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Path of the Immeasurable Swarm [Worm/Cradle]

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The issue with the Abidan's attempts at addressing the problem of monarchs is that for all they look down on them, the approach they take is itself childish. The problem of Monarchs cannot be addressed by dealing with the individuals, because it is a geopolitical issue and has nothing to do with individual personalities to begin with.

Having one being the equivalent of being a nuclear power, if you take them all away every state will start a crash Monarch development program, well aware that if anyone makes it decisively first, they can have everything their way for an indefinite amount of time.

The only way to fix the problem is to change the conditions from which it naturally arises. Lower the power ceiling, stopping new Monarchs from ever existing, or create a replacement for their strategic role that has competitive advantages, and make it easy to switch over.

I'd expect Taylor to grasp this fairly easily, cape politics featured a fair deal of MAD in their own way.
 
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NemiTheNen said:
What about Multitude as her Icon?

Many, many as one. Fits her bugs and some of the way she vibes with the Akura family. She's one of the Multitude of them now, not related but having a place. Becoming one of the multitude.

And then, when she learns the Monarch's secret, when she is betrayed and isolated. Speck Icon.
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Naaah she was never truly one of many. Neither when using her bugs or as a hero/villain. She was more "Many with one purpose" or "Many who are/answer to one " and strove to achieve the above often whith force.

It's pretty difficult to describe the above with one word for an Icon though. At least in English.
 
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Zoolimar said:
Entirely possible. Icon is about understanding and knowledge. Where you can feel the core of some concept down to your bones. It's easier if you go out of your way to study about it but is in no way it's a requirement.
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Thanks, and yeah, in this case I could see this happening. Taylor absolutely has enough insight for such an Icon in general due to all the Worm stuff, just would need a similar situation where there's a massive unstoppable crisis coming, nobodies working together to deal with it, she realises if she could go Khepri here she could totally solve it, then bam, unwanted enlightenment.

The story beat would be then if she goes on to fully use that power, or take a different path.
 
FallenPears said:
Don't know if it's possible to get an Icon you didn't want, but if we're being mean to Taylor then the Tyranny or Control Icon.
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It's possible, but this isn't a story about Taylor trying to reinvent herself ala Eithan. She already went through a bunch of character development offscreen and is now mostly a different person, to the point that a bunch of readers have commented on it. It would be tonally off for this story for to zag into Taylor angsting about getting an Icon she wants to move away from.

It'll probably be either the oracle Icon or IIRC Eithan mentioned being a candidate for the perception Icon once upon a time, that would be a good fit, as Taylor's similarity to the Arelius ability has been remarked on. I doubt the author will get too cutesy with these things.
 
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Honestly, the Silent King's speech to Lindon has a lot of similarities to Taylor's potential icon. Or at least, Khepri's icon. I don't think Taylor would want the Unity icon.

Also, while you can connect to an icon you don't want, it's totally possible to refuse that connection.
 
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Maping said:
Honestly, the Silent King's speech to Lindon has a lot of similarities to Taylor's potential icon. Or at least, Khepri's icon. I don't think Taylor would want the Unity icon.

Also, while you can connect to an icon you don't want, it's totally possible to refuse that connection.
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Oh fuck the Khepri Icon. Not Khepri's, but Khepri.

That's, that'd be bad. Or good.
 
NemiTheNen said:
Oh fuck the Khepri Icon. Not Khepri's, but Khepri.

That's, that'd be bad. Or good.
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You could have broom (and Eithan according to very reliable source) icon, so I don't see why Khepri icon is impossible, I do suspect that Taylor will abandon such an icon now, maybe after the mad king happens she will take something like it.
 
Yeah, you can IIRC consciously choose not to manifest an Icon if you don't want to?

Not that Taylor's current behaviour would net her a Khepri icon, so it's kinda a moot point.
 
NemiTheNen said:
Oh fuck the Khepri Icon. Not Khepri's, but Khepri.

That's, that'd be bad. Or good.
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Khepri Icon is virtually impossible since nobody on Cradle except Taylor would be able to recognize her as Khepri so she couldn't use perception to help herselfget that Icon.
And I don't think Khepri Icon and Broom Icon are comparable since the idea of broom is very common inside Cradle.
Besides getting a weird Icon like the Broom is a mark of great understanding and proficiency with Icons, not something gained by blindly following the path of least resistance like most Sage candidates including Taylor

The Icon that she would probably get is probably connected to her Way insights from fortifying Endless Swarm technique. Something connected to the vastness or devouring. Shadow, Hunger or Void are good candidates, as known Icons. Endlessness would be a better fit to what meaning she actually has.
 
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Krazo said:
Khepri Icon is virtually impossible since nobody on Cradle except Taylor would be able to recognize her as Khepri so she couldn't use perception to help herselfget that Icon.
And I don't think Khepri Icon and Broom Icon are comparable since the idea of broom is very common inside Cradle.
Besides getting a weird Icon like the Broom is a mark of great understanding and proficiency with Icons, not something gained by blindly following the path of least resistance like most Sage candidates including Taylor
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Ozriel proven everything can become an icon with the broom, and it wasn't mentioned as far as I remember that acknowledgment by Cradle is required, as long as the concept exist and touch the way, it can exist, now even if not Khepri specifically, Taylor could theoretically touch icons that call on it, Unity, Domination, Adminstration, Tyranny and so on.

I don't think she will though, maybe if her path touched control of others more, if she continued acting like Skitter, giving people offers with a gun to their heads, not letting herself lose control of the situation, working to force people work together even if they don't want to...

Instead she gone in completely different direction, her swarm isn't even made of independent creatures anymore, she can probably touch the bug icon, and other icons like you mentioned, but without an attitude change, she doesn't touch Khepri related icons.
 
As simple as it is, with her path being Shadow/Dream and focusing on deception, illusion, and spiritual attacks she's basically guaranteed to touch the Shadow icon at some point.

But as a more personal development her current mindset towards gathering allies and befriending them mostly for the sake of it, would fit something like Unity.

And her multitasking/living madra ability being so notable that people like Eithan and several Sages have taken note could fit something like Multitude or Swarm.

In the end the icon of a sage is so subjective and varied that the only force which matters is the authors. So I personally request that she eschew the process entirely and become a
Herald first./s
 
You're all missing an obvious solution, Taylor's icon will be QA itself after it has dragged itself through the void and punched out a number of Abidan, Vroshir and Fiends along the way in order to find Best Host once more.

It will look like a massive glowing infinitely faceted crystal occupying a too small space that everybody swears is looking at them and possibly jumping up and down in happiness, the fact that every visible facet is showing the image of a different icon is considered even more terrifying.
 
As a few other people have said basically anything can be an icon. Some of the ones we know include strength, sword, bow, blood, winter, death, life, joy, void, hammer, oracle, crown, hunger, shadow, dream, and broom. Its also worth noting that icons aren't really single things, the strength icon has also been called the fist icon, the bodily power icon, etc. Tyranny, khepri, control, etc icons would probably fall under the crown/ruler icon. The broom icon is also probably more accurately the cleansing, cleaning, or erasing icon or something along those lines.

In addition while it is possible to refuse an icon the only person that we know has done so is Eithan and he has special circumstances that make it possible, even likely, that most people cannot refuse an icon.
Eithan follows the same path and ends up getting the same icon as the founder of the Arelius family who was a really terrible person and Eithan strongly doesn't want to be like him.
Eithan is also secretly the founder of the Arelius family trying to reinvent himself and start over with a better path and has manifested multiple icons in the past including the one he ends up rejecting
 
Zoneco said:
As a few other people have said basically anything can be an icon. Some of the ones we know include strength, sword, bow, blood, winter, death, life, joy, void, hammer, oracle, crown, hunger, shadow, dream, and broom. Its also worth noting that icons aren't really single things, the strength icon has also been called the fist icon, the bodily power icon, etc. Tyranny, khepri, control, etc icons would probably fall under the crown/ruler icon. The broom icon is also probably more accurately the cleansing, cleaning, or erasing icon or something along those lines.
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I think that basically wrong, different icons are different icons, and your own actions probably influence heavily how they manifest, the crown icon for example may allow you to increase cooperation for your subjects, create some telepathic link so they work better, a Khepri icon wouldn't, a Khepri related icon will enslave them instead, likewise, Malice isn't a mind controller despite having the crown icon.

The broom icon might do some stuff like say, the purity icon, but the purity icon isn't going to make you better at hitting people with your broom any more than it will do with any other weapon.
 
Zoneco said:
In addition while it is possible to refuse an icon the only person that we know has done so is Eithan and he has special circumstances that make it possible, even likely, that most people cannot refuse an icon.
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Yerin actually refused the sword icon for a while but doing so really distracted and caused problems with her fight. And basically minutes later she picked up the Death icon.

Roth963 said:
Ozriel proven everything can become an icon with the broom, and it wasn't mentioned as far as I remember that acknowledgment by Cradle is required, as long as the concept exist and touch the way, it can exist, now even if not Khepri specifically, Taylor could theoretically touch icons that call on it, Unity, Domination, Adminstration, Tyranny and so on.

I don't think she will though, maybe if her path touched control of others more, if she continued acting like Skitter, giving people offers with a gun to their heads, not letting herself lose control of the situation, working to force people work together even if they don't want to...

Instead she gone in completely different direction, her swarm isn't even made of independent creatures anymore, she can probably touch the bug icon, and other icons like you mentioned, but without an attitude change, she doesn't touch Khepri related icons.
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I hardly think manifesting the Broom icon is proof that anything can be an icon. The Broom at least is a concept known to many sentients in iterations connected to the Way. Khepri on the other hand is known by Taylor and maybe the upper echelons of the Akuras.

I don't think we can say one way or the other but I think it makes more sense for an Icon to be something many people in iterations connected to the way are familiar with. Although alternatively I think if a single powerful person(like Ozriel) continually works on it for hundreds or thousands of years it might work. But I think it should be concept that has impacted the Way in some reasonably substantial manner. I don't think Khepri qualifies although if the Earth Bet and the like are connected to the Way it might but then with her name being suppressed so much it might not.
 
p235711131719 said:
I don't think we can say one way or the other but I think it makes more sense for an Icon to be something many people in iterations connected to the way are familiar with. Although alternatively I think if a single powerful person(like Ozriel) continually works on it for hundreds or thousands of years it might work. But I think it should be concept that has impacted the Way in some reasonably substantial manner. I don't think Khepri qualifies although if the Earth Bet and the like are connected to the Way it might but then with her name being suppressed so much it might not.
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Imo it depends on the individual, but the way the individual sees themselves depends on the culture they live in. For instance, I would say Taylor could manifest the Gun Icon or the Sharpshooter Icon (if she'd taken a completely different path) because those are concepts she's familiar with, but no one else on Cradle would be able to because they aren't. Or, like, the Sword Icon embodies the concept of the sword master, so anyone who's familiar with that concept and fights with any kind of sword will tend to manifest that Icon rather than a more specific Icon. You'd have to take a very non-standard approach to fighting and life in general to manifest like the Machete Icon instead, for example.
 
One of the things that I don't like about idea of "Khepri Icon" is that Khepri isn't a thing but a name. If Taylor would be to use an Icon from Earth Bet it would be something like "Master" Icon, which has most of the traits of Khepri but is an actual symbol instead of nickname.
 
It's important to note that Icons are a thing of The Way, NOT of Cradle. Yes, certain rare people on Cradle are manifesting them but the thing that is important is the Way, not the people on cradle other than in aggregate. So Gun's would be entirely possible as an Icon, even though the concept hasn't happened on Cradle...its just needs somebody to embody guns as a concept. So yes unlikely for a Gun Sage to turn up on Cradle, but the capacity is there if somebody in a back corner focused upon it etc.
 
Bel said:
So yes unlikely for a Gun Sage to turn up on Cradle, but the capacity is there if somebody in a back corner focused upon it etc.
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There are enough launcher constructs that I think it's possible for a gun sage to pop up naturally on cradle. Somewhat unlikely, but Cradle is a big world with a long history, so…
 
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