Since modern day Japanese being ISOT to WW2 era have been done before I want to make a thread...
Modern day Japan ISOT to 1945... right at the moment the nuke was drop
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Since modern day Japanese being ISOT to WW2 era have been done before I want to make a thread with a little spin on it.
What if Japan as of to day is ISOT to 1945 specifically August 6 1945 right after Little Boy nuclear bomb was drop from Enola Gay. And yes all US army asset currently operating in Japan (bomber, etc) also come along. So any active bombing run will continue.
US military in Japan did not get ISOT along
I find this scenario to be interesting since most of the time modern Japan ISOT to WW2 usually result in US friendly Japan but would this scenario change that?
How long would it take for Japan to respond?
Would USA-Japan relation be much worse?
Could JSDF fend of against USA army? Or at least hold them off until negotiation could be done?
How would Japanese public react to getting nuked (and possibly fire bombed) again?
Nuke map
What if Japan as of to day is ISOT to 1945 specifically August 6 1945 right after Little Boy nuclear bomb was drop from Enola Gay. And yes all US army asset currently operating in Japan (bomber, etc) also come along. So any active bombing run will continue.
US military in Japan did not get ISOT along
I find this scenario to be interesting since most of the time modern Japan ISOT to WW2 usually result in US friendly Japan but would this scenario change that?
How long would it take for Japan to respond?
Would USA-Japan relation be much worse?
Could JSDF fend of against USA army? Or at least hold them off until negotiation could be done?
How would Japanese public react to getting nuked (and possibly fire bombed) again?
Nuke map
What about Japaneese army in China and Manchuria? would they agree to hear Japan from 2019?
P.S about war - Japan could sink USA 1945 fleets and schoot down their planes,but what next? they would probably go for their own H bombs,and use them against USA.And soviets,if they attack them.
P.S about war - Japan could sink USA 1945 fleets and schoot down their planes,but what next? they would probably go for their own H bombs,and use them against USA.And soviets,if they attack them.
I did not give exact time but I did state that the bomb already left Enola Gay.
ok,but same difference but now there is less time for japan to panic then react to what happened to them so still bombed unless japanese airports can some how get into contact with the plane befre it drops the bomb
Kahing
Licking doorknobs is illegal on other planets
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It'll take some time to figure out what is going on but within a day or two the Japanese government will have figured it out. The JSDF should be able to deal with US bombing and the blockade with relative ease. There's going to be massive confusion among all this new hyper-advamced military tech the Japanese suddenly have, and aerial reconnaissance and submarine patrols are going to notice the sudden changes in Tokyo and other Japanese cities that go from fairly standard 1940s construction, wooden homes, and bombed and burnt out ruins to skyscrapers.
In spite of this I'm afraid the Japanese may actually have to use nukes to get the US to back off, at bare minimum inflict absolutely devastating defeats. They could get active nukes fairly quickly. But they are not going to unconditionally surrender and the US is not going to accept anything but unconditional surrender until it sees that victory is hopeless.
What happens next is where it gets really interesting. When all the "future knowledge" comes out and the history from 1945 to 2019 becomes known.
In spite of this I'm afraid the Japanese may actually have to use nukes to get the US to back off, at bare minimum inflict absolutely devastating defeats. They could get active nukes fairly quickly. But they are not going to unconditionally surrender and the US is not going to accept anything but unconditional surrender until it sees that victory is hopeless.
What happens next is where it gets really interesting. When all the "future knowledge" comes out and the history from 1945 to 2019 becomes known.
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do the japanese even have nukes i know they use nuclear power
Kahing
Licking doorknobs is illegal on other planets
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No but Japan could build one fast and has a huge plutonium stockpile, enough for thousands of nukes.
xa na xa
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Not thousands, betwen 100 and 300.
Even with maximum effort, it would take at least a year before the first device. Some logistical constraints and bottlenecks can't be overcone by throwing more resources.
Please nobody come up the 6 months rumour.
People confuse the large plutonium stockpile (which is why theoretically they could build the high number mentioned above) with the ability to build fast.
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So, how's Japan's food supply in this scenario?
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Pretty bad. They can probably keep themselves fed for 4-6 months, depending rationing, but modern Japan relies heavily in food imports to keep itself fed. They basically either have to embrace imperialism to get the food they need (bad times for everyone) or end war ASAP. Maybe via "Okay, we smashed both US and USSR invasion forces, we also want peace under following terms: We go democratic, Emperor stays and everything we conquered goes back to people we took them from. Also we share tech in exchange for food."
xa na xa
A.E.I.O.U. - Antarticae est imperare orbi universo
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So there is this flight of B-29s towards Tokyo.
About 300 nm away, some start exploding out of nowhere. Then some superfast and agile fighters start shooting them down.
What I want to know is what kind of losses they would take before turning away, 20%, 40%, 80%, what do you think?
About 300 nm away, some start exploding out of nowhere. Then some superfast and agile fighters start shooting them down.
What I want to know is what kind of losses they would take before turning away, 20%, 40%, 80%, what do you think?
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Less than 20. When entire airspace of Japan becomes no-go zone for US air force, despite the fact that they basically own the airspace up until this point, US is going to withdraw it's fighters to figure WTF they are dealing with. A large number of fighters that are faster than anything, more agile than anything and armed with weaponry nobody has ever seen?
And worst of all, Japan all of the sudden has a lot of these, never mind the fact that they have pulled resources needed to maintain them from nowhere? US is going to want to know WTF they just stumbled on. Japan had showed no capacity to develop, never mind wield such aircraft and yet they are suddenly turning Japanese airspace into no-go for US Air Force.
And when Navy tries to push into Japanese waters, the new type of ships and weapons that turn US instantly obsolete appear, US is going to want to know where in the universe did Japan pull these toys from, and why they waited until now?
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Pretty sure they got enough for month or two, enough to bluff US. But yeah, they are going to sue for peace.
And then their economy crashes because 100% of their trading partners just disappeared and all their treaties, systems, etc. are useless.
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Suing for peace works because by and large? Japan is still governed under the constitution that the US imposed upon them.
Japan focuses on defending themselves, say broadcasting that they hve a no fly zone, and with a few exceptions (the plane carrying the second Abomb, inbound bombers), they then shoot as much as possible to disable.
The US isn't stupid and we'll realize pretty damned quickly that if we don't take advantage of this, the Russian's will. Also, anyone arguing that we demanded unconditional surrender is going to be told: "We got it, in 1945. Also, Acts of God supersede policy papers."
The Funny thing is that for 2019, Japan is very conservative in some respects.
By 1945 standards? They're screaming free love, pro-civil rights hippies. The interaction after the peace is going to be pretty interesting.
Japan focuses on defending themselves, say broadcasting that they hve a no fly zone, and with a few exceptions (the plane carrying the second Abomb, inbound bombers), they then shoot as much as possible to disable.
The US isn't stupid and we'll realize pretty damned quickly that if we don't take advantage of this, the Russian's will. Also, anyone arguing that we demanded unconditional surrender is going to be told: "We got it, in 1945. Also, Acts of God supersede policy papers."
The Funny thing is that for 2019, Japan is very conservative in some respects.
By 1945 standards? They're screaming free love, pro-civil rights hippies. The interaction after the peace is going to be pretty interesting.
Yeah except Japan ended up getting a city nuked. It's people will not be happy with the U.S. They might be spiteful enough to gift the Soviets many things just to get revenge on the US. People aren't logical robots who won't care that their friends and family were killed by someone else even if it was an accident.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
I doubt they would go to the Soviet union, Japan don't exactly like Communism, so while their wrath over the bombs are likely to make them less than friendly with the US, I find it more likely that they try to make a third side, than them deciding to work with the Soviet Union.
It's not like they don't have that capability, with all the new tech they have access to, they can certainly help a third option get to the world power level, and being the whole reason behind their new factions success, mean they will have extreme amounts of influence in that faction.
AzureShogun
Tanks are better than Mechs
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I don't think you understand... The nuclear bomb is already in mid air, already falling when the ISOT happens, the American bomber isn't going to somehow scoop it back up again if some airport tells them to.
As for the effects... Well I'm sure the Japanese people would understand what happened and why but... That won't matter at all. Its a modern city getting nuked. Ultra-nationalist parties will immediately gain power and influence.
Japan will have to depliy their JSDF to fight the Americans, just to defend themselves if nothing else, afterall as far as the Americans are concerned all the defenses will have 'dissapeared' and you can bet at least 1 Japanese soldier will attack after they find out the nuke has been dropped.
Politically the ultra nationalists and the moderates will be fighting, one will want to surrender again immediately, the other will want to exterminate nearby American forces for [insert nationalist logic]. And due to the tech gap they could do it.
Overall I think America would get a bloody nose, lose a LOT of forces near Japan, but I also think Japan would get peace soon, not a surrender anymore, and I think that will be a big difference, so Japan will become the primary asiatic power rather than America via foreign bases in SK, phillipenes and Japan. That said Japan will have to go on a massive aid campaign to make up for the atrocicities recently commited.
Still despite initial pushes to keep conquered land by the ultra nationalists Japan of today is very different from Japan back then, so I doubt they would keep any colonies. Overall they would become a modern super power due to the tech difference. Hard to tell what else might happen.
Kahing
Licking doorknobs is illegal on other planets
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Even Japanese moderates won't want to surrender. No one is going to want to submit to foreign occupation. Japan will fight and the entire nation will get behind it. The Japanese right will push for hurriedly building an atom bomb to avenge Hiroshima. The left may be more restrained.
But Japan will try to negotiate. The first hint that something is wrong may be when the US gets a message demanding that the second nuclear attack mission on Kokura (the original target of the Nagasaki bomb) be called off. A catastrophic Intel failure of that scale will give pause, along with the fact that Japan suddenly has shiny new toys that are obliterating American air formations and warships. Japan will doubtlessly try to engage the US Embassy in Tokyo as a mediator.
But Japan will try to negotiate. The first hint that something is wrong may be when the US gets a message demanding that the second nuclear attack mission on Kokura (the original target of the Nagasaki bomb) be called off. A catastrophic Intel failure of that scale will give pause, along with the fact that Japan suddenly has shiny new toys that are obliterating American air formations and warships. Japan will doubtlessly try to engage the US Embassy in Tokyo as a mediator.
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Kahing
Licking doorknobs is illegal on other planets
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Japan may well try to make a grab for natural resources but as a resource poor nation which just lost all of its trading partners it'll be too busy sorting out internal issues to care for empire building.
Empire building solves those internal issues. By focusing on external problems they can pacify internal structure.
Japan at the moment of ISOT has no allies. Only enemies and I cannot see them letting their bitter rival China come into existence again or submit to American Imperialism like before. They might sue for peace with the US, but China, Korea and lots of other Asian territories get anexed.