Native American and Pacific islander civilizations in fantasy settings.

[Aztez Fan]

So while its common for people to make stories of modern places or states getting ISOT'ed into ether past or fantasy settings and vis versa. Along with Medieval European states. But what if we did this, mainly with fantasy storys, with Native American and Pacific Islander civs. Im talking the Aztecs, Inca, Mayans, Iroquois or Hawaii to name a few getting setting into other settings. It would be an interesting change of pace and would the culture clash alone would be very interesting to witness. Say dropping the Incan empire into the Witcher or Tenochtitlan in Game of thrones. Heck lost of fun could be had with just yeeting the entire area into another world so with say game of thrones once more with that one Stark who went west could discover the America's but by another name. Theirs so much you could do with this that isnt done that id like to see a more in-depth discussion about it. Id like to see if others have similar thoughts to my own and have ideas they would like to throw out there. And dont be shy about mentioning any tech gap, because we all known that the tech gap in most cases doesn't really matter when all you got are people fighting in melee. A heavy cub is still going to kill you even if your wearing plate armor.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

And dont be shy about mentioning any tech gap, because we all known that the tech gap in most cases doesn't really matter when all you got are people fighting in melee. A heavy cub is still going to kill you even if your wearing plate armor.

Click to shrink...

A more advanced army can butcher much larger ones quite easily with the right formations and geography. I don't see Aztecs doing too well against pikes, and lack of Aztec cavalry is going to be crippling.

 

[Aztez Fan]

A more advanced army can butcher much larger ones quite easily with the right formations and geography. I don't see Aztecs doing too well against pikes, and lack of Aztec cavalry is going to be crippling.

Click to shrink...

Like wise the Aztecs themselves learned very quickly how to counter cavalry and became brave to the sound of gun fire. You can be less advanced and still come on top. Its simply a case of if the people wizen up and get create to find a solution to those issues. Wither by getting braver to negate a charge or scary sound of gun fire for the Aztecs. Or by taking advantage of your environment to limit your foes like the Inca who fought the Spanish in the their mostly mountainous home land with not only made horse very unreliable if not useless. But yes unless such creative is implemented, which the natives tended to be very good at historically, they would lose very often. Although war isn't always a given.

 

[Alane1]

Heavy armor though can make a difference in survivability at least judging what I know from 17th century warfare in the Virginia colony..

The 17th century Virginia colonists made heavy use of a variety of heavy armor against the forces of the Powhattan, not just plate cuirasses and chainmail(though chainmail was sometimes seen as problematic as sometimes the reed war arrows used by the Powhattan would sometimes splinter and cause harm though the mail) but even armors considered outdated in 17th European warfare like brigandines and coats of jacks also saw a heavy use in the colony.

Also shields called targets saw heavy use at least in the first half of the 17th century as beyond close quarters combat targeteers were deployed used to protect the shot from incoming arrows though generally it the use of armor and weapons such as swords, halberds, bills and Partisans that often carried successful battles rather than firearms though cannons were extremely useful as apart of defensive works.

 

[Cybandeath]

Right for pacific islanders, I can easily see them dominating in navy, they had some REALLY long-distance sailing capabilities compared to anything generally medieval and would possibly be the only ones going around able to go around between multiple or certain continents depending on the distance. They would also probably end up takeing a place as inbetween merchants sailing around with exotic luxury goods if mainly because of the cargo limits on many of the ships they used. In the process of this, I can see them picking up things here and there from various civilizations and groups as they trade with them and adapting things for their own use. Of course if they aren't still a island civilization depending where they pop up I feel they would be crushed and conquered before any of that happens but I doubt they would even bother going anywhere if they not at least coastally nearby to at least one continent.


You dont find fantasy Hawaii, Fantasy Hawaii find you.

 

[Fabius Maximus]

Don't forget that historically, these groups were really dammed fast when it came to adopting new ways of doing things. In the real world, the twing smacks of the pandemics and the fact that they pretty soon faced an overwhelming enemy in terms of population and industry resulted in their losing.

but an ISOT where that doesn't happen? You'll see native Americans adopting armor, guns, and probably many tribes going the Cherokee route of adapting a wide range of practices. So the longer there is peace, or at leatsnot outright war, the closer any technological gap will get.

 

[Aztez Fan]

Anouther fact is that while the natives never did have many live stock, most of that could have been having died out in the ice age and such, they did have very good produce that can support huge populations. Corn, potatos, yams are just a few of the staple foods these civilizations cultivated that allowed them to have cities with populations that rival many European ones. Tenochtitlan was after all the largest known city in all of of the Americas, with somewhere around 200,000-400,000 people living there supported by floating farms and clean water from aqueducts. The Inca by contrast where massive in their own right, and through unmatched skill created a farming trace system so effective that they had enough surplus to not only feed just about everyone, but a state mandate that made sure enough was stored away as a reserve incase something did go wrong further increasing the population to a shocking 10 million before that number got sent into oblivion by plague and Spanish conquest. Food in the Inca empire was a right to its people mandated by the state, not something that can be bought with currency...which the Inca didn't really have to begin with.

Which brings a good point, these civliations dont have the same idea of what currency means, and in the Inca's case didnt even have or need one. Add in the amount of natural metal they had wealth they just dont give a crap about other then for religious reasons and how it looks means the culture clash and envy of any neighbors is going to be massive. Castlery rock has nothing on the amount of Gold, silver and Platinum these the Aztecs and Inca had. So would be fun to see the these cultures realise that they could just...buy everything they wont from their new neighbors with a few bags or charts of gold, silver or jade. This does mean they have a Massive target painted Gold on their backs, but hey thats just a risk all civs have when they got something everyone else wants.

 

[Yama951]

Another addition would be South East Asian cultures. The Mandala Model of politics used in South East Asia is an interesting take instead of other political systems to use in fantasy.

 

[Eliar]

Would be interesting how Mesoamerican cultures or the North Americans got along with ye classic elf/wood elf civs.

 

[Alane1]

That would likely depend on the said groups in question I'd imagine as well as what sort of elves they are dealing with though any native American or pacific islander civilizations ended up with lets say the 'fair folk' sort of elves as neighbors would likely have issues relating to that given as at best they would be dealing with powerful magical beings who main weakness is cold iron and at best are operating on orange and blue morality and at worse are actively malevolent.

 

[Baron Steakpuncher]

In a Practical Guide to Evil, the Deoraithe are Irish themed native americans (the main character is half-deoraithe) who in the past suffered genocidal persecution by the Elves, forcing them into the edges of a forest where they were once the masters. Despite this, they form one of the key power blocs in Callow, the kingdom where APGTE is set.

 

[SneakyWalrus]

Reviving this based on a series of art pieces that reminded me of this topic:

Elves of the Southern Chains by ChangingHand: