely ignore it, we can still do it later and have it be fine.
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This thread never works out that way. Ever. We never actually built the special kilns either. We got sucked into a war and 7 turns down the line it was just the way things were.
 
Academia Nut said:
General
Diplomacy 14 (max, overflowing) [+1]
Economy 12
Martial 11 {15} (partial over limit)

Stability
Stability 1 (confident)
Legitimacy 3 (max)

Organizational
Centralization 3
Hierarchy 6

Cultural
Art 8
Mysticism 5
Prestige 8
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Note that we've had a quick update to our stats. Econ is 12, not 13; 13 was from a math error. Also, we've got another art and mysticism from the Mine triggering canal :)

...I wonder if the Vineyard is enough of a land management/engineering feat to trigger Canal too...i dont know much about vineyards :p
 
[x] Improve Annual Festival (-2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects)
[x] Breed it
[x] Yes (Trade step farming for chinampas)

Hrm. I'm not sure whether I'd rather build boats or war mission. If the war mission goes badly, that might be enough to cost us our challenge.

I'd really, really like to get our challenge over and done with next turn, and without hitting stability 0, which might also fail it. That means festivals; we'll do vinyards first thing after that, pretty much guaranteed.

pbluekan said:
Please, tell me. What could possibly be as valuable as a technology two levels higher than the current standard?
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We're trading step farms, not iron. We've had those since before we had copper.
 
"Back in my day we didn't trade with no stinking dead priest..."

"Times change old man!"

Seriously though this option seems best long term.

[X] Improve Annual Festival (-2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects)
[X] Breed it
[X] Build boats to counter them (-2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects)
[X] Yes (Trade step farming for chinampas)
 
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pbluekan said:
Eeeeh, not really. Our major advantage is the gamebreaking combination of terra preta, forest management, and step farms. Step farms are valuable, yes, but our sheer success is due to the combination of all of these and the knowledge that they all bring to the table. Chinampas is simply an extension of this.
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...? These don't actually combine, imo, they apply their benefits separately. (I'd also argue that forest management can't really be counted, due to its ties to both terra preta and step farms.) Step farms mostly provide benefit by maximizing the usage of water, which will have a significant impact on the land the TS occupy and possibly on the TH if they live in a hilly area.

BungieONI said:
They can't really use step farming. It gives more earthworking knowledge true, but they basically already have it. We get far more of an advantage by getting chinampas with our waterworks. This basically propels us even further ahead of the curve. If they find out we have starmetal, oh well I guess? That will scare the shit out of everyone when it gets out and I expect them to give us a very wide berth. We might even get some prestige out of it.
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It loses us shit for something rly only applicable in still water places, which exist only where the dam will be made.
 
Timewinders said:
What's to stop them from just spying on us and figuring out how to make it anyway? The Chinese weren't able to keep their silk secret forever. We can trade the knowledge and maybe get something equally valuable for it - the Dead Priests are quite advanced in some ways - or we can lose our advantage anyway and get nothing.

If anything, it's our medical knowledge we should keep secret. Biological weapons at this stage would be gamebreaking.
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Because we can't use biowarfare without literally breaking as a society, and if anyone ever did it we'd basically be routelocked into murdering them so hard the entire area becomes an inhospitable wasteland for millennia.

Also Iron is not easy to come across. You need to make several leaps (took a literal nat 100 in a golden age for us to discover iron, and then we had to eat tons of stat damage that we're still recovering from).

Though to be fair, immediate and total subjugation to us for the price of iron tools sounds completely reasonable, so you know. Maybe we can trade, our iron for their freedom as a polity.
 
pbluekan said:
The number of techs they'd have to figure out in order to steal it is enormous, and unlikely to happen when bronze is the chief tech. Not to mention the knowledge of where to even dig up the ore.

Please, tell me. What could possibly be as valuable as a technology two levels higher than the current standard? There is literally nothing that valuable that anyone has.
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It's hard to say since we don't know exactly how advanced they are. Perhaps something like more advanced shipbuilding techniques, Greek Fire, Roman-style concrete or something. Or, you know, mathematics.
 
pbluekan said:
@Andres110 This is why we should do it now. It will be built over soon. Our people are industrious and will love to get their hands on ground that is fertile enough for vineyards.
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And this sort of statement seems disingenuous. He says if we ignore it entirely. It will probably be an option next turn. And if we leave ourselves on balanced Blackriver should reach out and snag it for us.

I much prefer the Festival. We need to re-learn how to party, plus it has great synergy with integrating the refugees we just absorbed.
 
NotteBoy97 said:
This quote flat out says we kill the excess cows and eat them. The entire purpose of the sacrificial calf is that the Ymaryn feel guilty over exploiting all the cows by breeding large number calves, intentionally infecting them with cowpox, and then killing majority them because we flat out cannot support that many cows. So yes we definitely kill alot of calves.
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... why did you quote that post? It's irrelevant to your response. If you just wanted my attention you could @ me. I interpreted that passage as being less r.e. newly bred cows and more a reference to the over all population of cows that we've bred. However, AN's recent comment about veal has changed my mind.
 
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[x] Improve Annual Festival (-2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects)
[x] Breed it
[x] Build boats to counter them (-2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects)
[x] Yes (Trade step farming for chinampas)
 
Timewinders said:
It's hard to say since we don't know exactly how advanced they are. Perhaps something like more advanced shipbuilding techniques, Greek Fire, Roman-style concrete or something. Or, you know, mathematics.
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They'd have to give us all of that as leadup into the real negotiations for us to even consider giving up iron smelting - iron is legitimately just that valuable.
 
Guile said:
Didn't it sound more like they would be focusing on Art and Mysticism? That seems like a good recipe for entering a golden age of their own.
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Well yeah but they are doing that because the Thunder Horse have their hands shoved so far up the collective Thunder Speakers asses that the TS are basically gone as a Martial culture, which was what defined them.
 
@Academia Nut, if we have no pratical use for a certain tech, will it remain in our tech pool or will we slowly forget about it & lose it because it is not done/used over the generations ?
 
Umi-san said:
do they? We taught the WC farming but did we teach them step farming?
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The HK are the direct successor state to the WC. They really should have inherited that tech, especially since it's so helpful on their hills.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 23, 2017 at 1:17 AM, finished with 39451 posts and 39 votes.
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