I'd like to suggest that we ask about what they mean by our people being dominated. Do they think that the people are being forced to serve under tyrants? Have been brainwashed? Willing given up their freedom? We need to know what is actually being said about us.
Alright, closing the vote now that it's no longer deadlocked.
Sabrina is going to talk with these fellows about the possibility of defecting, then try to explain the merchant and so on situation, and from there ask if any priests might be corrupt enough to do this on their own initiative.
Update incoming, please stand by.
Scheduled vote count started by Ghoul King on Aug 10, 2024 at 4:00 PM, finished with 14 posts and 5 votes.
[x]You'll explore the idea that they could perhaps defect -they don't have Burner Worms, one of them seems to want to defect, and none of them seem all that devoted to 'the cause'.
-[x] Tell them that a merchant has been buying 'holy bread' from the priests of Neustadt des Glaubens, and, thinking it was only candied bread, selling them to Dominator lands. And also feeding animals with the bread. People and animals have thus been getting burned alive, and the newborn Brandstifters extinguished wherever they can be found.
-[x] Ask them if they know any priests who would do this. Who would either hate Dominated so much they would profane holy bread to burn Dominated peasants, or be venal enough to sell holy bread to a merchant and not care where the merchant would go on to sell the bread. The merchant claimed that "the folks back in Sables De La Haines love it" and have presumably been devouring them in great quantities. And yet there's supposedly not enough for the citizens of Neustadt?
[X]You'll accept their surrender more properly, have the Workers tie them up, and come back to this topic after... whatever happens with Neustadt tonight.
"Alright, gentlemen-" you start with, an eyebrow going up slightly when all four men startle slightly when you say 'gentlemen'. "-I'm wondering how you all feel about the possibility of simply defecting, and coming to live in the Freelands." You set aside the Scuttler jar, a Worker scooping it up and taking it back to the carriage.
They all go pale, even Mutinous Man, though the Bürgermeister's nephew or whatever he is looks like you just suggested he eat a beloved family pet, eyes bulging in horror. He starts to say something, and then his eyes dart around and the words die in his throat. Hm?
There's an awkward silence, before you shrug and say, "So... no, then?"
There's another long silence (Aside Teo's voice rising enough to be briefly heard from among the trees) at last broken by the Sad Man. "I... don't know what to say, Dame Sabrina."
You frown slightly. It seems like a simple question to you. Certainly, you understand there are concerns, but they are not asking things like 'what about my family'. You don't understand this response. "If you're concerned about leaving behind family-" Mutinous Man snorts, which is not really surprising. "-I absolutely understand that-"
Beardy man is shaking his head and has in fact taken a step back -you're not sure he even realizes he's done so- but it's the Bürgermeister's relative who interrupts you, having apparently found his words. (Or perhaps his courage) "You might as well kill us now." He sounds... betrayed?
You blink a few times at that, feeling like you've missed something. "Pardon?"
All of them -even Mutinous Man!- are nodding their heads in agreement and saying similar things in low enough tones you have trouble making out individual sentences.
Exasperated, you say, "Why would I do that when I'm asking you to come live in my homeland."
Mutinous Man mutters something about 'Teufel's land' and Sad Man says, "Come live in the shadowlands? Working for monsters, never seeing the beauty of a sunrise? What-"
Outright irritated now, you interrupt, "I assure you, the sun still rises over the Freelands." If they didn't, you wouldn't have had to deal with headaches when running day business for Caras. (Also: rude! Caras is not a monster!)
There's another pause, where they're all staring doubtfully at you. Mutinous Man, in his least mutinous tone yet, says in a tone of flat disbelief, "No, it doesn't."
Face: meet palms.
You sigh. "Why on Earth do you think that?"
Your frustration and sheer disbelief at being faced with such a bizarre idea seems to shake their collective confidence a little, but Mr. Bürgermeister's Relative says, "Everybody says it is so."
"Everybody?" you say in a tone of complete disbelief. (You are part of 'everybody', to start!)
Beardy man hesitantly says, "Yes, all who return from the shadowlands. Without exception."
You find that extremely difficult to believe, but suddenly Mutinous Man's eyes widen, his stance goes slack, and he says in a low tone, "Not everyone." O...kay?
The other three sigh, with Beardy Man starting to say in a tone of long-suffering that, "Felix, for the last time, the merchant was so drunk he couldn't even remember which country he was in-"
Mutinous Man -Felix, apparently- is still not looking entirely... present, but interrupts regardless. "No, I'm talking about Ingo."
That doesn't mean anything to you, but the other soldiers look rather more somber. Beardy Man hesitates again, then says, "You know the priests said he was delirious-"
Felix jolts, then in a fraction of a second his frame is nothing but hot anger twisting his face and tensing his muscles as he whirls on Beardy Man, looking ready to come to blows as he shouts, "Those damn priests! They wouldn't let me talk to Ingo! Wouldn't let me see him! His injuries were bad when he came in, but not enough to kill, certainly not if he was being treated like they said! So why did he die?! Why was the funeral skipped?! Why is it all I have of him is a damn letter he would never have written, which isn't even in his handwriting?!"
Mr. Bürgermeister's Relative starts to say, "They told us-"
Felix rounds on him now, "Told us! Told us! Never let us see it was so! Just said 'his condition' was 'too poor for visitors' and left it at that! And now this one-" A finger stabs your way, which is kind of rude but you stay quiet as... whatever this is plays out in front of you. "-is here!"
Mr. Bürgermeister's Relative grits his teeth and hisses out, "Teufel's servants lie!" in a low tone you suspect you're not really meant to hear, incidentally giving you an inkling of why he in particular responded so poorly to your suggestion.
Felix laughs manically for a moment, sounding so unhinged you find yourself scooting away a little -a sentiment echoed in the other men, who reach for their scabbards and then remember they don't have their swords. Then he stops abruptly, turns to face you, rudely points at you again, and says, "The bread. You said a merchant sells it. Did he say where he bought it from?"
You blink a couple of times. Uh. Gosh, it's been a bit. "If I recall correctly, he spoke of buying it direct from the priests. I had the impression he went into a temple or some such? He said he bought it specifically from Neustadt because only priests were willing to sell to him."
Felix grins a bit too widely, then turns to the others. "What did they say, again? 'Generous donations?' From how many foreign merchants passing through?"
"He was a Freelander merchant returning home to Sables De La Haine," you throw in, abruptly remembering that detail. "He mostly brought spices from Commoner lands."
Felix whirls to you, eyes wide. "A Dominated merchant?"
You tilt your head a little, kind of annoyed by that title. "If you must put it that way, yes."
Felix looks more intense and takes half a step toward you. "Was this man about this high-" He holds one hand to his shoulder, which seems about right to you, "-and with a silver earring, just one, in the mark of the Saint of Honesty?"
It takes a little back and forth to establish what this 'Saint of Honesty' is (Some historical individual famous in Commoner territory for being honest to a fault) and more importantly what their mark looks like-
(It's supposed to represent a bone chewed on by a dragon, because supposedly this lady got herself eaten by a dragon because she informed it that it was not at all beautiful when it asked her if she'd ever seen a more beautiful individual. To your eyes it just looks like a rectangle with three triangles inside it)
-plus some picking out some other details like the merchant's manner of dress, but you pretty quickly confirm you're both talking about the same person.
"See!" Felix booms at his grey-faced fellows. "I told you they were a Dominated! Cultivare merchant, pfah!"
The Bürgermeister's relative is just silently shaking his head, mouthing 'no', and Beardy Man's hands have gone to his mouth in apparent horror, but Sad Man finally looks something other than depressed; hopeful. He says, "Then... the priests lied." ("Yes, like I've been saying!" Felix snarks) Sad Man starts laughing and crying, shaking with... joy? Maybe? "The priests lied!" O...kay. Then he suddenly focuses on you. "You said the sun shines in the shadowlands, miss. What else is lies?"
You shrug. "I don't know what you've been told." And have mostly been pretty confused as to what it is Commoners think is going on in the Freelands.
Felix speaks up, "Does Teufel himself walk the Earth in the shadowlands?"
"I still have no idea who this 'Teufel' is supposed to be, frankly. I never heard the name before a Commoner soldier said it a few weeks ago." From context, 'Teufel' is clearly... a bad person? Or something? But it's not like any of the Commoners have explained this to you.
Sad Man says, "You have never heard of the shapeshifting master of darkness?" in a tone of wonder, like this is the best news he has ever heard.
"No! I haven't! I wish Commoners would stop talking like I should know this already!" you say in frustrated exasperation.
What ensues is Felix and Sad Man talking over each other to try to describe a 'man-not-a-man', a being who 'in his true form' superficially resembles a human, but 'too tall', 'too thin', with four forward-curving horns inside his riot of curly black hair, often wearing a broad-brimmed hat to better hide them, claws instead of nails, and a tendency to hide his eyes because 'no matter what disguise he wears to hide among humans, his eyes remain empty pits of infinite darkness, reflecting the evil of his soul'. At least, that's the parts they're consistent about; they also make several contradictory-sounding claims like that Teufel's skin is jet-black, or maybe it's unnaturally pale, or maybe it's a deep red like an apple. So too does Teufel's voice 'boom like thunder, painful to hear', or maybe it's a low and seductive tone, or maybe he just sounds like any regular person and that's the scary part.
This is followed by you patiently explaining that you have never heard anything like this, and Gendarmerie are like... the opposite of parts of this, like how their eyes glow red. So yeah, Teufel sounds like a lie to you; certainly, if he exists, he's not anywhere near your part of the Freelands.
"So the shadowlands are not all Teufel's willing servants?" says Sad Man, who is honestly getting kind of offputting with how cheerful he is?
You resist the urge to roll your eyes. "The Freelands don't have one master, period. The Council is the law of the land overall, and are... 13, if I recall correctly? 13 heads. And mostly the local Gendarmerie administer law and order, and I can assure you that they are not all united." You're going to need to check how well that 'bandits attacking a Shifting Sands fortification' thing went down when you get home...
Sad Man (Creepily-Happy Man?) slams his right gauntlet on the armor of his right shoulder and declares, "I, Konrad Schneider, will gladly come and rejoin my wife and daughter in Estvalee!"
Oh. Oh no. "Ummmm..."
"Yes?" Konrad asks joyfully.
Ooooh boy. "They're... probably dead."
Konrad blinks several times, confusion taking over. "What? Why would that be? Estvalee is quite far beyond where the holy forces march, it was- it was the one good thing about Uta running off with Odilon, that at least she wouldn't be found and punished."
"Yeah... uh... remember how we were talking about merchants selling bread with Burner Worm flesh in it?" You can see the gears turning in the heads of all four soldiers. "Estvallee was infected en mass, and Ca- the Baron was forced to kill them all to prevent the Worms from spreading further. And several people had already died; that's how the Baron learned of the problem."
The Bürgermeister's relative, you finally notice, has been inching away this whole time, and when your eyes meet his he abruptly whirls around and runs -right to where Teo and Ada are, which is to say where the Runners are. You send an appropriate order to paralyze him when he gets closer, and then put the topic out of your mind, focusing on Felix, Konrad, and Beardy Man. Beardy Man is saying, "But- killing those who are blessed? For being blessed?"
You shake your head. "It's not a blessing to burn alive from the inside, unaware you carry a Burner Worm inside you."
Beardy Man is clearly agitated. "But- it's a blessing! And... and even if it weren't, it's not necessary! I know those who have been blessed for 40 years and are more vigorous than their peers not blessed! You just need to observe the rituals and-" Here he falters, face going grey.
You smile without humor. "Yes, you 'just' need to know what prevents a Burner Worm from killing you. Which Freelander children do not know. Nor do Freelander mothers-to-be. Nor, for that matter, do the wild animals that keep getting infected know what to do."
There's a long, long pause here, where all three are taken aback. Felix finally speaks up, "Animals? Blessed... animals?"
Felix is so clearly struggling with the concept you finally say, "I take it the priests said such was impossible?"
Konrad answers your question instead, looking haunted as he comes to grips with the fact that his family is probably dead. "Only humans are supposed to be worthy. Only the chosen ones, at that."
Beardy Man looks broken as he says, seemingly to no one in particular, "They said there weren't enough to go around. That I was ready, but there weren't enough Brandstifters for all the worthy, and I was less deserving than the others..."
You hum thoughtfully, trying to distract yourself from how deeply unhappy all three men have become at understanding all this. "I've been wondering; is any particular priest especially hateful toward, erm, 'Dominators'? Or, I dunno, sufficiently unscrupulous about the faith you'd find it plausible they'd do this in secret?"
Felix shakes his head. "Dame Sabrina, this is not- it is not a rogue." Beardy Man moans something to himself about how he can't believe Felix was 'so right this whole time'. "This- all of this would require many priests working together." Then his expression darkens further. "And that the holy expeditions were also not mentioning things like that the shadowlands are... not."
Okay then. "So... probably all the priests are in on this. And probably all the, er, 'blessed' soldiers?"
Beardy Man's face goes into his hands. "I can't believe Meinolf lied to my face..."
Konrad sinks to his knees, looking crushed under the weight of the truth. "Everyone blessed, and everyone who wished to prove themselves by joining a holy expedition." He covers his face. "I- I may not be able to rejoin my family, but I must away from this regardless."
Felix says, "Agreed."
Beardy Man looks appalled. "I- I'm not like you two-" Then he pauses and looks around. "Where is Wolfram?"
You point vaguely toward Ada and Teo's direction. "If you mean the Bürgermeister's relative, he fled earlier, but he's just beyond those trees, not going anywhere. My troops have him handled."
The three soldiers in front of you take that in, think for a moment, and very clearly decide to not care about Wolfram's fate. Beardy Man resumes what he was saying; "I can't simply leave. I have a wife! Four children! My father is dependent on me! And my brother would be torn up if I just vanished!" Then he starts looking haunted. "I have to go back. Even knowing... I have to go back."
Felix says, "I am not so sure of that." You tilt your head consideringly, while Beardy Man just looks at Felix like he's a lunatic. Felix continues, "The way they- the way they... dealt with Ingo." Beardy Man just looks confused, and you didn't follow that whole thing in the first place so you really don't know what to guess Felix is driving at. "It was always wrong, and now I think they knew he wouldn't keep their secrets, and killed him for it."
Beardy Man stares, while you consider that idea. Killing to keep a secret... or many secrets, really. How ruthless. Beardy Man finally says, "I still have to go back. Even if- even if they will kill me, it will be better for my family."
Hmmmm.
With all this new info, you...
[]Have decided you want to try to focus on dealing with the clergy and similar, minimizing harm to those apparently less in the know. You'll still attack Neustadt de Glaubens, but... more targetedly.
[]Don't want to attack the city at all -not with warriors, that is. You'll attack with words. If these soldiers could be made to see the horrors right under their nose, surely other citizens of the city will be receptive to the same message?
[]Would rather back off entirely and figure out plans back home.
[]Write-in.
(Next update will deal with Ada, Teo, and Wolfram; I considered just rolling that into this update, but it's already long for an MMQ update, and getting Questor responses in between updates is helping me articulate thoughts and whatnot and get things done more properly, so I think spacing things out like this is probably a Best Practice I should engage in more often)
I'm persuadable to other options but for now I think;
[X]Have decided you want to try to focus on dealing with the clergy and similar, minimizing harm to those apparently less in the know. You'll still attack Neustadt de Glaubens, but... more targetedly.
She's got a burner worm, and likely knows enough to keep herself alive. We need to get that information to Caras. Every one of his citizens that learns how these rites works is vastly more likely to survive. Maybe they're forced to emigrate, due to laws, but that's still better than spontaneous combustion.
Secondly, we've got burner worms and people joining us who aren't freaked out by them. If they want, they could become hosts, under Ada's tutelage.
Lastly, if we convince several burners that we aren't evil, they can come back here and publicly call out their priests.
This isn't burning down a town, it's much bigger. This is potentially burning down the lies of an entire society.
[]Don't want to attack the city at all -not with warriors, that is. You'll attack with words. If these soldiers could be made to see the horrors right under their nose, surely other citizens of the city will be receptive to the same message?
-[x] Everybody comes with you. Leave no trace of having taken Ada alive, to whatever extent feasible.
Based on this chapter, the priests are fighting a shadow war. As long as they believe they have control of that information, that's not likely to change. There's an opportunity here to reverse that advantage.
Obviously, this informational campaign will have to be handled delicately. Maybe immediately flinging these folks in front of Caras is not the best option, but we need to get them out of here.
They could stay in our village, as Sabrina's family would be great at explaining how great Caras and Sabrina are. Caras won't be happy, but I'm sure Sabrina can make a good case.
Super interesting chapter, and I'm open to changing my vote.
[X]Have decided you want to try to focus on dealing with the clergy and similar, minimizing harm to those apparently less in the know. You'll still attack Neustadt de Glaubens, but... more targetedly.
I don't think talking is going to work. The priest are in a profession centered around public speaking and convincing people that they are right. The population has been fed constant propaganda, making any people we could convince not speak against consensus. Finally, they are going to be sending shellmen to kill us, because there is no way that they are going to have a good faith argument with us.
Attack the clergy also gives us a chance to loot things from them. Getting some of their holy books and other writings will help with better understanding what we are dealing with. There is still a bunch we don't know.
even if Ada would be willing, something I'm highly skeptical of, I don't really see why we want to pass around horrible death parasites that Sabrina and Caras alike bear extreme hatred and at least for Sabrina disgust for.
Yes these things apparently have advantages if you know what you're doing but that's not really enough of a reason.
even if Ada would be willing, something I'm highly skeptical of, I don't really see why we want to pass around horrible death parasites that Sabrina and Caras alike bear extreme hatred and at least for Sabrina disgust for.
I'd argue by comparison, for even Sabrina's family didn't think her choice in marriage was entirely good.
Those people who join with the gendermain (I can't spell it), are considered prime candidates for going insane. This isn't a privilege, it's a sacrifice at best, as perceived by most people we've talked to so far.
We've seen the worst of the burners, but let's not assume that what we've seen is also the best that these worms can be. Maybe there really is a symbiosis option, just like what Sabrina found with her Caras.
Sabrina sees the good in Caras. I believe see can see the good in Ada and the others, and at least see the tactical benefit to potentially as much information as they represent with effectively no loss in strategic options by waiting a week to attack the town.
Besides, the priests may want Caras to attack the town, now that I think about it. This may be either or both a trap for Caras and a way of upping the tempo of this war.
Sure would be ready to raise an army after an 'entirely unprovoked' attack by the dominators.
[X]Don't want to attack the city at all -not with warriors, that is. You'll attack with words. If these soldiers could be made to see the horrors right under their nose, surely other citizens of the city will be receptive to the same message?
-[x] Everybody comes with you. Leave no trace of having taken Ada alive, to whatever extent feasible.
Yeah, attacking at all sounds like playing into the priests' hands. Surprised at how well the diplomacy/information reveal option worked, really.
Based on this chapter, the priests are fighting a shadow war. As long as they believe they have control of that information, that's not likely to change. There's an opportunity here to reverse that advantage.
Obviously, this informational campaign will have to be handled delicately. Maybe immediately flinging these folks in front of Caras is not the best option, but we need to get them out of here.
They could stay in our village, as Sabrina's family would be great at explaining how great Caras and Sabrina are. Caras won't be happy, but I'm sure Sabrina can make a good case.
Hold on, I wonder what you're picturing when you say you're voting to "attack with words". Because I was picturing Sabrina attempting to publicly announce the priest's misdeeds to the citizens, but you seem to be suggesting going back to Caras with these guys and then... I don't know, conducting an information campaign against them? After talking to Caras about it?
It sounds like you're actually voting for the "back off entirely and figure out plans back home" option.
I'm not in favour of that. It took us several annoying days to get here, it'll take more days to get back, if we're trying to send messages from where Caras is, there's no way we'll get anywhere. Also, I agree with what Lurking Badger said about priests probably being better at public speaking than us. So just announcing their misdeeds... Most citizens won't believe us. They may have doubts in the future, but that's a long term poisoning of their belief against the priests, not something that will produce results immediately. If we could, I'd want to mass produce leaflets or something, written by one of our defected Commoners to be persuasive to other commoners, but I don't think we have time or capability for that currently.
Getting peasantry on our side right now won't work. Priests are in on it. A bunch of soldiers are in on it too, since they've been propagating the lies of the priests about no sun in 'Teufel's lands'. Not all the soldiers, since these guys are soldiers and didn't know, but the elite and most dangerous of them. That means the higher-ups of the military and leadership are working together, that means that even if the populace were immediately struck by the truth of Sabrina's words and rose up to overthrow them... It's pretty unlikely to work. As such, I have to vote for this.
[X]Have decided you want to try to focus on dealing with the clergy and similar, minimizing harm to those apparently less in the know. You'll still attack Neustadt de Glaubens, but... more targetedly.
Caras sent us here because these priests specifically are a problem that has been repeatedly infecting Caras' lands. We need to solve the problem before we go back, and then we can think of how to destabilise and overthrow the lies of Commoner society as a whole. I think we'll decide on exact approaches once we actually see the town and its defences, but my current ideas are along the lines of...
1) Loudly and publicly call out the priests for their crimes in full hearing of the citizens while sending a sneakier force against them.
2) Check with our defectors how many shellmen there are, and figure out if we can take them in open battle. If Sabrina thinks we can, call out the priests for their crimes, and demand they and their soldiers meet you out in the open so that your battle does not affect the citizenry.
3) Sneak into the city with our forces, kill the priests, and then loudly announce to the citizenry exactly why you did it, then depart without harming any citizen who doesn't literally throw themselves at us.
I don't know how viable any of these approaches are, and we may in fact get more options if we manage to get Ada on our side, but these are my thoughts on the situation at the moment.
I guess I kind of am, which I'll edit my vote while I think about it.
I think the priests want a dominator attack. Killing the priests, killing the civilians, I think the priests will have a plan for either outcome. They'll claim anything we say is lies, and that such words are just an attempt to sow confusion.
What we say in this town is unimportant, because the priests will control the message sent to every other town. They seem to want a full scale war, a short and victorious war.
I think that severely misses the point that Caras is apparently exceptionally socially inept/reluctant by Gendarme standards, and the townsfolk mostly know little of what goes on in other towns in the same province. For example those human soldiers under Freewheeling Raptors were clearly already familiar with idiosyncrasies of what to expect out of the Gendarme in a way that Sabrina's family- under the dude who never visits his vassals, of course- were not.
Sabrina's family is thus an example not of the typical Freelander perspective, but a very specific perspective under the guy who doesn't understand such concepts as 'bandits hurt my bottom line' let alone anything more complexly human.
They... have been trying to beat Caras for to all appearances generations. Their militant stance towards Caras precedes the Burner Worm based faith.
Yes they want a victorious war but it's unclear if they could meaningfully press Caras's resources. We literally recently destroyed significant efforts to siege Caras. In all likelihood they either have other concerns that also tie up resources or else are as an overall polity unable to actually challenge the Freelands collectively, though obviously if they wreck Caras hard enough he needs the Council to like, send Freewheeling Raptors to help or something that's a big loss to be avoided. Nevertheless...
Why, given the likelihood they can't really beat Caras and are trying as hard as they realistically can, would you expect it to be disfavorable to us for them to whip the populace into more of a frenzy, if they can even manage it, especially when a big part of what seems to limit their current aggression is the need to make sure those going are willing to lie and say 'oh yeah no sun in shadowlands' etc?
This really doesn't seem like a realistic concern.
(a much bigger reason to consider not attacking would be the risk that the defenses would be more formidable than the offenses, but I'm skeptical of that. It's generally plausible given what I just laid out, but doesn't seem likely)
For reference, a more detailed plan of action will be voted on in the Ada/Teo/Wolfram update; the current vote is to set a tone for the immediate future, first and foremost. ie 'attack with words' is 'next update will involve actually voting on the form this counterpropaganda action will take'.
Also yeah, 'attack with words' is 'stay here and do that immediately', whereas 'go home' can totally be '... and then start plans to churn out hundreds of leaflets and figure out how to get them delivered to Commoner cities and all'.
Also also: I won't hard-veto plans resembling 'let's see if we can be a united Gendarmerie/Brandstifter country!' but I should note that any kind of voting hoping for that result is likely to be disappointed: at this point, Sabrina is not simply a vote-puppet, but a sufficiently developed character with strong feelings on this topic that it's difficult to see how that outcome could plausibly occur without me just ignoring her characterization.
That said, I was pretty sure, all those years ago, that this arc was unavoidably going to turn into 'Warlord Sabrina metaphorically bathing in the blood of her enemies', and have been pleasantly surprised that voters kept finagling things so Sabrina prioritizing info-gathering and whatnot lead us to the circumstance where I feel the need to make this comment; 'I won't hard-veto' is not code for 'and if you try I will frown and punish the attempt'; if Questors manage to pick votes that subtly maneuver Sabrina to a point where it's in-character for her to consider any such plan, I'll be surprised, but not upset.
That said, I was pretty sure, all those years ago, that this arc was unavoidably going to turn into 'Warlord Sabrina metaphorically bathing in the blood of her enemies', and have been pleasantly surprised that voters kept finagling things so Sabrina prioritizing info-gathering and whatnot
I feel like Sabrina (and the voters) being so information focused is a natural consequence of her situation. While I like Caras and Virmire, they can be really bad about explaining things fully which required us to ask more questions. This is then combined with Caras' obliviousness to things outside of his task of killing Burner Worms and Shellmen, forcing Sabrina to explain things and figure out what is actually happening.
I find it more likely for Sabrina to become a combination of diplomat/spymaster/scientist to balance out Caras' martial focus and Virmire's stewardship.
Right now, to me, 'they' looks like a subset of the priests, and not the entire country.
To me, sure Caras is inept, but he's simultaneously also not actually at war with another country or even another province. He's dealing with a rogue terrorist/militia group trying to goad him into providing the appearance of being the one to instigate a war.
Generally, I'm very loathe to do what my enemy wants. Even more so, I don't want my enemy to learn how I recognized their deception.
All that said, maybe the entire priesthood is in on this, but that's not the impression I've gotten.
"Oh, usually I'll have a Gatekeeper nail in the paper while it's inspecting the village anyway. If it's urgent and I have Runners anyway for some reason -I used to maintain a stable of them, before the Shellmen began incorporating Burner Worms into their forces- then I'll have a Runner handle the task, particularly if it's daylight of course, though I... usually don't bother if it's daylight. If the Runner goes down during the day, I won't know until nightfall, and I certainly won't know what happened."
"So why are the Common People fighting us, anyway?"
Caras seems thrown once more, but responds gamely enough. "As far as Virmire ever gathered, it was... what did he call it?... ideological? They want us dead, and they consider anyone allied with us to deserve a similar fate." He pauses for a moment. "I expect they'd be perfectly happy to take our lands for their own use, but as far as I'm aware it's not actually a motive. They just hate us on sight. I never understood why."
The Common People have been fighting us since before they began using burner worms militarily. If it's 'a subset of the priests', it's a subset that can reliably convince people for decades straight to invade their neighbors on purely ideological terms.
It's perfectly reasonable to guess that there's a specific faction particularly interested in fighting us- but that specific faction appears to be, y'know. The current ruling power entire.
I guess I kind of am, which I'll edit my vote while I think about it.
I think the priests want a dominator attack. Killing the priests, killing the civilians, I think the priests will have a plan for either outcome. They'll claim anything we say is lies, and that such words are just an attempt to sow confusion.
What we say in this town is unimportant, because the priests will control the message sent to every other town. They seem to want a full scale war, a short and victorious war.
I believe you are giving the priests too much credit. Based on what the soldiers have said about them, I don't think they're trying to get Caras to attack. I believe they're corrupt, venal, and greedy idiots. They sell holy bread to merchants in return for 'generous donations' and believe it won't bite them in the ass, because who cares about dominated peasants? They're getting tons of money. And they believe they're safe in their stronghold because they live in a world where everyone is kissing their asses to get blessings.
We are not being lured to start a war. We are the consequences of their actions, come home to roost. If there are priests in other cities, I don't believe they know what the priests in Neustadt are doing. They may still take our attack as an excuse to ramp up the war, but they were probably looking for any excuse anyway.
Caras sent us here to deal with the problem of our citizens repeatedly getting infected by burner worms. We've found the source of the problem. If we kill all the priests, any plans they had are moot. I do not believe fighting them with words will work, I'm just willing to include it as a distraction/method of getting them to come out and face us.
We are Caras' problem solver. I want us to solve this problem rather than go home and think about it more. We kill the priests and stop the source of the infection, then go home and manage the aftermath, see if we can counter the propaganda at that point. I know our actions here may make that more difficult, but I'm willing to take that penalty in return for at least stopping the source of the infection here.
[X]Have decided you want to try to focus on dealing with the clergy and similar, minimizing harm to those apparently less in the know. You'll still attack Neustadt de Glaubens, but... more targetedly.
Quite frankly, it would be a dereliction of duty not to do what we can to stop the priests from continuing to send burner worms into our lands. We've already lost an entire town to it, and countless others.
At the same time, I don't see how we could do a campaign of words. There's no way we could contest an opponent that is far more experienced, specialized in public speaking, and vastly outnumbers us. All while fending off their hostile forces...
Do remember that these soldiers only listened to us after surrendering and becoming a captive audience.
[X]Have decided you want to try to focus on dealing with the clergy and similar, minimizing harm to those apparently less in the know. You'll still attack Neustadt de Glaubens, but... more targetedly.
The Common People have been fighting us since before they began using burner worms militarily. If it's 'a subset of the priests', it's a subset that can reliably convince people for decades straight to invade their neighbors on purely ideological terms.
It's perfectly reasonable to guess that there's a specific faction particularly interested in fighting us- but that specific faction appears to be, y'know. The current ruling power entire.
At this point, I don't trust Caras to understand humans. Sabrina loves him and Virmire, but those two struggle to figure out even basic things about human society and operation. How does Caras know that it's the same group of people attacking him? He identifies them by the fact that they wear armor during war. That's nearly every group in real life history that I can think of with the capacity to get armor in preparation for fighting.
I believe you are giving the priests too much credit. Based on what the soldiers have said about them, I don't think they're trying to get Caras to attack. I believe they're corrupt, venal, and greedy idiots. They sell holy bread to merchants in return for 'generous donations'
The merchant was unaware that the holy bread contained burner worm eggs. I'd bet somebody actually aware of the value of burner worm eggs would pay a whole lot more than a merchant being tricked to die for spreading burner worms.
As you pointed out, Sabrina was sent here to solve a problem. Sabrina attacking that town is not solving the problem, it's delaying finding a solution. Furthermore, right now only a subset of people in that town want to attack Gendarme lands. Making an attack that will be perceived as profane and targeted towards the core of their beliefs will just leave that many more people alive to be wrathful with Caras.
I appreciate everybody discussing this with me, especially for the potential frustration over your efforts not convincing me to your line of thinking. I interpret the situation differently, and therefore think Sabrina would react differently.
[x]Would rather back off entirely and figure out plans back home.
-[x] Everybody comes with you. Leave no trace of having taken Ada alive, to whatever extent feasible. This situation needs more than a few minutes of questioning the prisoners, before determining a plan.
As you pointed out, Sabrina was sent here to solve a problem. Sabrina attacking that town is not solving the problem, it's delaying finding a solution. Furthermore, right now only a subset of people in that town want to attack Gendarme lands. Making an attack that will be perceived as profane and targeted towards the core of their beliefs will just leave that many more people alive to be wrathful with Caras.
There is uncertainty for both options. I believe that if we target the priests precisely enough, and have Ada or the others spread word of what they were doing, we can prevent a full scale religious war being declared against us. Especially if we can get the primary instigators all wiped out.
Our current problem is burner worm infection. Our potential problem is religious war. I'm aware dealing with our current problem may make the potential problem worse, or more likely. I still think it worthwhile to deal with the current problem now, and the potential problem later. Especially since we have no clear idea of how to solve the potential problem even if we do go home and brainstorm.
Let's say we do go home and develop method X for solving potential religious war. Maybe it's sending leaflets, maybe it's something else. If we go home and try method X right now, we still have to deal with the priests of Neustadt being real hostile towards us and continuing to sell infected bread. They'll also be actively working against whatever our method X is.
Let's say we go kill the priests, and then go home and try method X. Method X now works less well because we murdered a bunch of priests. But is the difficulty of that PR hit worse than the difficulty of having priests actively against us, and also selling burner worm bread? At worst, we have swapped one set of hostile priests for another set, and at least the second set of hostile priests aren't selling worm bread. I'll take that trade.
[x]Would rather back off entirely and figure out plans back home.
-[x] Everybody comes with you. Leave no trace of having taken Ada alive, to whatever extent feasible. This situation needs more than a few minutes of questioning the prisoners, before determining a plan.
I think getting all this information back to Cara's is the most important.
At this point, I don't trust Caras to understand humans. Sabrina loves him and Virmire, but those two struggle to figure out even basic things about human society and operation. How does Caras know that it's the same group of people attacking him? He identifies them by the fact that they wear armor during war. That's nearly every group in real life history that I can think of with the capacity to get armor in preparation for fighting.
You hum thoughtfully, trying to distract yourself from how deeply unhappy all three men have become at understanding all this. "I've been wondering; is any particular priest especially hateful toward, erm, 'Dominators'? Or, I dunno, sufficiently unscrupulous about the faith you'd find it plausible they'd do this in secret?"
Felix shakes his head. "Dame Sabrina, this is not- it is not a rogue." Beardy Man moans something to himself about how he can't believe Felix was 'so right this whole time'. "This- all of this would require many priests working together." Then his expression darkens further. "And that the holy expeditions were also not mentioning things like that the shadowlands are... not."
Okay then. "So... probably all the priests are in on this. And probably all the, er, 'blessed' soldiers?"
Beardy Man's face goes into his hands. "I can't believe Meinolf lied to my face..."
Konrad sinks to his knees, looking crushed under the weight of the truth. "Everyone blessed, and everyone who wished to prove themselves by joining a holy expedition." He covers his face. "I- I may not be able to rejoin my family, but I must away from this regardless."
Trust that the three defectors have a reasonable grasp on their own society when they say 'oh, at least all the Regularly Occuring Crusades and Most Of The Priests have to be in on this'.
Like no, the Common People are not some Always Chaotic Evil demons. But the society is in fact clearly already at war with us, and the priests have manufactured every pretext they need already with things like the dissidents still accept as fact that the literal devil or some such walks the shadowlands ie our lands, in the first place.
Attacking them doesn't give them better pretexts in any clear way, and killing a lot of priests is likely to hurt their ability to maintain their control/organize attacks. At the very least, it likely directly hurts the ability for them to maintain and supply Burner Worms, where backing off is, for the moment, returning home empty handed, going back and saying 'sorry boss Caras we uh didn't attack the city for no reason!'.
Which I think requires a more compelling reason to do than we have.
Not closing the vote today as there's no way I'd get the update done today, but so far it's looking like Sabrina will be plotting with an eye toward trying to targetedly remove the clergy and those in the military helping keep the secrets.
the society is in fact clearly already at war with us, and the priests have manufactured every pretext they need already with things like the dissidents still accept as fact that the literal devil or some such walks the shadowlands ie our lands, in the first place.
Attacking them doesn't give them better pretexts in any clear way, and killing a lot of priests is likely to hurt their ability to maintain their control/organize attacks. At the very least, it likely directly hurts the ability for them to maintain and supply Burner Worms, where backing off is, for the moment, returning home empty handed, going back and saying 'sorry boss Caras we uh didn't attack the city for no reason!'.
Their society is absolutely not 'clearly already at war with us', as most of our prisoners are confused as to why they would even want to be at war, and even more for being surprised to even find gendarme forces attacking them.
Ada, literal burner worm worshipper infected with said worm, was also confused as to why anybody would do anything about the darklands besides pity the unfortunates trapped there.
What will change that attitude fast is a human leading gendarme forces in massacring their 'innocent' priests and/or civilians in a 'completely' unprovoked attack.
Caras wanted this attack, and I was fine with it from what we knew at the time. Now though, I'd much rather not play into what I perceive as the desired strategy by Sabrina's enemies based on new information. Maybe this will start a fight between Caras and Sabrina, but that's a better outcome than starting a war. The civilians of the town closest to Caras don't think they're at war with him, and I don't want that to change just yet.
As an aside, maybe Sabrina marrying Caras is what initiated this strategy by the priests, as they can no longer rely on Caras not understanding humans.
Sabrina certainly has been telling everybody she encounters how great her life worked out, and I didn't get the impression this was a private search for a partner on the side of Caras as well.
Edit: just in case my tone comes across as hostile, that is not my intent. I'm feeling firm in my opinion at the moment, but I'm definitely not wishing to be rude.
