Which have you read?

  • I have read at least 2 books of Young Wizards

    Votes: 43 23.0%
  • I have read all of the main Young Wizards series and some/all of the Feline Wizardry Sequence

    Votes: 21 11.2%
  • I have read worm.

    Votes: 80 42.8%
  • I have spent time in SV's creative writing section.(Worm)

    Votes: 111 59.4%
  • I have no idea what's going on.

    Votes: 16 8.6%
  • I have only read Worm

    Votes: 39 20.9%
  • I have only read Young Wizards

    Votes: 3 1.6%

  • Total voters
    187
Yup. Saturday. Sure.

I'm just going to stop making promises about a schedule, since it's painfully obvious that I can't meet them.
 
[X] Go with him.

Pretty much a job requirement to help, though our testimony won't count for much I fear.

[X] Will you practice a spell? If so, which one? (Write-In)
-[X] Yes
-[X] Sleep spell

Basic self defense, with a knockout mode seems ideal. We aren't looking for fights, and the magical equivalent of a tazer is a minimum and works from gangers to parahumans.

[X] How will you pay for the things you need? (Write In)
-[X] Playing 'rogue' sounds good, but your hosts likely have the best idea as to how to make money without causing too much trouble for people or attracting negative attention. Outline some of your capabilities to Mr Hebert, and see if he has an idea.

Fuzzy on our capabilities. Its been too long
 
[x] veekie

It looks like the sleep spell mentioned in the post is a touch attack, can we find a ranged version? There are a number of parahumans that we don't want to get into melee range with.
 
[x] veekie

It looks like the sleep spell mentioned in the post is a touch attack, can we find a ranged version? There are a number of parahumans that we don't want to get into melee range with.
The spell mentioned is indeed touch based. However, it's a proof-of-concept for 'non-specialized modular persistent utility' wizardries*; the goal was a 'shell' that could have almost any spell a wizard would need slotted into it to be kept ready for multiple activations. However, the author of the spell had to soft-limit it, as above a certain level of complexity for the spell used, calculation and power-drain errors occur. The sleep spell and touch-based-targeting used were used because, together, they're within that limit(if only barely), and though ranged targeting utilities within that complexity level do exist, they tend to be finicky at best**.

*Self-renewing wizardries did exist prior, but they were all specially built to do such from the ground up.
**Read as: will occasionally target the air between the wizard and the intended target, any solid object within five feet of the intended target, anything less than 20 feet behind the intended target, and (rarely) an object in a direction opposite the intended one.

If you want to build a ranged version, you're going to have to redesign it, almost from scratch, with no insight from the person who designed the prototype. While this would give you several advantages(such as the ability to load multiple spells in at once and target any of them at an intended target that's considerably distant(if one of your loaded spells was a decent nameFetch utility) as well as insight into how the spell works, allowing you to memorize it easier), it would take quite a while to do so.

Also, you'd probably have to get a power source for it- even though the 'sleep' spell that was used for the prototype is about as energy-efficient as a broad-strokes spell can get, the 'idling' energy/focus draw is still quite noticeable while it's running. Holding any single spell that's more demanding ready would likely be a bit much, nevermind multiple.
 
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So basically, we can currently use this spell framework to load a spell that requires less than a certain amount of power. If we go over that power limit then the spell may have random effects when cast due to errors introduced by the framework. While the spell is loaded we can cast it multiple times without any extra preparation, as long as we have the power to put into it. The framework also saps a certain amount of power constantly while it's active based on what spell is loaded into the framework.

We can improve it to let us do more powerful spells (including ranged effects which seem to be out of the power range of the current framework) and hold more than one ready at a time but it is a long term project and may require extra equipment (Some external power source) to offset increased power usage.

Can you give some examples of what sort of power levels would be required for different spells? what can the current version of it handle versus what we could do with an improved version other than ranged effects.

edit:

While I'm thinking of it, our other options seem to be:

Standard battle spells which are one off spells and require an incantation to cast.

Finding spells specifically designed to be recast multiple times, basically the same as the framework but without the modular swapping.

Something completely different that the players might come up with.

Or not doing any sort of preparation at all and winging it if we get into combat.
 
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So basically, we can currently use this spell framework to load a spell that requires less than a certain amount of power. If we go over that power limit then the spell may have random effects when cast due to errors introduced by the framework. While the spell is loaded we can cast it multiple times without any extra preparation, as long as we have the power to put into it. The framework also saps a certain amount of power constantly while it's active based on what spell is loaded into the framework.

Sort of? The cap is actually on spell complexity- there is a hard limit to how much power can be pushed through the framework, but spells that require that much power would have too high of an upkeep cost to leave idling for very long. The complexity cap can, of course, be bypassed with more elegant/efficient writing, but as a general rule, if a spell has made it into the manual without a lot of warnings, it's probably been edited and bugtested from here to Timeheart and back- it's likely as efficiently written as it will be for the forseeable future, and any improvements will be minimal at best.

As for the effects of going over that limit, you don't really have to worry about random effects- unless the loaded spell is utterly abominable in design, a few glitches aren't going to change the outcome majorly. On the other hand, if you leave the multicast framework running for long enough with a complex enough spell, you will shortly wake up hours later with one of the worst headaches you've ever had, feeling as though you had collapsed just after finishing several marathons in a row.

Can you give some examples of what sort of power levels would be required for different spells? what can the current version of it handle versus what we could do with an improved version other than ranged effects.

I had a several-hundred-word-long mess to answer this, but the following is probably more succinct: spells that are vaguer in description have (as a general rule) a higher energy cost, and less extra features. More precisely written spells can have a lower energy cost, and more powerful and specialized effects, but might miss something that the brute force of the vaguer spell would slam right into and deal with. The current version of the framework can't run spells that are overly complex, and thus they must be vaguer in design. The improved version could run higher-precision spells.

(basically, if you want to try a spell with the current one, keep it simple and brute-force; if it won't work, I'll say so(in less time than it took me to write this up.))

edit:

While I'm thinking of it, our other options seem to be:

Standard battle spells which are one off spells and require an incantation to cast.

Finding spells specifically designed to be recast multiple times, basically the same as the framework but without the modular swapping.

Something completely different that the players might come up with.

Or not doing any sort of preparation at all and winging it if we get into combat.

1) Could work. Of course, even battle spells tend to take at least a minute to cast.

2) Are rather rare on a personal level; for the most part self renewing spells are things of decent scale that are meant to stay in operation for quite a while, while the closest most other spells get to multiple-cast is a matrix loaded with multiple instances of the same spell.

3) Is where Wizardry shines, honestly. The sky's the limit, given enough information and prep time. (This is what I both hope for and dread)

4) Honestly, could work; with improvisation and wizardry, every fight becomes a puzzle boss.
 
1) Could work. Of course, even battle spells tend to take at least a minute to cast.

Nita was able to get off that shield spell vs. The Lone Power in High Wizardry quickly enough to block Its attacks. Mind you, Its attacks were powerful enough that the shield drained one year of Nita's life for each hit it blocked, where something like a mundane sniper rifle would have drained only a few minutes or so...
 
Nita was able to get off that shield spell vs. The Lone Power in High Wizardry quickly enough to block Its attacks. Mind you, Its attacks were powerful enough that the shield drained one year of Nita's life for each hit it blocked, where something like a mundane sniper rifle would have drained only a few minutes or so...
The shield in question was already ready for casting.
High Wizardry: Save and Exit said:
"And the last," said the Lone One. It made an angry sweeping gesture at them. But Nita had been waiting for something of the kind. She clenched her hand on the gimbal and thought the last syllable of the spell she had been holding ready."
 
Alright. So, is there any chance of replicating the spell Darine used shortly thereafter that point? The one that stopped the expansion of the universe briefly? I'm well aware it requires knowing the Name of the universe to be stopped, but...
Nope. Dairine was in full Mother of the Mobiles mode at that point. The spells used were highly intricate, and the power behind them was... Well, it was the power of 2000 newborn wizards.

There's a reason the Lone One was so adamantly trying to destroy them(Even aside of the whole 'rejected the Gift from the very first' thing).

Point is, unless you can hijack an entity and refit it into a generator, and then upload the entire manual to your mind, no. Fun though it might be...
 
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I had a several-hundred-word-long mess to answer this, but the following is probably more succinct: spells that are vaguer in description have (as a general rule) a higher energy cost, and less extra features. More precisely written spells can have a lower energy cost, and more powerful and specialized effects, but might miss something that the brute force of the vaguer spell would slam right into and deal with. The current version of the framework can't run spells that are overly complex, and thus they must be vaguer in design. The improved version could run higher-precision spells.

(basically, if you want to try a spell with the current one, keep it simple and brute-force; if it won't work, I'll say so(in less time than it took me to write this up.))
How does it differentiate between mental brute force(like a sleep spell) and physical brute force?

It seems to me, that projecting linear kinetic or electromagnetic energy would probably be mechanically the simplest, while a sleep spell would be complicated if you wanted to avoid accidentally putting someone into a coma or killing them.
 
How does it differentiate between mental brute force(like a sleep spell) and physical brute force?

It seems to me, that projecting linear kinetic or electromagnetic energy would probably be mechanically the simplest, while a sleep spell would be complicated if you wanted to avoid accidentally putting someone into a coma or killing them.
The sleep spell here isn't really a mental one, per se*- it's basically just a request for the target's brain to 'fall asleep'. The refinement is mainly in restrictions on that sleep(time bindings, emergency wakeup scenarios, the desired meaning of 'sleep' and the like) to further separate it from psychotropic spells**.

*Well, not mental by YW standards, at least(As established earlier, YW people don't run their minds on the wetware). Which is a good thing, since psychotropic wizardries are noted as rather 'tricky to work,' and are known to have backlash even if you have enough onboard energy to power them. When it eventually sinks in that 'yes, their brains run entirely on the wetware', this version of the sleep spell will likely become more expensive**.
** Because between the entire branch of magic that cats apparently have to control dogs with and the 'you can't hit me' field from SYWTBAW, I am thoroughly convinced that 'psychotropic' is entirely subjective.

Meanwhile, on the matter of projecting kinetic or electromagnetic energy? Electromagnetic would work well. Kinetic, on the other hand...

The biggest problem is that the closest you could get to 'projecting' kinetic energy is either giving something near you sudden velocity(the best known form of this being in the linear particle accelerator spell, which is best known for putting holes in whatever you point it at) or mucking about with gravity(which is probably the better option, as gravity and wizardry get along relatively well).
 
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Is it possible to reinforce our clothing? Or to create a stranger or mover effect that would allow us to escape confrontations easily? (Presumably, our base would be well protected, so we'd have somewhere to go.)

A tap-to-sleep wand seems about as effective as a multiple use pepper spray. (There's pros and cons, but a pretty similar level.) If conventional weaponry is affordable and roughly as effective as a spell, we could focus our spell practice on defence.
 
Is it possible to reinforce our clothing? Or to create a stranger or mover effect that would allow us to escape confrontations easily? (Presumably, our base would be well protected, so we'd have somewhere to go.)
Reinforcing physical objects can be done, but most wizards don't see any need to for their clothing- most likely because the unmodified version of several 'standard' shield spells are A) easy enough to run, B) strong on 'tank an ICBM' levels, and C) can be modified and reinforced on the fly with relative ease, and any 'reinforcing' spells would have to be altered or shifted every time you changed your outfit.

If by stranger you just mean unfindable, there are numerous cloaking spells in the Manual. If you mean something like Imp, though? You might as well just imitate the wizards during the Pullulus Incident that stopped a civil war from happening by giving all the potential participants amnesia, if you're going to be mucking about with psychotropic spells anyways.

As far as ease of escape goes? Your transit spell requires little more than a few seconds to activate, and can reach anywhere in-system with relative ease(greater distances can be done as well, but can be difficult without a worldgate).
 
If by stranger you just mean unfindable, there are numerous cloaking spells in the Manual. If you mean something like Imp, though? You might as well just imitate the wizards during the Pullulus Incident that stopped a civil war from happening by giving all the potential participants amnesia, if you're going to be mucking about with psychotropic spells anyways.

As far as ease of escape goes? Your transit spell requires little more than a few seconds to activate, and can reach anywhere in-system with relative ease(greater distances can be done as well, but can be difficult without a worldgate).

I was looking for ease of escape. (Most stranger effects make the user unlikely to be attacked by those affected.)

If we can already escape fights easily, then (very good) permanent defenses for our base are probably most useful. Can we manage those magically in a reasonable time frame?

If so, we seem most likely to get into fights to rescue or protect people. Are there any healing spells that would be practical to use in a fight?

If not, we could be best keeping our business and our cape persona separate, which means offensive spells that don't seem parahuman.
 
Basically the usual suite of Worm stuff is relatively less useful. Bigger element is well...information.

Wizardries are very dangerous with proper knowledge of what they are working with, but in this case the harder part is not accidentally killing people(which always serves the Lone Power even if its to prevent greater evil).

But we're working on that.
In the meantime a tazer that works on anything would suffice
 
:oops:
So! Um.
I kind of forgot that this existed. Not entirely sure how. Also mangled a bunch of things up with it that I'm not entirely sure how to recover from, that wouldn't have come up until a bit down the line.
I could babble on about them, but in the end it comes down to three things. 1) I bumbled a few things at the start. Missed the point of a few wizardries, made a few glaring characterization foul-ups, made a commitment to slightly alter something without thinking on how to do so, etc. 2), I let it sit for too long without making any significant changes to the next part(more than once), and 3) several rules regarding wizardry and powers that I was going by are, on reflection, a bad way to handle it.

Now, there are three ways that Overshadowed can go from here(And if you read A Very Simple Change, yes, I did too. It's still the best way I can think of to handle this), now that classes have started and I'm back on a regular schedule. One is that I could wipe the slate clean, spoiler the old chapters, and start over, with a few changes in character choices and entry point choice variance). Some underlying rules regarding wizardry and the wormverse's past may or may not change. Option two is to just keep on going and hope that it fixes itself. The third is to just leave the quest be; no QM wants to admit it, but whether it goes for ten updates or five hundred, the muse is eventually going to come to its senses and start mocking again.

So now that I've finally remembered that this existed and admitted the above, any preferences?

[ ]One
[ ]Two
[ ]Three
 
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[X]One

Fix fundamental problems and go on.

But I'd suggest fast tracking the early bits somewhat. Repeating the same stretch for the same decisions would be problematic.
 
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