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Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind : General Thread

Sol Zagato

Sol Zagato

senseless brute


Fernandel said:
Yo, @Sol Zagato, @GhostKaiju. Not to rain on this lovely discussion, but this is getting grossly off-topic.

Isn't there a Nausicaä thread for you guys to take this discussion to?
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GhostKaiju said:
I wish, but I count on one hand the amount of times I've seen that series mentioned on ANY xenforo forum, and nine of them invovle a full out thread.

Still, point taken, discussion ending.
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So, I double-checked... and @GhostKaiju was right, there was no Nausicaä thread.

I have rectified the situation.

So, why does Nausicaä deserve its own thread? It's damn original, and it's epic.

Original? See the pic at top? That's the origin of the FF-series chocobos. It's chock full of enough whacked-out stuff to satisfy even Mobeius.




Plot?

It's a well-thought-out post-apocalyptic world. Half the (remaining) world is about to be destroyed. And Miyazaki will make you care about it.


Now, TO THE ARGUMENTS REMAINING:
GhostKaiju said:
Um, pardon? Spaceships? What are you talking about? There's no evidence of space travel in Nausicaä; it's not out of the realm of possibility, true, but there is literally no evidence whatsoever of there being any to begin with.
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Nooooot exactly a space shuttle.

Considering thise same 'humans' were responsible for killing the Earth in the first place, made giant radioactive slime robot kaijus run around with full sapience and had the brilliant idea of fixing the ruine dworld by bombing it, creatinga nnew species of humans with selective respiratory systems, create an entire ecosystem for them to thrive in with the sole purpose of purifying the Earth;

And then fully expect for every single last bit of life on this new Earth to just keel over and die, the new!human race included, and act confused and outraged when people don't want to die.

Instead of, ya know, just making a fucking domed city or something. Or, ya know, LEAVING THE PLANET TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. But nah, let's just have a horribly convulted plot that will bring on the genocide of an entire SPECIES of Humanity, and the entire biosphere as well. 10/10 idea.

So yeah, Nausicaä killing the blob of old humanity (which is a gestalt consciousness of all the people who killed Earth to begin with) was probably a good thing. Because those fuckers would probably have ruined the Earth.
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Haha, no. All the obviously engineered, slightly superhuman people who have LIMITED REGENERATION (see Kurotowa over several chapters) are going to die off because (spoilers) if nothing is done. Getting rid of the successor humans and their tech cache does nothing but screw over the possiblity of hope on earth.

Much morally equivalent to inflicting humans with a slow disease that will inevitably eradicate them, in my book.
 
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Sol Zagato said:


Nooooot exactly a space shuttle.
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… Huh. Where was this? Because this is the first I've ever seen of this, and I thought I read all of the Nausicaä mangas. Also, it's mere existence suddenly makes me think of the Nausicaä/DUNE connections in a much wider scope then before...

But anyways and again, if they have spaceships that allow them to just fuck off to outer space, why make a big deal of Earth and just leave? And yeah, I know, 'but it's Earth!', so fucking what, those fuckers are perfectly content to play with this planet and its biosphere like fucking moulding clay and were perfectly content with letting numerous species die out and watching the entire planet shit the bed. They can't just do that kind of stuff and still prattle along about how much they care for the planet.

Sol Zagato said:
Getting rid of the successor humans and their tech cache does nothing but screw over the possiblity of hope on earth.
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Okay, either I'm reading this wrong or you and I agree that destroying NEW!Humanity (the species Nausicaä is a member of) is a bad thing, since they are technically the successor race (old!humanity exists only in a fucking blob and maybe as the forest people (I think? I never really understood what was with them)... Are we just arguing about the same point now?


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Anyways, here's some awesome fanart I found of a hypothetical live-action Nausicaä film that follows the manga more closely then the film did (which, to be fair, was made before the manga was even finished):
 
The idea that Nausicaa doomed humanity by destroying the tomb is based on the idea that new humanity is somehow not smart enough to figure out a solution on their own; which is not at all established in the setting. Even given the tomb had the most concentration of knowledge we know of at least one other location where similar knowledge survives (the farm) and we have no reason to believe that the people of new humanity are mentally incapable of resolving their issue.

Plus, of course, evolution has a way. The old humans designed the new humans to die off. But if the new humans can survive long enough than its possible they could simply evolve the required lungs to breath the cleansed air. One of the keys of he entire saga is that in many ways the forest and the insects and the humans were not living up to old humanity's expectations and were, instead, evolving and changing in ways the tomb guardian did not foresee.
 
The forest people are one of the different possibilities presented to Nausicaa as she journeys. Specifically, the forest people represent the idea of abandoning technology altogether and subordinating yourself to nature- they use no tools or techniques that would rile the Sea of Corruption against them. Miyazaki, and Nausicaa, respect this point of view without agreeing with it.

I think it's much easier to go with what Miyazaki himself considers the more developed approach of Mononoke-hime, which has a much clearer divide. On the one hand, you have San, who lives essentially as an animal. On the other, you have Jigo, who views the world as essentially hierarchical. In between, you have Eboshi and Irontown, who view nature as subordinate to humanity but humanity itself as basically equal. In the end, there's no pure solution, but there's the hope that humanity can eventually come to respect nature as an equal too.

So in Nausicaa, this conflict is less clear because Torumekia, the stand-in for Irontown, is not really egalitarian. But the basic argument, that humanity can't subordinate itself to nature, nor should it view itself as above nature, is still present. Which is why Nausicaa rejects the "master" of the garden and the "master" of the crypt. Also noteworthy is the idyllic nature of the twin "hometowns" and the fact that the heroes never return to them.
 
Bakustra said:
The forest people are one of the different possibilities presented to Nausicaa as she journeys. Specifically, the forest people represent the idea of abandoning technology altogether and subordinating yourself to nature- they use no tools or techniques that would rile the Sea of Corruption against them. Miyazaki, and Nausicaa, respect this point of view without agreeing with it.
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The forest people are though the ones who would have no place in purified land. Like the people of Eftal and Torumekia will try to survive always. But in the books the forest people know, that they cannot survive at the heart of the forest - but their reaction to that is a collective shrug.
 
Gladi said:
The forest people are though the ones who would have no place in purified land. Like the people of Eftal and Torumekia will try to survive always. But in the books the forest people know, that they cannot survive at the heart of the forest - but their reaction to that is a collective shrug.
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The purified land is directly connected to the psychic vision of the afterlife Nausicaa experiences. It's a thing that exists in the remote future, or after death, rather than a thing which exists now. Miyazaki, Marxist as he is, has Nausicaa outright reject the idea that life should be lived in slavery and brutishness now for remote gain in the future.
 
Bakustra said:
The purified land is directly connected to the psychic vision of the afterlife Nausicaa experiences. It's a thing that exists in the remote future, or after death, rather than a thing which exists now. Miyazaki, Marxist as he is, has Nausicaa outright reject the idea that life should be lived in slavery and brutishness now for remote gain in the future.
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As I remember it, there are already purified areas deep in the forest.
 
So how does the movie stack to the manga?

I remember a bit of the movie.
 
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