The annoying thing about this quest is:
  • There is a huge flood of comments, especially since turn 6 started.
  • WOG is scattered throughout that without threadmarks.
  • The site's "search" function is pretty terrible.

Most of the scattered WOG is pretty minor stuff all things considered, but a post consolidating a lot of it would be nice.

If we Outlaw Horra hard enough, will his family also be hit?

Hasvir probably will since we have testimony making it clear he is involved. For almost everyone else, it'll depend on whether they stand with him or desert the sinking ship.

More importantly, will the Jarls send their men to assist against the undead army? Kinda a bad look for them to "allow" Horta to be outlawed but not actually do anything to enforce it.

Almost certainly they'll at least send people to check out this sanctum and take care of the draugr. They may also help with actually taking him out, but that's harder to say.
 
@Imperial Fister what are the evidentiary standards at play here regarding Horra being a sorcerer and removing his ability to call upon half the valley's population to back him up? Does this place need to be left standing as evidence or could we, for instance, burn it to the ground on our way out?
 
@Imperial Fister what are the evidentiary standards at play here regarding Horra being a sorcerer and removing his ability to call upon half the valley's population to back him up? Does this place need to be left standing as evidence or could we, for instance, burn it to the ground on our way out?

I think we want to leave it standing both as evidence and so he doesn't know we've been here.
 
The annoying thing about this quest is:
  • There is a huge flood of comments, especially since turn 6 started.
  • WOG is scattered throughout that without threadmarks.
  • The site's "search" function is pretty terrible.
It's pretty easy to run a search on just the QM's comments on the quest, though. It's still a fair bit to dig through, but it's a lot more manageable.
 
More importantly, will the Jarls send their men to assist against the undead army? Kinda a bad look for them to "allow" Horta to be outlawed but not actually do anything to enforce it.
Yeah. The core premise of what "outlaw" means is that if you make it totally legal to rob or murder someone, they can't possibly defend themselves against all the opportunistic people who will try and take a swing at them. So either they die soon, or they go into self-imposed exile for the rest of their lives and become someone else's problem.

A guy with an undead army at his disposal kind of strains that premise to the breaking point. It's not obvious that just any rando can kill him without busting out some saga hero tier shenanigans, so declaring him outlaw isn't really enough.
 
A guy with an undead army at his disposal kind of strains that premise to the breaking point. It's not obvious that just any rando can kill him without busting out some saga hero tier shenanigans, so declaring him outlaw isn't really enough.

The Jarl has already received complaints about the Draugr issue. We tell him where they are and I suspect he'll deal with them...he may even deal with Horra himself (well, along with Steinarr, he's not staying home on that one).
 
It seems pretty clear that the draugr thing was intended as part of the "build up overwhelming force, so that we can possibly stand against Steinarr" plan.

But really? It's simple. We go to the moot. Either Horra is there or he's not. If he isn't there, he won't know what's coming. We take teinarr on a little tour through his workshop, while the draugr are still in cages. Horra is not going to expect that Steinarr's notably violent daughter will have found his sanctum sanctorum and have a key. All sources of concern in that workshop will rapidly cease to be a problem.

If Horra *is* at the moot, then it's even simpler. we leave someone's fylgia back at the farm to pass the word as to timing. Once Horra is found guilty... he won't make it anywhere near his places of power before Steinarr falls out of the sky on wings of flame and just mulches him.

I mean, it's more complicated than that, because the guy is still tricksy, but a plan that's built around somethign *like* that ought to work pretty well, no?
 
I've realized something.

I'll bet that Horra isnt' running on pure viking cultivation. I'd bet he isn't even running on mostly viking cultivation. Based on his youth, he's got a painful load of odrengskapr and took a bunch of hits of nid along the way. It woudl have utterly trashed his orthstirr, and in a way that would make it very hard to recover, especially since he didn't want stories about him getting out. So... why bother? He's been Elsewhere. He'll have cultivated other arts. We don't know what he's got as his primary power source, but it's almost certainly not dependent on orthstirr.

Well... that, and he does a huge amount of crafting.
 
Horra probably doesn't even have any Orthsirr anymore.

However, who knows? What if he's operating on a Nid-based cultivation system? An 'unholy' obverse of Orthsirr-based cultivation?

It could also be a cultivation system that's based on the Persian Ahriman thingies.
 
I've realized something.

I'll bet that Horra isnt' running on pure viking cultivation. I'd bet he isn't even running on mostly viking cultivation. Based on his youth, he's got a painful load of odrengskapr and took a bunch of hits of nid along the way. It woudl have utterly trashed his orthstirr, and in a way that would make it very hard to recover, especially since he didn't want stories about him getting out. So... why bother? He's been Elsewhere. He'll have cultivated other arts. We don't know what he's got as his primary power source, but it's almost certainly not dependent on orthstirr.

Well... that, and he does a huge amount of crafting.

From recent WoG on Sten's cultivation, we know you can only get one internal cultivation system (like our Odr cultivation or his Finnish Henki-based one), but Horra picking up a foreign one is indeed very likely though I think even then he may be restricted in how much of it he can access (Sten's 'power pool' for his foreign magic seems to be only 60 points, Horra may likewise be limited somewhat) and I suspect his actual non-magic stats and skills are still Orthstirr based and thus very sub-par for a Norseman of his age...hence his focus on magic, crafting, and other less direct methods.

Horra probably doesn't even have any Orthsirr anymore.

I don't think it's that easy to get rid of Orthstirr, nor do I think Horra has managed it. He'd likely be a lot more powerful if he had.
 
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So... on mixing and matching cultivation styles.... Internal Power (Odr, Zeal, Henki) is locked. You get one, and once you have that one, you can't get any others. It looks like Magic Stat (Fylgia, Haltija). I think I recall seeing the Christian magic stat somewhere, but I can't find it now.

It looks like External power is not locked, given that Sten has both Orthstirr and Vaki, and it looks like those are equivalent. Christian is Fervor. So... there probably isn't a whole lot of benefit to getting rid of Orthstirr.

I'd guess that the combat-mode awesome (Frenzy, Focus, Rhythm) is similarly not directly locked, but that it's generally going to require whatever the internal cultivation is. Interestingly, shapecrafters mean that Viking frenzy doesn't, but it's unclear what that would cost for other cultivation styles.

- It looks like Rhythm is actually the equivalent of shapeshifting slots? except they stash it in their magic stat rather than their phsyical stat?

...and I don't actually know what Itse is.
 
So... on mixing and matching cultivation styles.... Internal Power (Odr, Zeal, Henki) is locked. You get one, and once you have that one, you can't get any others. It looks like Magic Stat (Fylgia, Haltija). I think I recall seeing the Christian magic stat somewhere, but I can't find it now.

It looks like External power is not locked, given that Sten has both Orthstirr and Vaki, and it looks like those are equivalent. Christian is Fervor. So... there probably isn't a whole lot of benefit to getting rid of Orthstirr.

I think you have to have one secondary to the other. Like, I suspect a true Finnish Cultivator has a lot more than 80 Vaki, with Sten's limited by his reliance on Orthstirr instead, but that they'd also need to spend that Vaki on all the stuff he uses Orthstirr for. Which works out fine if your Orthstirr is good, but means you'd be better off getting rid of Orthstirr and making a full switch if your orthstirr is crippled like Horra's probably is.

I'd guess that the combat-mode awesome (Frenzy, Focus, Rhythm) is similarly not directly locked, but that it's generally going to require whatever the internal cultivation is. Interestingly, shapecrafters mean that Viking frenzy doesn't, but it's unclear what that would cost for other cultivation styles.

I think they probably are locked. Remember you need your fylgja to be unrevealed to learn Finnish Magic, so other lockouts other than actually having Odr are also possible, and I'll bet Frenzy is one of them.

- It looks like Rhythm is actually the equivalent of shapeshifting slots? except they stash it in their magic stat rather than their phsyical stat?

I don't think it's exactly the same being more like hanging spells, but yeah, they seem magic-based...I think Sten may still have shapeshifting as well, so I'm not sure if they're direct equivalents...hard to say.

...and I don't actually know what Itse is.

Itse is probably the Fylgja equivalent (as it basically means 'self', which is what the Fylgja is). Which means Haltija, as the magic stat, is something else entirely. Which may imply that there's a magic stat for Norse Cultivation as well, likely locked behind learning Seidr if so.

I also suspect Rhythm and the hanging spells are Itse based, while efficacy with spells is Haltija, but that's a lot more speculative.

Or maybe Haltija replaces Fylgja and Itse is the undiscovered 'Power' stat for how advanced one's Cultivation is within their current Realm? That would also make some sense, though I dunno how we'd discover ours then.
 
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@Imperial Fister what are the evidentiary standards at play here regarding Horra being a sorcerer and removing his ability to call upon half the valley's population to back him up? Does this place need to be left standing as evidence or could we, for instance, burn it to the ground on our way out?
If you want to use this place as evidence, it's gonna have to be intact.
 
I think Itse and Haltija are the stats that the Fylgja are split into. Itse is a more direct equivalent to the Fylgja while Haltija is probably something magic related but still overall mysterious.
 
Demonic cultivation is usually a thing in Xianxia stories, so maybe he managed to find the equivalent here? Without a teacher probably or he would be much stronger.
 
I think Itse and Haltija are the stats that the Fylgja are split into. Itse is a more direct equivalent to the Fylgja while Haltija is probably something magic related but still overall mysterious.

I don't think number of stats vary from system to system, just specific names and exactly what they do. Which means, I think, that we have a stat we haven't discovered, whether that's magic or some sort of mark of progress within our cultivation Realm, I'm less positive but there's something to discover.

Demonic cultivation is usually a thing in Xianxia stories, so maybe he managed to find the equivalent here? Without a teacher probably or he would be much stronger.

I think, in this universe, demonic cultivation is just practicing a style of cultivation the prevailing system doesn't like. Like, I don't think nid cultivation is real...but a cultivation based on cunning and human sacrifice might be, and the difference would be small to outside observers.

Which is to say, I think 'demonic cultivation' and 'foreign style I don't like' are synonyms and that Horra is indeed likely practicing part of one, much like Sten is practicing the Finnish cultivation style (which isn't demonic because we have similar enough values).
 
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Hey Blackhand, what's Gale's focus? The thing it does better than all the other wind hugareida?
 
Wonder if it would be worthwhile to make an anti Draugr weapon, or at least this specific runecrafted Draugr.

Something like "Return Death to Rest" might be able to dispel the runes and thus instantkill these Draugr. Would be convenient.
 
Hey Blackhand, what's Gale's focus? The thing it does better than all the other wind hugareida?
'Quick deploy, sustained effects. Damage isn't its strong suit, but it is good for battlefield utility. If you want damage you are going to want Hurricane for broad impact, large scale attacks or Gust for small scale, high-speed attacks.'
 
Minor update to the Odr Mechanics Post noting that it precludes other cultivation systems.
Your update is inaccurate. It precludes performing the internal cultivation of any other cultivation system (and thus, in effect, progressing past Tier 0) but it does not preclude you from picking up whatever aspects of their cultivation may be available without it.

Admittedly, this is probably something of a technicality for us, as I expect that most things in most cultivation systems are locked behind internal cultivation, but not all things, or all cultivation systems.
 
'Quick deploy, sustained effects. Damage isn't its strong suit, but it is good for battlefield utility. If you want damage you are going to want Hurricane for broad impact, large scale attacks or Gust for small scale, high-speed attacks.'

Huh. I thought Eric had Gale (that's what you said when we were viting on what option to get from the spar anyway)? He definitely had wind blades as an option.

Your update is inaccurate. It precludes performing the internal cultivation of any other cultivation system (and thus, in effect, progressing past Tier 0) but it does not preclude you from picking up whatever aspects of their cultivation may be available without it.

Admittedly, this is probably something of a technicality for us, as I expect that most things in most cultivation systems are locked behind internal cultivation, but not all things, or all cultivation systems.

As near as we can tell, that really does seem to be everything, but I'll change the wording slightly nonetheless.
 
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