napoleons 8 days on the Danube

c.j. · Jan 31, 2018

so in case you're confused on what im talking about this in particular is about the bavarian campaign during the war of the fifth coalition, in particular when the austrian emperor launched a surprise campaign against napoleon and his germany allies in the rheinbund. The rapide attack nearly took out bavaria and split napoleon's scattered and disjointed corps, but in a campaign napoleon considered the finest in his entire carrier "those 8 days in april" he nearly surrounded and captured what was actually the intere austrian army ( i know there where other armies in italy and poland but this where at best half hearted armies how's only reson austry thout thay had a chance was because members in the austrian court where living in a fantasyland, no i really wish i was kidding there). but i only said nearly, archduke charles managed to get his army out of the insercalmint but it was very closes (even if he did get his army in that position to begin with( he gets a pass scenes he ,along with anyone with a modicum of military scenes, opposed the war from the start and the only way he could have won was to attack hard and fast in order to convince other nations to help, even if he did not have the army quite capable enough to actually pull it off, but like i said fantasyland) .

but i'm curious sv, what if napoleon had surrounded the austrian army on the danube, instead of the least known part of the least known of all the coalitions it was instead napoleon's greatest triumph. instead of having a stinging defeat at aspern-essling and an extremely bloody victory at wagram we instead have the austrian army over extend and be captured (sort of like ulm i sapoos), would it have change the course of the napoleonic was much? would russia try antagonizing napoleon if instead of his invincibility shaken by this war its reinforced?

stevep · Jan 31, 2018

c.j. said:
so in case you're confused on what im talking about this in particular is about the bavarian campaign during the war of the fifth coalition, in particular when the austrian emperor launched a surprise campaign against napoleon and his germany allies in the rheinbund. The rapide attack nearly took out bavaria and split napoleon's scattered and disjointed corps, but in a campaign napoleon considered the finest in his entire carrier "those 8 days in april" he nearly surrounded and captured what was actually the intere austrian army ( i know there where other armies in italy and poland but this where at best half hearted armies how's only reson austry thout thay had a chance was because members in the austrian court where living in a fantasyland, no i really wish i was kidding there). but i only said nearly, archduke charles managed to get his army out of the insercalmint but it was very closes (even if he did get his army in that position to begin with( he gets a pass scenes he ,along with anyone with a modicum of military scenes, opposed the war from the start and the only way he could have won was to attack hard and fast in order to convince other nations to help, even if he did not have the army quite capable enough to actually pull it off, but like i said fantasyland) .

but i'm curious sv, what if napoleon had surrounded the austrian army on the danube, instead of the least known part of the least known of all the coalitions it was instead napoleon's greatest triumph. instead of having a stinging defeat at aspern-essling and an extremely bloody victory at wagram we instead have the austrian army over extend and be captured (sort of like ulm i sapoos), would it have change the course of the napoleonic was much? would russia try antagonizing napoleon if instead of his invincibility shaken by this war its reinforced?

If he had had the crushing victory you mention rather than the OTL hard fought one I suspect it wouldn't have made a massive impact. Although possibly if the resulting peace treaty with Austria had been less harsh as a result possibly? Could be unforeseen butterflies like if the Walcheren operation hadn't gone ahead because of the earlier Austrian defeat Britain has more troops for the peninsula and Napoleon has a few more ships.

I doubt it would avert the war with Russia as there was already trouble brewing over Napoleon's treatment of Oldenburg for instance and the problems caused by the continental system. Russia was just too big a power to puppetise as Napoleon wanted while also with Austria's defeat Prussia started to emerge as the primary centre of German nationalism. Also there is the Spanish ulcer not only draining manpower, money and morale but an example of the possibility of resisting Napoleon, albeit in Spain's case at a huge cost. Napoleon could have handled things better with Russia to pick a war more favourable to him by goading Russian into a dow but as the assorted other nations learn some of the lessons of how to fight the French and the latter's quality declined sooner or later his empire, without a major personality change, is likely to fall.

c.j. · Jan 31, 2018

stevep said:
If he had had the crushing victory you mention rather than the OTL hard fought one I suspect it wouldn't have made a massive impact. Although possibly if the resulting peace treaty with Austria had been less harsh as a result possibly? Could be unforeseen butterflies like if the Walcheren operation hadn't gone ahead because of the earlier Austrian defeat Britain has more troops for the peninsula and Napoleon has a few more ships.

I doubt it would avert the war with Russia as there was already trouble brewing over Napoleon's treatment of Oldenburg for instance and the problems caused by the continental system. Russia was just too big a power to puppetise as Napoleon wanted while also with Austria's defeat Prussia started to emerge as the primary centre of German nationalism. Also there is the Spanish ulcer not only draining manpower, money and morale but an example of the possibility of resisting Napoleon, albeit in Spain's case at a huge cost. Napoleon could have handled things better with Russia to pick a war more favourable to him by goading Russian into a dow but as the assorted other nations learn some of the lessons of how to fight the French and the latter's quality declined sooner or later his empire, without a major personality change, is likely to fall.

Ya, that was what I was thinking as well but I was curious about a second opion.