Kansas from May 30. 2020 is suddenly transported to May 30, 1854, the day the Kansas Nebraska...
I wanted to get a few thoughts running first. My main idea with picking Kansas was to see if there would be any interesting pileups from the lead up to bloody Kansas and how it would alter US politics in the aftermath.So are you just asking this or are you planning to propose for yourself what might occur?
Early 1900s electronics can be hand crafted in a pinch. Modernizing the US to 1930s tech will take more or less as long as the Meiji restoration, which brought a fuedal/early age of sail japan up to early modern technology.How much can Kansas uplift downtime America and how will that uplift affect the world in the long run?
Even the most ardent Fire Eaters will realize that secession is a doomed cause as long as those two divisions are loyal to the Federal Government. And while individual members may be willing to desert and join the CSA, 90-95% likely won't. So secession is DOA. Particularly in border states that were on the fence and only left after Lincoln decided to use force to suppress the rebellion.Do the southern states take a look at the history books and then at Kansas' military arsenal and opt to roll the dice anyway? Or do they give in and start compromising their way to eventual abolition? If the later option which methods do you think will be pursued?
They don't really have a choice. In 1854, Kansas would be the second most populous state in the Union at 2.913 million people. Only New York with ~3.7 would have more. And Kansas likely has a huge population explosion of freemen rushing to move there once they find out that blacks and women are actually treated as Citizens there will full voting and civil rights. By 1860, Kansas is probably the most populated state in the country. Congress won't really be able to deny it. I don't think they admit Kansas as a state so much as recognize that it already is one.Will the Federal government accept that Kansas now has sufficient citizens to apply for statehood or will there be other legal dances used?
OOf, now I can't help but imagine the problems that would come from the cultural malaise aflicting modern blacks having legitimate racism to deal with. There will be violence. The final outcome will be very hard to predict.And Kansas likely has a huge population explosion of freemen rushing to move there once they find out that blacks
I'm gonna try and phrase this politely, but WTF? Modern minorities already face "legitimate racism." I'll grant you that, compared to 1850, minorities are light-years ahead of where they were. But it's not like Kansas is just going to suddenly have minorities second class citizens because they got sent back in time. Kansas is going to rapidly become multicultural as minorities and "less desirable" (i.e. Irish, Italian and East European) whites flock there.OOf, now I can't help but imagine the problems that would come from the cultural malaise aflicting modern blacks having legitimate racism to deal with. There will be violence. The final outcome will be very hard to predict.
Its not like there haven't been ruling queens in the past. There is more likely to be a massive push-back from downtime women against feminism. Gender roles are policed by members of the same gender. The anti-man and anti-family aspects of feminism will get a very strong negative reaction from women with a strong family values stance.The Governor of Kansas also happens to be female. Which in 1854 is unlikely to be popular in much of the country. Though it could also spur earlier women's suffrage
I don't think it would in this case. The Governor is married with children. She's literally the perfect example of what women can do, even while having a family. And we're talking women's suffrage, not full on feminism. A female Governor and a female Representative are going to be an impetus for women's suffrage.Its not like there haven't been ruling queens in the past. There is more likely to be a massive push-back from downtime women against feminism. Gender roles are policed by members of the same gender. The anti-man and anti-family aspects of feminism will get a very strong negative reaction from women with a strong family values stance.
That's actually a really good point. By the standards of the 1850s, modern Kansas would be seen as being radically liberal/progressive. That's seriously going to fuck with the minds of some of their politicians, going from being extremely conservative to very fucking liberalAs for uptime Kansas, we, today, call it conservative, in the 1800s it is fucking super liberal. Any part of the 1800s.
I see instead of a push to outlaw things not popular with the GOP, I think people might over compensate by trying to keep everything they can when DC tries to take things away.
Even the Radical Republicans might think twice about joining this Kansas. TheGOP will be very surprised by 1850 party politics.
Yeah, if they think the rural parts are radically liberal/progressive, Kansas City is liberal by even average Kansas views. With Witchita and Topeka more in the middle.That's actually a really good point. By the standards of the 1850s, modern Kansas would be seen as being radically liberal/progressive. That's seriously going to fuck with the minds of some of their politicians, going from being extremely conservative to very fucking liberal
Do you have any examples of what you mean?I almost think the reverse would be more interesting. 1854 Kansas brought to the 21st century would be a hotbed of potential creative stories turning everything on its head.
I need to find that old ISOT story where a modern Klansman returns home weeping upon the realization that he's a radical progressive now.As for uptime Kansas, we, today, call it conservative, in the 1800s it is fucking super liberal. Any part of the 1800s.
I see instead of a push to outlaw things not popular with the GOP, I think people might over compensate by trying to keep everything they can when DC tries to take things away.
Even the Radical Republicans might think twice about joining this Kansas. TheGOP will be very surprised by 1850 party politics.
I can see a lot of people glaring at Missouri and daring them to do something stupid, but I'm not so certain there will be all that many crusaders up to travel into the Deep South. Though the state border may become the most heavily armed finish line for the Underground Railroad in history. The House of Reps will rapidly become a fun place to be certain.Given that that's just at the kickoff point for the current wave of protests and civil disobedience, you're gonna see a shitload of armed groups traveling South intending to free slaves and fuck up slaver owners property.
Like, forget about dealing with downtimers trying to awkwardly integrate into the population - Kansas is now a military superpower and sitting right on the border of the future Confederacy, which is in the process of working to death millions of Black people. All of the energy that would have been directed towards protest movements is now going to be channeled into reverse filibusters aiming to fuck with the Planter Class any which way they can, and the Buchanan administration is absolutely powerless to stop them.
I can see a lot of people glaring at Missouri and daring them to do something stupid, but I'm not so certain there will be all that many crusaders up to travel into the Deep South. Though the state border may become the most heavily armed finish line for the Underground Railroad in history. The House of Reps will rapidly become a fun place to be certain.
Thanks for the continued responses everyone.
Party affiliation was much, much looser before the Civil War. The Democrats remained fairly stable from 1828 on, but the main opposition went from National Republicans to Whigs to Republicans, plus the lesser factions of Anti-Masons, Free-Soilers, and Know-Nothings. Politicians drifted in and out a lot more than they do now.Even the Radical Republicans might think twice about joining this Kansas. TheGOP will be very surprised by 1850 party politics.
I know I'm not a Kansan, and it does seem like you are, but one of Kansas' four districts electing a liberal is completely in accordance with the state overall being very conservative.Yeah, people think Kansas is very conservative, then it elects a lesbian Native American and wonders what the fuss is about.
The debate is going to blow up pretty damn fast as to whether working with the current Pierce administration or the possible future Buchanan administration is the best way to free as many slaves as possible, as quickly as possible, while killing as few of them as possible.Given that that's just at the kickoff point for the current wave of protests and civil disobedience, you're gonna see a shitload of armed groups traveling South intending to free slaves and fuck up slaver owners property.
Like, forget about dealing with downtimers trying to awkwardly integrate into the population - Kansas is now a military superpower and sitting right on the border of the future Confederacy, which is in the process of working to death millions of Black people. All of the energy that would have been directed towards protest movements is now going to be channeled into reverse filibusters aiming to fuck with the Planter Class any which way they can, and the Buchanan administration is absolutely powerless to stop them.
Especially if negotiations with the relevant Congresscritters result in Kansas frantically drawing 20-odd House districts for the 1854 elections.The House of Reps will rapidly become a fun place to be certain.
With the Civil War only a few years away, it does seem like a lot of people are going to be skeptical that violence isn't just inevitable anyway.Shit, if I was in Kansas when the ISOT happened you better believe I'd consider putting a group together to forcibly liberate some slaves. On top of that, even as craven as the modern day GOP are I seriously doubt they'd acquiesce to the US government telling them to reign in their citizens.
"[Kansas] promised to do anything [the federal government] asked them to do, provided that [the federal government] never asked them to do anything." - Terry Pratchett.Honestly, what is compelling Kansas to obey the federal government?
Even the most ardent Fire Eaters will realize that secession is a doomed cause as long as those two divisions are loyal to the Federal Government. And while individual members may be willing to desert and join the CSA, 90-95% likely won't. So secession is DOA. Particularly in border states that were on the fence and only left after Lincoln decided to use force to suppress the rebellion.
So yes, some form of compromise will be reached. It's most likely form is gradual abolition by 1900 with slave owners compensated "for their loss of property" (and I feel dirty even writing that).
I agree; every slave in the western reaches of Missouri is quickly going to be freed.All it takes is a determined group, a trip to the nearest sporting goods store, and a minivan. With 24 hours they can drive across the border, arm slaves with the most basic hunting rifles, and spark an uprising. I guarantee you that BLM activists would organize raids, clandestine or no, to wreak havoc on the Planter class. Even if the borders are guarded, they're guarded by 1850's standards - a single SUV with armed passengers or converted technical is going to make mincemeat out of basically anything they can throw at them.
The Kansas National Guard is the 35th Infantry Division (Mechanized). Being equipped with a shit ton of Bradley IFVs, Paladin SPA and Abrams tanks with an absolutely mind boggling amount of trucks, I'd say they're uniquely suited to doing this. And the 1st Infantry Division also is lavishly equipped with tracked vehicles and number of helicopters including the AH-64, UH-60 and CH-47. So the military units in the state are extraordinarily well suited for moving off road and across undeveloped terrain.I agree; every slave in the western reaches of Missouri is quickly going to be freed.
But further east, the borders are guarded by fairly impassible terrain. Maybe you could get your off-road truck down Missouri roads to Jefferson City, though SUV's will probably break down within fifty miles at least. But how will you cross the Mississippi or the Arkansas or any number of other rivers between you and the vast majority of plantations? Freeing the slaves there will either take individual Underground Railroad conductors armed with modern weapons, or a coordinated effort by the Kansas National Guard.