Maybe you offended some cosmic power; maybe you tripped in the shower. Either way, awareness...
Muv-Luv: Try Again (Muv-Luv/Armored Core for Answer)
- Thread starter Thermidor
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User Total Thermidor 2
1.0 - Command Selection
Maybe you offended some cosmic power; maybe you tripped in the shower. Either way, awareness returns slowly, considering that you're lying face first on a metal floor somewhere.
Arms and legs like jelly, you try to get your limbs under you to stand. You manage to get two hands and a leg off the ground only to lose balance and go sprawling again, head swimming in a combination of pain and nausea.
Flailing, your hands manage to find a chair. Its cool metal arm serving as leverage, you manage to pull yourself into a sitting position on the floor. The room you're in is a forest of screens and displays, seats neatly arranged around you, lit only by the dim glow of electronics. Alone in the quiet, you gingerly lift yourself into the center chair. Blinking away spots from your vision, your heart begins to race. You have no idea where you are. Is this a kidnapping, a prank gone wrong?
You jump in your seat as one display at the front of the room light up brightly, forcing you to again clear your vision from the light. Its idle screen has been replaced with a wireframe image of East Asia, most of which is glowing red, like a roaring inferno. A bright crimson tendril lashes out towards Japan, until now a dull green. You stare at the now static image in confusion. What was this?
The oppressive silence was suddenly broken by a sharp rush of static as speakers concealed throughout the room made themselves known. A cacophony of voices issue forth, you can only make out a few over the sudden din.
"Hostile forces advancing on defense line seven at brigade strength. Estimate contact in ten minutes. Heavy metal cloud density at acceptable levels."
"This is Wyvern Flight, we are heavily engaged and in danger of being overrun. Requesting immediate relief."
"Ah, help me! Help m-"
The remaining screens have begun to come alive now, a riotous collage of images arrayed before you. One shows a giant animal, like a demented crab with bludgeons in place of its claws, easily bashing its arms through a tank. You don't want to know what the crimson stains decorating its carapace are.
Another shows a stream of civilians, panic in their eyes, hurrying down a deserted street. The night sky above them is painted with the light of explosions and the faint glittering of laser beams.
However, perhaps the most intimidating image is the one which has replaced the wireframe on the center screen. It's the same overhear view of Japan, only it's now a satellite photo. Even at this distance, from low orbit, you can make out the sea of blue and purple carapace which is still rising out of the Sea of Japan. A row of pale text is visible on the bottom of the image.
"It is July 7, 1998. Over a million BETA have crossed the Tsushima Strait and made landfall in Kyushu, Japan. The island will be overrun in approximately 48 hours without intervention. We expect a command performance."
[] Endra class - Gundam UC
Complement:
Notes:
[] Rockies class - Gundam X
Complement:
Notes:
[] ARMD class - Macross
[] Motherwill class - Armored Core for Answer
Complement:
Notes:
[] Photon Power Laboratory - Mazinger Z
Armament:
Complement:
Notes:
Replace the options above with three new entries from the selection table.
=\\//=
Try Again. Feels like that has more than one meaning nowadays.
That said ask any questions about the selections you may have, I'll do my best to answer them. I'll also post some comparison and analysis of the specific options for this vote tomorrow.
Arms and legs like jelly, you try to get your limbs under you to stand. You manage to get two hands and a leg off the ground only to lose balance and go sprawling again, head swimming in a combination of pain and nausea.
Flailing, your hands manage to find a chair. Its cool metal arm serving as leverage, you manage to pull yourself into a sitting position on the floor. The room you're in is a forest of screens and displays, seats neatly arranged around you, lit only by the dim glow of electronics. Alone in the quiet, you gingerly lift yourself into the center chair. Blinking away spots from your vision, your heart begins to race. You have no idea where you are. Is this a kidnapping, a prank gone wrong?
You jump in your seat as one display at the front of the room light up brightly, forcing you to again clear your vision from the light. Its idle screen has been replaced with a wireframe image of East Asia, most of which is glowing red, like a roaring inferno. A bright crimson tendril lashes out towards Japan, until now a dull green. You stare at the now static image in confusion. What was this?
The oppressive silence was suddenly broken by a sharp rush of static as speakers concealed throughout the room made themselves known. A cacophony of voices issue forth, you can only make out a few over the sudden din.
"Hostile forces advancing on defense line seven at brigade strength. Estimate contact in ten minutes. Heavy metal cloud density at acceptable levels."
"This is Wyvern Flight, we are heavily engaged and in danger of being overrun. Requesting immediate relief."
"Ah, help me! Help m-"
The remaining screens have begun to come alive now, a riotous collage of images arrayed before you. One shows a giant animal, like a demented crab with bludgeons in place of its claws, easily bashing its arms through a tank. You don't want to know what the crimson stains decorating its carapace are.
Another shows a stream of civilians, panic in their eyes, hurrying down a deserted street. The night sky above them is painted with the light of explosions and the faint glittering of laser beams.
However, perhaps the most intimidating image is the one which has replaced the wireframe on the center screen. It's the same overhear view of Japan, only it's now a satellite photo. Even at this distance, from low orbit, you can make out the sea of blue and purple carapace which is still rising out of the Sea of Japan. A row of pale text is visible on the bottom of the image.
"It is July 7, 1998. Over a million BETA have crossed the Tsushima Strait and made landfall in Kyushu, Japan. The island will be overrun in approximately 48 hours without intervention. We expect a command performance."
=\\//=
Select your command:
[] Endra class - Gundam UC
Successor to the storied Musai class of light cruisers, the Endra successfully modernized the fleet of the first Neo Zeon movement. As the first mass production ship in the Zeon fleet equipped with a Minovsky craft system, the Endra was widely deployed during the Neo Zeon conflicts of the late UC0080s, where it proved a more than equal match for the EFSF's aging Salamis class.
Armament:
Armament:
9 x Mega Particle cannons
4 x missile tubes
4 x missile tubes
Complement:
6 x Mobile Suits
4 x Base Jabbers
Various launches
4 x Base Jabbers
Various launches
Notes:
Minovsky Particle dispersion is indiscriminate, and can greatly harm unshielded electronics at high densities
While capable of independent ascent to orbit, the Endra requires use of a ballute system for atmospheric reentry
Doctrinally, this ship is meant to stay far away from threat forces, as it mounts no dedicated point defense weapons
While capable of independent ascent to orbit, the Endra requires use of a ballute system for atmospheric reentry
Doctrinally, this ship is meant to stay far away from threat forces, as it mounts no dedicated point defense weapons
[] Rockies class - Gundam X
One of the most widely produced land battleships on Earth both before and after the 7th Space War, the Rockies class is intended to provide rapidly deployable basing and forward support for two MS teams. More heavily armored than its peers, the Rockies remains a staple of military forces throughout the post-war Earth Sphere.
Armament:
Armament:
2 x 203mm cannons
Complement:
6 x Mobile Suits
Various conventional vehicles
Various conventional vehicles
Notes:
Maximum land speed of 160 km/h. Just 10 km/h lower than a charging destroyer and faster than all other BETA strains
In addition to overland mobility, the Rockies is also capable of hovering over water, although it is not as stable as a conventional ocean going ship
Designed in an era when the UNE possessed near total military superiority, it has minimal armaments and relies on friendly forces for support
In addition to overland mobility, the Rockies is also capable of hovering over water, although it is not as stable as a conventional ocean going ship
Designed in an era when the UNE possessed near total military superiority, it has minimal armaments and relies on friendly forces for support
[] ARMD class - Macross
The first generation of space carriers built for the UN Spacy, the ARMD served with distinction during the first two decades of Earth's interstellar era. While primitive by later standards, the ARMD class the class still claims on of the largest air wings of any UN ship, with examples in service long after later generations of ships, with two examples of which are still moored to the SDF-1.
Armament:
Armament:
5 x converging beam cannons
2 x heavy anti-ship missile launchers
6 x interceptor missile cells
48 x laser cannons
2 x heavy anti-ship missile launchers
6 x interceptor missile cells
48 x laser cannons
Complement:
108 x Variable Fighters
270 x Combat Spaceplanes
Various launches and shuttles
270 x Combat Spaceplanes
Various launches and shuttles
Notes:
The ARMD itself is incapable of unassisted atmospheric entry without catastrophic structural failure
Conversely, all of its small craft are interface capable, although many will require boosters or additional fuel tanks to return to orbit
Most of the spaceplane complement is unmanned
Conversely, all of its small craft are interface capable, although many will require boosters or additional fuel tanks to return to orbit
Most of the spaceplane complement is unmanned
[] Motherwill class - Armored Core for Answer
Flagship Arms Fort of the Bernard and Felix Foundation, the Spirit of Motherwill remains the largest multipedal machine ever constructed, and one of the few Arms Forts able to match the highly ranked LYNX of Collared. While age has begun to take its toll on these mighty vessels, their military might remains unquestionable.
Armament:
Armament:
6 x 2080mm super heavy sniper cannons
32 x 416mm heavy cannons
28 x 392 cell VLS batteries
4 x 152mm medium cannons
144 x 40mm autocannons
32 x 416mm heavy cannons
28 x 392 cell VLS batteries
4 x 152mm medium cannons
144 x 40mm autocannons
Complement:
130 x Normals and NEXTs
26 x fixed wing aircraft
Various rotorcraft and ground vehicles
26 x fixed wing aircraft
Various rotorcraft and ground vehicles
Notes:
Compared to most other Arms Forts, the Spirit of Motherwill is extremely ponderous. With a walking speed of only some 30 km/h. On the other hand, most conventional obstacles pose little impediment.
Uncorrected design flaws include inadequate compartmentalization around the ammunition bunker for the main guns. Damage to this area presents severe risk of uncontrolled fires, which caused the destruction of the Spirit of Motherwill
The sheer height of the Arms Fort means that its superstructure is vulnerable to attacks even when its legs are behind the curvature of the earth
[] Izumo class - Eureka SevenUncorrected design flaws include inadequate compartmentalization around the ammunition bunker for the main guns. Damage to this area presents severe risk of uncontrolled fires, which caused the destruction of the Spirit of Motherwill
The sheer height of the Arms Fort means that its superstructure is vulnerable to attacks even when its legs are behind the curvature of the earth
The primary airship class of the United Federation of the Pedigo Towers, the Izumo can be found fulfilling every roll from long range patrol and piracy interdiction to frontline combat. Mainstay of the UF Force for nearly a quarter century, its replacement has been proposed several times. However, no competitor has yet been able to match its sheer versatility.
Armament:
Armament:
2 x heavy beam cannons
4 x 8 cell VLS systems
2 x underside weapons bays
4 x 8 cell VLS systems
2 x underside weapons bays
Complement:
18 x Light Finding Operations
Various launches
Various launches
Notes:
Capable of high subsonic flight for an almost indefinite duration, however it does require a large and well prepared strip should it decide to land
A relatively wide turning radius, owing to the Izumo's size, make nape of the earth flight a risky proposition
While standard cruising speed is subsonic, the Izumo is capable of faster and more violent maneuvering when called for
A relatively wide turning radius, owing to the Izumo's size, make nape of the earth flight a risky proposition
While standard cruising speed is subsonic, the Izumo is capable of faster and more violent maneuvering when called for
[] Photon Power Laboratory - Mazinger Z
A world renowned research institute dedicated to the discovery of new forms of energy production, the Photon Power Laboratory was thrust onto the world stage as a defense against the nefarious Dr. Hell and his mechanical armies. However, the genius of Juzo Kabuto and Super Alloy Z proved more than up to the challenge
Armament:
None
Complement:
3 x Super Robots
Various civilian vehicles
Various civilian vehicles
Notes:
While unarmed, the laboratory building is capable of projecting a powerful defensive field powered by Photonic Power
The production of Super Alloy Z is an extremely complex and difficult process. Logistics and spare parts will be hard to come by
Being a building, the laboratory is immobile
[] RerollThe production of Super Alloy Z is an extremely complex and difficult process. Logistics and spare parts will be hard to come by
Being a building, the laboratory is immobile
Replace the options above with three new entries from the selection table.
=\\//=
Try Again. Feels like that has more than one meaning nowadays.
The first iteration of this quest was supposed to get me back into writing on a semi-regular basis, only to fizzle from my end very quickly. I'll do better this time.
Still, in the interest of full disclosure, here are some brief observations before we get started:
1. This quest takes some thematic inspiration from Muv-Luv: Faraway Dawn, so the BETA won't be taking it easy. On the other hand, as the quest name might imply, failure/death will not be the end of the quest.
2. There will be quite a few OCs in this quest, and you either might go awhile between involvement with canon characters or meet those who aren't as prominent in the usual Muv-Luv works. I realize that might be a bit of a turn off for some readers, but I originally chose to do it both because I want to explore different angles and because I thought people wouldn't take well to their favorite characters being killed off (that and some series simply don't have that information - many of the ships on my list never have detailed crews to use). That said, I'll be including a more detailed loadout selection this time, so you'll always have the option to take some guest characters.
3. While it might seem like a good idea to constantly selected the most obviously powerful choice every time, there will be long term benefits to playing the underdog occasionally.
Well, looks like my propensity for lists hasn't gone anywhere at least (or shamelessly reusing my older material).
Still, in the interest of full disclosure, here are some brief observations before we get started:
1. This quest takes some thematic inspiration from Muv-Luv: Faraway Dawn, so the BETA won't be taking it easy. On the other hand, as the quest name might imply, failure/death will not be the end of the quest.
2. There will be quite a few OCs in this quest, and you either might go awhile between involvement with canon characters or meet those who aren't as prominent in the usual Muv-Luv works. I realize that might be a bit of a turn off for some readers, but I originally chose to do it both because I want to explore different angles and because I thought people wouldn't take well to their favorite characters being killed off (that and some series simply don't have that information - many of the ships on my list never have detailed crews to use). That said, I'll be including a more detailed loadout selection this time, so you'll always have the option to take some guest characters.
3. While it might seem like a good idea to constantly selected the most obviously powerful choice every time, there will be long term benefits to playing the underdog occasionally.
Well, looks like my propensity for lists hasn't gone anywhere at least (or shamelessly reusing my older material).
That said ask any questions about the selections you may have, I'll do my best to answer them. I'll also post some comparison and analysis of the specific options for this vote tomorrow.
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Hmmmm, well I'm somewhat torn.
@Thermidor, if we pick the ARMD carrier, are we immune to being sniped out of orbit immediately? I'm highly tempted to use ti if only because it's somewhat closer to parity with stuff in setting.
[X] Motherwill class - Armored Core for Answer
Though I think I'll go with Motherwill. Normals and NEXTs are utter bullshit as far as high speed death combat goes and primal armor could be a hell of an advantage against enemies that prefer physical combat outside of laser classes.
@Thermidor, if we pick the ARMD carrier, are we immune to being sniped out of orbit immediately? I'm highly tempted to use ti if only because it's somewhat closer to parity with stuff in setting.
[X] Motherwill class - Armored Core for Answer
Though I think I'll go with Motherwill. Normals and NEXTs are utter bullshit as far as high speed death combat goes and primal armor could be a hell of an advantage against enemies that prefer physical combat outside of laser classes.
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- Location
- SV's Only Complete Persona Quest
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[x] Endra class - Gundam UC
Though I also considered the Macross choice.
Though I also considered the Macross choice.
[X] Photon Power Laboratory - Mazinger Z
- Location
- in space
[X] Motherwill class - Armored Core for Answer
How is this balanced? What kind of mobile suits do the gundam options have? How effective are all of these different kinds of mechs supposed to be against TSFs and conventional military equipment? Muv-Luv isn't as punishing towards conventional vehicles compared to Gundam.
Endra: How are minovsky particles an advantage unless we intend to fight humans? The advantage I see from the Endra class is that since before the OYW, anti-laser coating was effective enough to make laser weapons practically obsolete. But we don't necessarily have that technology, only the anti-beam coating of our current equipment. It lacking point defense is a major problem. The other benefit is that beam and mega particle weapons make them less dependent on trade compared to options dependent on projectile weapons.
Endra vs Rockies: The Rockies is less mobile and vulnerable to being attacked by BETA moving underground. Gundam X mobile suits are generally inferior to the kind of mobile suits we see by Gundam Unicorn. They have to be
Armored Core and Macross versus Gundam: They have the numbers to fight more than a single battle at a time and their ships have sufficient armament to defend themselves against BETA.
Like what?
- Location
- in space
You both need to capitalize the the X so the vote will count.
I've never run into that problem before but... It has been a while since I quested at all.
- Location
- in space
I might be wrong but Ian better to be safe and have your vote go in then not have it go in.
It's currently July 7, 1998. The typhoon will make landfall in the early morning of July 8, with conditions on Kyushu gradually worsening over the coming hours.
If you pick the ARMD, your starting orbit will not be over any major laser concentrations. You're not getting attacked on the first turn at least.
In terms of MS, the Endra will mostly have a selection of MS from the first Neo Zeon movement, such as the Gaza series, Zaku III and Dreissen. By comparison, the Rockies will have 7th Space War vintage MS, such as the various Daughtress and Jenice variants, along with options for UNE Gundams.
As for effectiveness, I'll talk about that below along with some other opinions on the current options (The ones that have votes at least).
=\\//=
Current Tally:
[X] Motherwill - 3
[X] Endra - 2
[X] Photon Power Laboratory - 2
[X] ARMD - 1
[X] Endra - 2
[X] Photon Power Laboratory - 2
[X] ARMD - 1
Endra / Gundam ZZ
Looking at the Endra, its two main advantages are in the areas of versatility and individual combat performance. UC0080s MS are almost exclusively armed with beam weapons, which present the most effective pound for pound offensive firepower. That, and they cannot be intercepted by BETA defenses. Defensively, semi-transparent coating will provide some defense against BETA lasers, but it's far from perfect (Better that what the locals have though). Using Base Jabbers will also give your individual mecha good flexibility.
Overall, this is probably the most balanced option. Able to reasonably play any role required in the battle space with minimal increases in risk. That said, every other ship exceeds it in some way. You'll also have access to some excellent force multipliers in the forms of Minovsky Particles (against humans especially) and potentially Newtype pilots and weapons systems.
ARMD / Super Dimension Fortress Macross
In comparison, the ARMD and its VFs are probably the glass cannon option from the mecha perspective. The VF-1 is definitely the most lightly armored mainline mecha here, but it is capable of delivering firepower well beyond its weight. That, and being in high orbit will keep your carrier safe at least. Moreover, the much higher number of craft means you can firefight far more effectively. On the other hand, lasers are a far more serious threat due to needing to descend from orbit.
This is a bit more technical option than the Endra. 300+ combat craft is probably beyond the need to micromanage, and you'll be more dependent on your pilots to have a direct impact on any given engagement. Still, there is the potential for an outsized impact.
This is a bit more technical option than the Endra. 300+ combat craft is probably beyond the need to micromanage, and you'll be more dependent on your pilots to have a direct impact on any given engagement. Still, there is the potential for an outsized impact.
Motherwill / Armored Core for Answer
This is obviously the most tanky choice. After all, there are very few problems that cannot be solved by the application of more firepower. That, and a NEXT is amongst the deadliest individual combatants available in this vote (although most of your force will be Normals). Although, it's important to note that the BETA can shoot down all of your weapons. You'll be dependent on volume of fire to out-duel laser groups (Ammo isn't infinite after all).
Properly deployed, the Motherwill is an almost unassailable firebase. And you'll need to plan farther ahead with it, since the AF's tactical and strategic mobility is abysmal compared to the two spacecraft. Finally, while it seems extremely durable (and is), the Motherwill does have a glass jaw to worry about. A few badly placed hits could quickly destroy major parts of the AF if you're unlucky.
Properly deployed, the Motherwill is an almost unassailable firebase. And you'll need to plan farther ahead with it, since the AF's tactical and strategic mobility is abysmal compared to the two spacecraft. Finally, while it seems extremely durable (and is), the Motherwill does have a glass jaw to worry about. A few badly placed hits could quickly destroy major parts of the AF if you're unlucky.
Photon Power Laboratory / Mazinger Z
The micro-manager's choice, the PPL has no mobility and no offensive potential of its own, but does have a small number of extremely experienced pilots with machines whose abilities beggar the conventional mind. You'll need to manage risk quite carefully, since any damage or losses will be hard to replace, but you'll also be able to change the tide of battle in moments.
That, and this is just a plain fun choice.
That, and this is just a plain fun choice.
Anyway. Here are a few brief observations. Forgive me for any incoherence, as this was all done in one go. As we get narrowed down a little bit more I'll do a more thorough breakdown.
- Location
- Puerto Rico
Great so no back up.
Question, of all the choices, which one would be easiest to mass produce later on if we share the tech with other groups?
Wolfund
{Verified Historian}
- Location
- France
[X] Endra class - Gundam UC
Frankly if i'm the only guy for the macross carrier better simply rebrand my vote for the endra class, having a spaceship is more important in mu luv than having a tank the size of a mountain. At worst we can simply throw rock from orbit at the beta and still do massive amount of damage relatively safely
Frankly if i'm the only guy for the macross carrier better simply rebrand my vote for the endra class, having a spaceship is more important in mu luv than having a tank the size of a mountain. At worst we can simply throw rock from orbit at the beta and still do massive amount of damage relatively safely
Ultramandalore
Errant Quester
- Location
- just south of Parts Unknown
[X] Photon Power Laboratory - Mazinger Z
In my opinion we should go with the Endra for being the most balanced choice. The Arms Fort will have to be far away from the battlefield to use it safely.
Lasers will be able to target it unless we hide it behind a mountain or keep it very far away from BETA.
You should edit the first post to "Gundam ZZ" because "Gundam UC" can also mean "Gundam Unicorn".
Mobile suits need sufficient beam firepower or mobility that isn't inferior to TSFs. That means the Geymalk if we have a newtype, Doven Wolf, Dreissen, Zaku III, Gaza-D and Zaku III Late Type. Gundam X mobile suits would have to be post war models or elite pre war models to match the firepower or mobility of ZZ mobile suits. If we survive the first battle we have to worry about the lack of reinforcements, supplies and manufacturing.
Lasers will be able to target it unless we hide it behind a mountain or keep it very far away from BETA.
You should edit the first post to "Gundam ZZ" because "Gundam UC" can also mean "Gundam Unicorn".
Mobile suits need sufficient beam firepower or mobility that isn't inferior to TSFs. That means the Geymalk if we have a newtype, Doven Wolf, Dreissen, Zaku III, Gaza-D and Zaku III Late Type. Gundam X mobile suits would have to be post war models or elite pre war models to match the firepower or mobility of ZZ mobile suits. If we survive the first battle we have to worry about the lack of reinforcements, supplies and manufacturing.
InvaderViceroy
Would you like to make a gamble~?
- Location
- A casino near you
[X] Motherwill class - Armored Core for Answer
Current Tally - It's currently quite close, but I'll go ahead and call the vote tomorrow, just in case there are any last minute changes.
[X] Motherwill - 4
[X] Photon Power Laboratory - 4
[X] Endra - 5
Of the ones that have votes, the Motherwill's Normals are probably the most technologically similar to the locals (NEXTs are a different story though, namely due to Kojima Technology). The UC tech base would be next with Mazinger in last.
To give some hard numbers, the very top of the Motherwill is visible (on a clear day with good conditions, and assuming no terrain obstacles) at a maximum of about 93 kilometers (roughly the same as the Burj Khalifa). By comparison, the highest points of the Endra and Photon Power Lab will be visible at 41 and 37 km respectively.
More realistic numbers are about half of this, and there are terrain obstructions to consider, since the above assumes a straight line of sight. Kyushu is quite hilly, so there will be terrain cover in many cases.
On the other hand, if there are literally thousands of projectiles in the air, the laser classes probably have better things to worry about.
Don't forget that mobility can also be supplemented by vehicles like Base Jabbers or by the carrier itself. That, and there will be plenty of Neo Zeon MS to play with, even some rare models that rarely saw the light of day.
As for limited resources, that's true of every option above.
[X] Motherwill - 4
[X] Photon Power Laboratory - 4
[X] Endra - 5
Of the ones that have votes, the Motherwill's Normals are probably the most technologically similar to the locals (NEXTs are a different story though, namely due to Kojima Technology). The UC tech base would be next with Mazinger in last.
To give some hard numbers, the very top of the Motherwill is visible (on a clear day with good conditions, and assuming no terrain obstacles) at a maximum of about 93 kilometers (roughly the same as the Burj Khalifa). By comparison, the highest points of the Endra and Photon Power Lab will be visible at 41 and 37 km respectively.
More realistic numbers are about half of this, and there are terrain obstructions to consider, since the above assumes a straight line of sight. Kyushu is quite hilly, so there will be terrain cover in many cases.
On the other hand, if there are literally thousands of projectiles in the air, the laser classes probably have better things to worry about.
Don't forget that mobility can also be supplemented by vehicles like Base Jabbers or by the carrier itself. That, and there will be plenty of Neo Zeon MS to play with, even some rare models that rarely saw the light of day.
As for limited resources, that's true of every option above.
SirLagginton
Shadow Cabal Caerbannog Bun-Bun
- Location
- Arrrghhh
[X] Motherwill class - Armored Core for Answer