Nemesis [Worm AU]

I mean, shards don't give out all their capabilities even to their first host - Shaper has a whole lot of capability that neither Marquis nor Panacea gained access too. He likely just didn't have a trigger event that gave him access to unlimited biomanipulation. Panacea needed to heal her sister, so she got a power that fit that need (and a whole lot on top of it to put pressure on her to do more than that).
 
I mean, shards don't give out all their capabilities even to their first host - Shaper has a whole lot of capability that neither Marquis nor Panacea gained access too. He likely just didn't have a trigger event that gave him access to unlimited biomanipulation. Panacea needed to heal her sister, so she got a power that fit that need (and a whole lot on top of it to put pressure on her to do more than that).
Also, honestly, Amy almost certainly benefited from the credit Marquis accrued from Shaper, given how impressive he was. Shaper probably thought that it might as well help out Amy, since Marquis wasn't able to because he was in prison.
 
Daily reminder that people in universe know a lot less about the mechanics of parahumans than we do, in this case partly because parahumans don't like talking about their trigger event. She doesn't need "a traumatic story that fits her powers" she just needs "a traumatic story".
And the worst case for somebody noticing her story and powers go together oddly is somebody's Parahuman Studies paper getting shot down by a reviewer using her as a counterexample. The science is nowhere near firm enough for them to deduce she's lying because of the theory not working well.
 
"Second gens trigger easier" is an in-universe misconception, born of the fact that second gen triggers are simply more likely to have a shard watching them. There being more consistency makes it seem like things are easier, makes them stand out, but it's not actually easier for the person triggering.

As well, Glory Girl's trigger being presented as getting off easy is done by Lisa, at a time where she has a vested interest in making heroes look as bad and dirty as possible to the wannabe undercover girl, and we know she lies or makes mistakes of that sort, because she does it again when subtly telling Taylor to go for Brian, who immediately shuts Taylor down and doesn't consider her again until literal life-changing and life-breaking trauma.
No, Wildbow said that it's easier for second gens to trigger: https://old.reddit.com/r/Parahumans/comments/br5l5o/question_about_trigger_requirements/eoaa1rh/

It's WoG and all, so canonicity is your choice, but that does seem to be the intent.

Cauldron and the PRT also runs a few anti-trigger discussion campaigns due to the fact that once people know how to cause trigger events, there will be people who will force it.
People low key know what a trigger event is, as an unofficial thing that shouldn't be discussed about, but there's also too little publicly published studies about it.
Governments throw out disinformation about trigger events so people don't hurt themselves trying it. They're not worried about people gaining powers through it (IIRC, if you know you might get powers from something, it lowers the chances, and giving someone else powers through trauma is a terrible idea).

Wouldn't he have the original, and Amy would have the bud?
This is correct, Marquis has the original. Of course it's the same shard, most buds are not technically distinct from the original.
 
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"Second gens trigger easier" is an in-universe misconception, born of the fact that second gen triggers are simply more likely to have a shard watching them. There being more consistency makes it seem like things are easier, makes them stand out, but it's not actually easier for the person triggering.

As well, Glory Girl's trigger being presented as getting off easy is done by Lisa, at a time where she has a vested interest in making heroes look as bad and dirty as possible to the wannabe undercover girl, and we know she lies or makes mistakes of that sort, because she does it again when subtly telling Taylor to go for Brian, who immediately shuts Taylor down and doesn't consider her again until literal life-changing and life-breaking trauma.
From outside context, Victoria's trigger IS easier than any 1st gen trigger we get told about.
in comparison, without internal thoughts of the person triggering, Vicktoria's trigger appears as shallow (getting fauled in an important game) when in contrast to:
1. being emotionally abused and harassed for 1.5 years and then being shoved into a locker full of disgusting things.
2. your brother commiting suicide.
3. walking in on your mother's newest bf abusing/harassing your baby sister.
4. having your puppy drowned in front of you.
Those are all first gen triggers that Lisa is aware of at the time (bc iirc Brian talked about his sometime early after Taylor joined).

Even WITH Victoria's actual worries, insecurities, and realization that were her true trigger (failing expectations, being ignored during her most important moment, etc) - when compared to most other first Gen triggers, it seems less.....intense. Less despairing.
Especially if you include the things that were going through THEIR minds at the time (being abandoned by everyone for Taylor thinking that nobody cared if she dies, failure to notice her brother's failing mental health and being blamed for it, failure to protect his sister, etc).
 
It's just a matter of 'easier' not meaning 'easy'.

Triggers are still traumatic. Just because a 2nd Gen can manage with a less traumatic event doesn't mean it's not traumatic.

And some 2nd gens get traumatic events that are just as bad as 1st out of bad luck.

Edit: like, if Taylor was 2nd Gen, she'd likely have triggered when her mom died. It's still a really bad thing to have happen to you, when you consider how to her it was like losing both parents with Danny shutting down and all that, but it's not as bad as the locker.
 
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How I had heard it was that first generation events had to be both unique enough to attract the attention of a shard and traumatic enough to trigger, while second gen capes only needed the second.

This then makes second gen triggers seem less severe because all the shards that'd be interested in common and/or barely traumatic enough events would be bonded very quickly leaving only the rarer and more extreme situations for first gens.
 
How I had heard it was that first generation events had to be both unique enough to attract the attention of a shard and traumatic enough to trigger, while second gen capes only needed the second.

This then makes second gen triggers seem less severe because all the shards that'd be interested in common and/or barely traumatic enough events would be bonded very quickly leaving only the rarer and more extreme situations for first gens.
That doesn't work. You become a potential host well before you trigger, when the Corona Pollentia forms, so anyone who can trigger already has the 'attention' of a Shard before they actually do.
 
Precognitive attention is still attention
Most Shards can't actually tell if a given host is going to trigger though. Only that they might. That's why QA picked out Danny first, but then he didn't trigger.

Something like one-in-five have potential, but few actually trigger. Like how Danny was supposed to be QA's host before said Shard switched focus to Taylor due to him going in the wrong direction mental-state-wise for QA's parameters.
IIRC, it's 5 times the number of active parahumans have the potential. So something like 5 percent of people. That's during Worm of course, as the cycle progresses more and more people are supposed to get powers. And less and less non-powered people are supposed to be alive.
 
Victoria triggered from 'being fouled'. But very likely that foul was just the pinnacle of whatever stress from being a non cape in a public cape family and whatever other issues she wqs having.


In regards to Amy and Marquis, it's not actually clear who's the bud of who, is it? Shaper sounds like it's a shard on the level of Administrator rather then a bud imo.
I mean, there's no actual hard rule that a relative of a cape has to be a bud, right? They can just as easily be a first generation cape despite being related to a cape.
 
In regards to Amy and Marquis, it's not actually clear who's the bud of who, is it? Shaper sounds like it's a shard on the level of Administrator rather then a bud imo.
I mean, there's no actual hard rule that a relative of a cape has to be a bud, right? They can just as easily be a first generation cape despite being related to a cape.
My understanding is that in canon a "bud" is just "opened another connection" - They're both going to be the same shard cluster, but just different expressions thereof. As such, Amy and her father can both have "Shaper", but with different expressions and levels of access.
 
Side note, this is a case of Brian lying. Going by the circumstances of his second trigger, his initial trigger was probably more about him also being beaten up by his mother's boyfriend, and viewing himself as weak because of that.
No, the thing that was the straw that broke the camel's back in his 2nd trigger was that Bonesaw made threats towards Aisha, and Brian would be helpless to help her as the situation stood.
If it was as you said he would have triggered before that moment during his captivity.
 
No, the thing that was the straw that broke the camel's back in his 2nd trigger was that Bonesaw made threats towards Aisha, and Brian would be helpless to help her as the situation stood.
If it was as you said he would have triggered before that moment during his captivity.
Right but the key thing is that he was also being tortured, so he was being beaten up and also saw himself as helpless to save Aisha.
 
Right but the key thing is that he was also being tortured, so he was being beaten up and also saw himself as helpless to save Aisha.
Tortured or beaten up would be a mild way to describe what he went through.
Feeling that he was failing to protect Aisha was prob the corner stone with other stressors contributing to make it worse.

Plus, with Lisa's power she would know if he lied.
 
Governments throw out disinformation about trigger events so people don't hurt themselves trying it. They're not worried about people gaining powers through it (IIRC, if you know you might get powers from something, it lowers the chances, and giving someone else powers through trauma is a terrible idea).

If you know you can Trigger, you have a tiny sliver of hope that getting powers will save you, which can prevent you from crossing that threshold of psychological distress.

It's just a matter of 'easier' not meaning 'easy'.

Triggers are still traumatic. Just because a 2nd Gen can manage with a less traumatic event doesn't mean it's not traumatic.

And some 2nd gens get traumatic events that are just as bad as 1st out of bad luck.

Edit: like, if Taylor was 2nd Gen, she'd likely have triggered when her mom died. It's still a really bad thing to have happen to you, when you consider how to her it was like losing both parents with Danny shutting down and all that, but it's not as bad as the locker.

Personally, I like the idea that the Shards don't actually understand humans all that well, so they need a more extreme event for their first host because the host's mind becomes simpler when it is focused on that one, horrible moment. Eden could have planned on refining the first Trigger conditions after landing, as using Paths to do so consumed enormous amounts of time and energy--the equivalent of a star's mass converted to pure energy for each attempt to set the 300 year Path, and a process that took enough time that she wasn't completely done with it when her PtV got damaged while exchanging Shards with Abaddon. The Entities are as close to unkillable as you can be in their full, interstellar travel form, so she was only Pathing from landing to the start of the Cycle, not the time in transit.

How I had heard it was that first generation events had to be both unique enough to attract the attention of a shard and traumatic enough to trigger, while second gen capes only needed the second.

This then makes second gen triggers seem less severe because all the shards that'd be interested in common and/or barely traumatic enough events would be bonded very quickly leaving only the rarer and more extreme situations for first gens.

It's not actually explained why there is a difference in what I've read, though my knowledge of WoGs is pretty spotty. My comment above is what I like as an explanation, that the Shard simply understands humans better after working with the first host, and so doesn't need as extreme an event to make a proper connection.
 
Sure, but why would she tell Taylor that or call him out on it?
It's not about Lisa pointing out, it's about her perspective.
From her pov, Victoria really did have an easier trigger than all of the first gen she knew.
Even if Brian lied (which is still very much in question here, it doesn't fit) the trigger you are describing would still be considered worse than what Victoria went through, with or without internal context.
 
Bugs in general do not just have a central brain, but have a system of nerve clusters called ganglia along its body that automates the body systems. That means a quick enough amputation can leave some bugs parts alive and moving until they starve of nutrients.

I recall reading that a cockroach can live up to two weeks after decapitation, under the right circumstances.
 
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