What if People's Republic of China as of today is ISOT to 1945 specifically September 2, 1945...
Modern day China ISOT to 1945
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What if People's Republic of China as of today is ISOT to 1945 specifically September 2, 1945 the official date of Japanese empire surrender in World war 2.
Now lets make this more interesting by also ISOTing China claimed territory in OTL so thats include things like Taiwan and islands they claim in south china sea.
What will happen?
How would both Soviet Union and America react to sudden appearance of very advance China.
How would people react to their brand of Communism?
Would China help out Soviet Union or are they likely to remain independent? If in the case that China decide to sided with soviet Union, how would Soviet Union react to the fact that they are no longer the most powerful countries in their faction?
How would Taiwan react knowing that they no longer have America at their back?
Now lets make this more interesting by also ISOTing China claimed territory in OTL so thats include things like Taiwan and islands they claim in south china sea.
What will happen?
How would both Soviet Union and America react to sudden appearance of very advance China.
How would people react to their brand of Communism?
Would China help out Soviet Union or are they likely to remain independent? If in the case that China decide to sided with soviet Union, how would Soviet Union react to the fact that they are no longer the most powerful countries in their faction?
How would Taiwan react knowing that they no longer have America at their back?
They have nuclear IBCMs. Literally the only other country to have atomic weapons just invented them, used all of their prototypes and had aircraft as a delivery system. At best the US can bloody their noses if they can build more nukes fast enough, but they end up taking over the fucking planet and instituting their special brand of totalitarian dystopia.
MajorKO
Amateur QM and Writer with little motivation
- Location
- United States
China probably nips the problem of the United States (and possibly the Soviet Union) by going on the offensive. I'd assume that they would first secure Eastern Asia, especially Taiwan to prevent any advanced technology from going to the allies. The biggest obstacles that they're probably going to face would be Taiwan and the British-Colonial army in Southeast Asia. I'd say that the Japanese in Indonesia, eastern Southeast Asia, and Korea would be a problem, but considering how quickly they were overrun when the Soviets invaded in our timeline, they probably won't last long here either.
After this, China would probably go after Japan. Here I expect things to get bloody, as even today China loathes Japan due to what they did to them during the 1930's and early 1940's, so to have the chance to not only get revenge, but against those that directly did these war crimes. Yeah, I think that after they're done with Japan, it'll be decimated.
Besides this, I'm not sure. I'm going to assume that if they're not outright destroyed via nukes or decapitation strikes, China may invade the U.S itself, which will probably take a while, if only due to the large war-time military, numerous resources and industrial sources, and the pure amount of land that would have to be traversed. Also, keep in mind that the large highway systems weren't built until the 1950's, so while U.S military movement may be slow, China's ability to move will also be affected. As a result, it would probably be a decently long and bloody conflict that will result in either China eventually capturing America, or the gap between the two being somehow filled, whether it be China running out of certain resources or the U.S gaining technology to help match against China, although in the end it would still probably reach a stalemate at best. China's relationship with the Soviets meanwhile may vary. If China keeps it's current pseudo-capitalist communist policy, then they're probably not going to be friends anytime soon. If China makes policy changes reorienting itself back towards more 'traditional' communism, or at least drops some of the capitalist tendencies, then they might get on okay. Granted, the Soviets and Chinese already fought a war before China adopted capitalist policies, so who knows what will happen.
Assuming that the Soviets are allowed to live, then they'll probably be given free reign over Europe and maybe some of west Asia. China will probably rule the rest either directly (East Asia, part of middle east, Pacific, possibly western North America), through vassal-like states (Rest of Asia, rest of North America), or through independent yet heavily influenced/watched states (Africa, South/Central Asia).
Also, like I said before, without pressure from the West and the U.N, China can change their country to do pretty much whatever they want now. Examples include annexing more territory, increase in cultural/ethnic suppression, dropping industrial/economic restrictions/guidelines, crack down on rights in Hong Kong, etc.
Of course, this will all likely effect China economically. However, they can probably survive, if with some economic decay and starvation due to few/no sources to export goods to and a lot less food coming in respectfully. On the latter, even if they quickly gain food sources from overseas, they'll still be strapped for food due to a lot of inventions and practices not being used yet.
So in the end, the future for this world may very well look like something along the lines of Wolfenstein mixed with Orwell's 1984 with a Chinese Communist twist.
After this, China would probably go after Japan. Here I expect things to get bloody, as even today China loathes Japan due to what they did to them during the 1930's and early 1940's, so to have the chance to not only get revenge, but against those that directly did these war crimes. Yeah, I think that after they're done with Japan, it'll be decimated.
Besides this, I'm not sure. I'm going to assume that if they're not outright destroyed via nukes or decapitation strikes, China may invade the U.S itself, which will probably take a while, if only due to the large war-time military, numerous resources and industrial sources, and the pure amount of land that would have to be traversed. Also, keep in mind that the large highway systems weren't built until the 1950's, so while U.S military movement may be slow, China's ability to move will also be affected. As a result, it would probably be a decently long and bloody conflict that will result in either China eventually capturing America, or the gap between the two being somehow filled, whether it be China running out of certain resources or the U.S gaining technology to help match against China, although in the end it would still probably reach a stalemate at best. China's relationship with the Soviets meanwhile may vary. If China keeps it's current pseudo-capitalist communist policy, then they're probably not going to be friends anytime soon. If China makes policy changes reorienting itself back towards more 'traditional' communism, or at least drops some of the capitalist tendencies, then they might get on okay. Granted, the Soviets and Chinese already fought a war before China adopted capitalist policies, so who knows what will happen.
Assuming that the Soviets are allowed to live, then they'll probably be given free reign over Europe and maybe some of west Asia. China will probably rule the rest either directly (East Asia, part of middle east, Pacific, possibly western North America), through vassal-like states (Rest of Asia, rest of North America), or through independent yet heavily influenced/watched states (Africa, South/Central Asia).
Also, like I said before, without pressure from the West and the U.N, China can change their country to do pretty much whatever they want now. Examples include annexing more territory, increase in cultural/ethnic suppression, dropping industrial/economic restrictions/guidelines, crack down on rights in Hong Kong, etc.
Of course, this will all likely effect China economically. However, they can probably survive, if with some economic decay and starvation due to few/no sources to export goods to and a lot less food coming in respectfully. On the latter, even if they quickly gain food sources from overseas, they'll still be strapped for food due to a lot of inventions and practices not being used yet.
So in the end, the future for this world may very well look like something along the lines of Wolfenstein mixed with Orwell's 1984 with a Chinese Communist twist.
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Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
Tell me more about the dystopia known as China.
- Location
- Illinois
I know of a story on the alternate history forums (I think that's the word) that explored this scenario. It was more tongue in cheek and plenty of fun.
- Location
- Canada
I see the CHINA BAD propaganda is strong here. Also, the Manifest Destiny aggression being projected.
No, China's first concern is keeping its own economy from falling apart. This is relatively easy pre-Japanese surrender and more so pre-German surrender, but if Japan has already surrendered then it needs to start showing up all over the world with trade goods very quickly to get raw materials to keep the manufacturing sector ticking over without over-much disruption.
See syipinc's TL in the thread on AH.com's Alien Space Bats forum about what 2015 China would do if moved back to 1915.
TLDR is "economic steamroller hegemony". Much cheaper and much less guerilla warfare than every other option.
China doesn't NEED to violently reclaim Taiwan in this case. It can just economically overwhelm them very quickly after Taiwan loses all external trade. Also, the PRC can make it known that they're having a civil dispute with Taiwan and everyone else would shrug at that quickly enough, especially when flooded with PRC economic might.
The PRC is unlikely to press the ROC claims to parts of Russia, ALL of Mongolia (it won't be hard to economically convince them to join up though), etc. as it considers its treaties adequate to resolve them. This is from Wikipedia on ROC territorial claims:
HOWEVER... it will end the ongoing war with Japan if it's still ongoing.
It will also press its claim to the Nine-Dash Line - Wikipedia As stated:
1. Japan surrendered the islands to the ROC's claim.
2. Because the "commie" PRC beat the ROC, no one bothered inviting China to a new carving-up conference (San Francisco).
3. Everyone expects China to just accept this sort of thing all over again:
No sovereign nation will ever accept such without a fight, MOLON LABE!
...Especially in this scenario when China is the indisputable superpower. It will say "These are our claims in the South China Sea" after showing off all the tech it can sell to the locals, and everyone else will nod and accept the claims because:
a) Heard this before from the ROC, so not a shock... wait, you're giving up some of your claim in the Gulf of Tonkin?
b) Those islands are useless anyhow.
c) If we refuse to trade our claims for tech, our rivals will get ahead of us.
China will actually connect the dashes though, with straight lines, to make the deal more palatable.
The main question in this thread is WHEN IS THIS IN 1945?
If this is before the Japanese surrender:
Japan is going to have all its leadership destroyed by precision bombing (and maybe a nuke or two just to demonstrate what nuclear weapons can do to the world, while showing the privilege of the overwhelmingly powerful AKA mercy). Hirohito's going to buy the farm for using poison gas on China.
Korea will be liberated and come under Chinese economic hegemony... wait there were 2.3 million Koreans in China as of 2009 so... Google says "The population of the whole of Korea increased from 23.7 million in 1940 to 29.3 million in 1949. of the 1949 population, 9.1 million were in North Koreaand 20.2 in South Korea." Well Korea's going to have a huge influx of ethnic Koreans, and have a lot of ethnic Japanese rounded up to be sent back to Japan. However, they'll almost certainly remain a very close satellite state due to population inertia being large enough.
Vietnam gets Chinese support for its independence, with a treaty signed between the rebel leaders and Chinese accepting all Chinese claims in the South China Sea.
India may suffer a hiccup in its independence movement as people consider the history books. This may delay things up to a year, and/or make East/West Pakistan just not happen in the first place.
If this is AFTER the Japanese surrender and partition of Korea by occupying forces, then things get a lot more interesting:
China probably has to threaten North Korea to get it to comply with them over the Soviets, but in a decade or so North Korea may petition for annexation because of something like 20% of its 1950 population being Chinese citizens or closely related to same.
If you don't think local Korean girls would jump at the opportunity to marry a rich man--and all these Chinese workers coming in to build up Korea would be fabulously rich--then I got a bridge to Terebithia to sell ya.
If this sounds like "Four Commanderies of Han 2.0", well... "Chaoxuanzu Zizhiqu" i.e. "Korean Autonomous Region" sounds plausible to me given such a development.
If this is before the GERMAN surrender however...
Berlin may be hit by an ICBM as a conclusive statement of might if there isn't enough time.
If there is enough time, China asks to borrow some airfields and send a precision bomb down Hitler's bunker just to show they can. After all, mercy is a privilege of power.
China gets all of Korea: You aren't going to be able to convince the Chinese army to stop when it's the literal fucking IJA they're facing. And by the time the Chinese are going to be planning to leave the locals may well not want to see them go with all the amenities and infrastructure the Chinese would have built... not to mention managing said infrastructure may be questionable on native Korean expertise. Also China will want to invest in its Korean-ethnicity citizens who are going back to help their homeland. The result is bumbling into a "Korean Autonomous Region" that's the whole peninsula.
Britain may voluntarily give up the disputed areas in British India that the ROC claims to the PRC, plus Hong Kong, in exchange for economic support, just to maintain British economic independence from the US, once they learn how abruptly lend-lease was cut off (bread began being rationed in Britain AFTER the war ended becasue of the end of lend-lease kicking their economy while it was down).
Vietnam probably gets traded to China by France for economic support. They'll learn very quickly that it's a poisoned chalice, especially considering the Chinese history of failing to hold onto it, but it IS possible that a steady and very obvious uplift will keep the Vietnamese from revolting... result is a "Vietnam Autonomous Region" whether China planned for it or not.
Infrastructure employment in China is going to rise a lot with a slump in the manufacturing sector. If the West thought the New Deal was Keynesian economics, well, they've seen nothing yet.
REGARDLESS OF TIMEFRAME:
Like in syipinc's TL, despite under-reporting being the majority of China's "woman shortage", there are still some millions of young Chinese men around without real prospects of finding female companionship.
When everyone who can do a job is being conscripted for massive scale projects overseas (container ports are not easy to prepare) and men are over-represented in mechanical jobs, and it'll mostly be single unattached men volunteering for overseas duty...
The average Chinese man's attitudes toward women, while generally considered conservative relative to the modern west, are radical liberal by 1945 standards. They're fine with their girlfriends or wives going out and having fun autonomously, are not so demanding, and have other behaviours that are going to seem generally a good deal.
The average Chinese man in 2019 will be healthy and reasonably tall compared to young men who grew up during the Great Depression. He will also come with access to the great luxuries of the newly mysterious (again) Oriental civilization that arrived by grace of God.
...And this Act Of God comes at a moment when the West has a great shortage of men.
So... "Yellow Peril" WILL be a screech of conservative elements in the West for quite a while to come.
Other just-as-religious but less conservative elements would be screeching that obviously God was helping humanity by balancing out the shortage of men from the war, and giving us a healthy boost of tech in the meantime. In other words "You were praying for fear that your daughters might not be able to find husbands, well GOD PROVIDED!!11!!"
No, China's first concern is keeping its own economy from falling apart. This is relatively easy pre-Japanese surrender and more so pre-German surrender, but if Japan has already surrendered then it needs to start showing up all over the world with trade goods very quickly to get raw materials to keep the manufacturing sector ticking over without over-much disruption.
See syipinc's TL in the thread on AH.com's Alien Space Bats forum about what 2015 China would do if moved back to 1915.
TLDR is "economic steamroller hegemony". Much cheaper and much less guerilla warfare than every other option.
China doesn't NEED to violently reclaim Taiwan in this case. It can just economically overwhelm them very quickly after Taiwan loses all external trade. Also, the PRC can make it known that they're having a civil dispute with Taiwan and everyone else would shrug at that quickly enough, especially when flooded with PRC economic might.
The PRC is unlikely to press the ROC claims to parts of Russia, ALL of Mongolia (it won't be hard to economically convince them to join up though), etc. as it considers its treaties adequate to resolve them. This is from Wikipedia on ROC territorial claims:
HOWEVER... it will end the ongoing war with Japan if it's still ongoing.
It will also press its claim to the Nine-Dash Line - Wikipedia As stated:
So...
1. Japan surrendered the islands to the ROC's claim.
2. Because the "commie" PRC beat the ROC, no one bothered inviting China to a new carving-up conference (San Francisco).
3. Everyone expects China to just accept this sort of thing all over again:
No sovereign nation will ever accept such without a fight, MOLON LABE!
...Especially in this scenario when China is the indisputable superpower. It will say "These are our claims in the South China Sea" after showing off all the tech it can sell to the locals, and everyone else will nod and accept the claims because:
a) Heard this before from the ROC, so not a shock... wait, you're giving up some of your claim in the Gulf of Tonkin?
b) Those islands are useless anyhow.
c) If we refuse to trade our claims for tech, our rivals will get ahead of us.
China will actually connect the dashes though, with straight lines, to make the deal more palatable.
The main question in this thread is WHEN IS THIS IN 1945?
If this is before the Japanese surrender:
Japan is going to have all its leadership destroyed by precision bombing (and maybe a nuke or two just to demonstrate what nuclear weapons can do to the world, while showing the privilege of the overwhelmingly powerful AKA mercy). Hirohito's going to buy the farm for using poison gas on China.
Korea will be liberated and come under Chinese economic hegemony... wait there were 2.3 million Koreans in China as of 2009 so... Google says "The population of the whole of Korea increased from 23.7 million in 1940 to 29.3 million in 1949. of the 1949 population, 9.1 million were in North Koreaand 20.2 in South Korea." Well Korea's going to have a huge influx of ethnic Koreans, and have a lot of ethnic Japanese rounded up to be sent back to Japan. However, they'll almost certainly remain a very close satellite state due to population inertia being large enough.
Vietnam gets Chinese support for its independence, with a treaty signed between the rebel leaders and Chinese accepting all Chinese claims in the South China Sea.
India may suffer a hiccup in its independence movement as people consider the history books. This may delay things up to a year, and/or make East/West Pakistan just not happen in the first place.
If this is AFTER the Japanese surrender and partition of Korea by occupying forces, then things get a lot more interesting:
China probably has to threaten North Korea to get it to comply with them over the Soviets, but in a decade or so North Korea may petition for annexation because of something like 20% of its 1950 population being Chinese citizens or closely related to same.
If you don't think local Korean girls would jump at the opportunity to marry a rich man--and all these Chinese workers coming in to build up Korea would be fabulously rich--then I got a bridge to Terebithia to sell ya.
If this sounds like "Four Commanderies of Han 2.0", well... "Chaoxuanzu Zizhiqu" i.e. "Korean Autonomous Region" sounds plausible to me given such a development.
If this is before the GERMAN surrender however...
Berlin may be hit by an ICBM as a conclusive statement of might if there isn't enough time.
If there is enough time, China asks to borrow some airfields and send a precision bomb down Hitler's bunker just to show they can. After all, mercy is a privilege of power.
China gets all of Korea: You aren't going to be able to convince the Chinese army to stop when it's the literal fucking IJA they're facing. And by the time the Chinese are going to be planning to leave the locals may well not want to see them go with all the amenities and infrastructure the Chinese would have built... not to mention managing said infrastructure may be questionable on native Korean expertise. Also China will want to invest in its Korean-ethnicity citizens who are going back to help their homeland. The result is bumbling into a "Korean Autonomous Region" that's the whole peninsula.
Britain may voluntarily give up the disputed areas in British India that the ROC claims to the PRC, plus Hong Kong, in exchange for economic support, just to maintain British economic independence from the US, once they learn how abruptly lend-lease was cut off (bread began being rationed in Britain AFTER the war ended becasue of the end of lend-lease kicking their economy while it was down).
Vietnam probably gets traded to China by France for economic support. They'll learn very quickly that it's a poisoned chalice, especially considering the Chinese history of failing to hold onto it, but it IS possible that a steady and very obvious uplift will keep the Vietnamese from revolting... result is a "Vietnam Autonomous Region" whether China planned for it or not.
Infrastructure employment in China is going to rise a lot with a slump in the manufacturing sector. If the West thought the New Deal was Keynesian economics, well, they've seen nothing yet.
REGARDLESS OF TIMEFRAME:
Like in syipinc's TL, despite under-reporting being the majority of China's "woman shortage", there are still some millions of young Chinese men around without real prospects of finding female companionship.
When everyone who can do a job is being conscripted for massive scale projects overseas (container ports are not easy to prepare) and men are over-represented in mechanical jobs, and it'll mostly be single unattached men volunteering for overseas duty...
The average Chinese man's attitudes toward women, while generally considered conservative relative to the modern west, are radical liberal by 1945 standards. They're fine with their girlfriends or wives going out and having fun autonomously, are not so demanding, and have other behaviours that are going to seem generally a good deal.
The average Chinese man in 2019 will be healthy and reasonably tall compared to young men who grew up during the Great Depression. He will also come with access to the great luxuries of the newly mysterious (again) Oriental civilization that arrived by grace of God.
...And this Act Of God comes at a moment when the West has a great shortage of men.
So... "Yellow Peril" WILL be a screech of conservative elements in the West for quite a while to come.
Other just-as-religious but less conservative elements would be screeching that obviously God was helping humanity by balancing out the shortage of men from the war, and giving us a healthy boost of tech in the meantime. In other words "You were praying for fear that your daughters might not be able to find husbands, well GOD PROVIDED!!11!!"
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- Location
- Canada
Oh really?
Japanese orphans in China - Wikipedia
The Chinese have enough national pride, especially today, to be magnanimous in victory.
Unit 731 was wiped off the face of the earth by Act of God if this was early enough in 1945. Or MacArthur and the US get threatened into giving them up. Or their location gets mysteriously blown up by stealth bombers.
Hirohito gets the noose like other military leaders.
Other than that, even the Chinese alive in 1945 could acknowledge the Japanese as victims of their own government.
Actually syipinc timeline is what made me interested in modern China ISOT scenario. While I enjoy it a lot it can be tad bit weird.
- Location
- Canada
That's because he got modern China almost ENTIRELY correct. It's a country confident enough in its own power and resilience that it can afford not to take itself overly seriously.
Anyone who can't actually hurt China acting up gets chuckles and shrugged off.
Anything that actually can hurt China gets the entire country to rally round the flag.
China 2019 moved to 1945 puts everything except stabilizing the economy, including all other powers, firmly in the first category.
Deadguy2001
oWo
Biggest issue will be oil production. China consumes 500k barrels a day but global oil production in 1940 was like only 1 billion metric tons per annum. The national reserves will only supply the Chinese economy going at full tilt for about half a year.
The Chinese armies, Communist and Nationalist alike repatriated something like 90% of the surviving Japanese colonists in China back to Japan safely. Chinese foster parents literally raised thousands of Japanese children left behind by the Imperial army as their own. The rest chose to stay or were abandoned by Tokyo for specious reasons.
I think you're overestimating the blood-thirst by a lot given that both Chinese governments, Nationalist and Communist alike, treated the Japanese colonists left behind in China with significantly more dignity and care than the Japanese government.
What Happened to the Settlers the Japanese Army Abandoned in China
I'd also note that for obvious reasons, the Japanese communist/socialist movement was pretty strong post World War II and only really knee capped by the American occupation government. The more likely scenario for Japan is that the PRC establishes a puppet regime run by the Japanese Communist Party, which is still a viable regional/protest vote party in 2019 mind you.
I also don't think that Hirihito will get the noose. Nostalgia for Imperial China and other traditional Chinese culture is on the upswing by a lot, case in point: Xi Jinping rebuilding the largest Buddhist temple in China when he was like 30 and then taking yearly pilgrimages there and also all of his rhetoric about how great Imperial China was. Killing an Emperor will be a big no no.
The Chinese armies, Communist and Nationalist alike repatriated something like 90% of the surviving Japanese colonists in China back to Japan safely. Chinese foster parents literally raised thousands of Japanese children left behind by the Imperial army as their own. The rest chose to stay or were abandoned by Tokyo for specious reasons.
I think you're overestimating the blood-thirst by a lot given that both Chinese governments, Nationalist and Communist alike, treated the Japanese colonists left behind in China with significantly more dignity and care than the Japanese government.
What Happened to the Settlers the Japanese Army Abandoned in China
I'd also note that for obvious reasons, the Japanese communist/socialist movement was pretty strong post World War II and only really knee capped by the American occupation government. The more likely scenario for Japan is that the PRC establishes a puppet regime run by the Japanese Communist Party, which is still a viable regional/protest vote party in 2019 mind you.
I also don't think that Hirihito will get the noose. Nostalgia for Imperial China and other traditional Chinese culture is on the upswing by a lot, case in point: Xi Jinping rebuilding the largest Buddhist temple in China when he was like 30 and then taking yearly pilgrimages there and also all of his rhetoric about how great Imperial China was. Killing an Emperor will be a big no no.
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KickInator
Verified Doomsday Device, SuperVella
- Location
- India
Can I get a link? That timeline seems interesting to read through.
- Location
- Canada
Sadly you need to have an alternatehistory.com account.
And the mods there are extremely strict so be careful about getting banned after too many kicks. The default kick is a week.
A lot of the better authors there left over time because they don't want to put up with the ways of the mods.
KickInator
Verified Doomsday Device, SuperVella
- Location
- India
I have one. I just very rarely visit it.
- Location
- Canada
I expect immediate announcement that oil is a strategic resource subject to extremely tight rationing. A boom in electric cars follows.
Fortunately most Chinese still have bicycles or tricycles. And tricycles easily substitute for most other light ground vehicles in capacity.
Sure this is a stripped-down micro-truck being carried to the scrap yard, but still.
I expect the following:
1. Booting the Japanese off Borneo and "borrowing" those oil fields for a while.
2. large-scale drilling in the South China Sea.
3. Lots of thorium reactors being built to supply electricity.
I would not be surprised if Singapore became a Directly Administered Municipality of this new and immensely powerful China, and if the more Chinese parts of Malaya can be purchased (a lot of Malay evictions of Chinese to Singapore occurred) then China has claims on even more oil fields int he South China Sea. And that's not mentioning what happens if France sells French Indochina for help rebuilding French infrastructure.
It should only take a couple trips on China's high-speed trains and some time to read the history books to convince the French that helping them rebuild the Metropole and hold onto North Africa (More stable countries = less extremists, also French NA has plenty of oil and is relatively integrated enough to plausibly become part of the Metropole...) is far more valuable than an over-rebellious jungle that's currently full of Japanese occupiers that the Chinese are willing to clear out for them.
Indeed.
I don't think a "Japanese Autonomous Region" scenario is likely, but Dominion status equivalent is basically unavoidable.
Propaganda may have to work overtime on convincing the Chinese people not to riot if Hirohito doesn't get the noose. And given how awful they are at their job, to the point of the Chinese saying "The Enemy is in the Central Propaganda Department" i.e. 敌在中宣部...
Use the search box, tick "title only" and type "China 2015".
If that doesn't work trade the year for 1915.
It's posed as a question but syipinc took the thread and built a TL there. Unless the mods removed his TL for being too perverted or something...
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...isoted-back-to-the-early-20th-century.352836/
Here you go
There is no story thread so you have to comb through the thread for stories.
Also keep in mind the stories does not take it self too seriously at time.
Just use search tools for content by syipinc
Also I have not had too many problem with the AH mod my self, so can't say anything about that.
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Deadguy2001
oWo
Electric vehicles require vast quantities of rare earth materials which produce serious amounts of toxic chemical waste. EV production can only ramp up so far given China's current rate of rare earth production (hint: lots of stuff like gallium and what not are imported from abroad).
The rough time frame for producing a nuclear reactor or a serious face oil drilling operation/rare earth mining operation is about 5-10 years.
The rationing will have to be pretty severe and large portions of the country will be reduced to bicycles and draft animals for transportation for at least a couple of years.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Honestly I'm pretty dubious China would be able to survive intact. They've got an economy built around 2.4 trillion in annual exports and 1.5 trillion in imports, that's a lot input/output loops to have suddenly fall by the wayside. The USA is the only country that matches and exceeds that, but is more prosperous, has more resources and land to work with, fewer people to manage, and a democracy is more able to have the government collapse without taking the governing system out with it. Even then the USA's prognosis for such scenarios is probably a lot less charitable than the average ISOT makes it out to be.
For ISOT smaller is probably better, because its much more likely that you can quickly substitute your trade needs with your new neighbors or available raw resources with relatively limited development. It also means you have a smaller more tightly knit polity to rework.
For ISOT smaller is probably better, because its much more likely that you can quickly substitute your trade needs with your new neighbors or available raw resources with relatively limited development. It also means you have a smaller more tightly knit polity to rework.
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- Location
- Canada
The USA has not had a track record of lifting hundreds of millions out of abject squalor within living memory. Don't underestimate the amount of leeway that buys a government in the minds of its populace.
Core Chinese culture is RADICALLY different from American, rally around the flag is MUCH stronger in Chinese culture.
The USA is a country full of partisanship and often violent tribalism that its government is not very good at keeping a lid on.
China is far more collectivist and used to being poor, while the US is far more individualist and used to being rich, which means its prognosis is going to be much worse than China's. "When one is used to privilege, equality feels like oppression" is also true for wealth.
Any ISOT that doesn't do some annexations accidentally or otherwise beggars belief. A USA ISOT that doesn't go full MANIFEST DESTINY is usually a joke.
And don't forget that YELLOW PERIL/RED SCARE is going to be in full effect for most of the world so if you think the average Chinese is ignorant enough to not rally round the flag in this moment of crisis, I have a bridge to Terebithia to sell ya.
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Madam Carstein
Cheerful Middenlander Demoness
- Location
- Middenland
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Hers
Thank you for saying this. Honestly, I've never got the tendency to assume that every nation sent back in time wants to become some kind of colossal empire. When actually the reality of sending a modern nation back to an era before the Internet (let alone before electricity or the telegraph) is really more: "we need to feed our people and buy fuel for our vehicles!" than "let's annex that land we want."
The PRC would obviously get Taiwan, and Hong Kong and Macau as well, but beyond that and the claims in the South China Sea, I don't really see a lot of territorial revisions going on.
Why annex Korea? China can easily buy Korea's eternal gratitude with generous economic support and supporting a unified Korea with a government that will for many reasons lean towards China in its foreign policy. And it's not much trouble to quietly sideline or purge anyone, such as Kim Il-Sung, who is likely to be troublesome to Beijing's interests in a united, stable, and prosperous Korea. And one, of course, that is friendly to China's interests on all fronts.
I mean, there will undoubtedly be plenty of people flocking to the new technologically-advanced nation with shockingly high standards of living and medical facilities capable of treating a wide variety of diseases and ailments that were incurable in 1945.
But there will honestly be just as many people who will leave China. There are certain simple skills that would suddenly become highly in-demand in a world hungry for what China has to offer. If people are willing to leave and accept a minor downgrade in living standards, they could still go to the US, Europe, or much of the world and earn enough money live like kings.
The People's Republic of China isn't going to appear even aesthetically communist to most of the world in 1945, especially not compared to the Stalinist Soviet Union.
That said, while there undoubtedly will be a Yellow Peril, there's really not much anyone can do about it. China holds literally all of the power in this kind of situation, and can actually actively involve itself in protecting the welfare of overseas Chinese communities. China could probably demand that the US repeal racist laws against Chinese immigrants and receive this concession because the US government will be desperate to trade with China.
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- Location
- Canada
Basically by accident.
Hence my bit about "YELLOW PERIL!" versus "Well you did pray to God that there would be men for your daughters after the war... GOD PROVIDED!"
YuffieK
(Verified Ninja Princess)
The 75 year technological advantage China will have won't help as much as you think. Militarily, they could conquer the world, but that would require ICBMs and generally piss everyone off into a long 'Everyone vs China' that would last generations unless China started up the genocides.
Economically, China could win, but that would take time, and it'd be very difficult to maintain the Chinese Government as it is long enough to do it. While China has the economic and technological superiority, the rest of the world isn't able to support it. No satellite networks = minimal cellphone and internet capabilities. China might have megafreighters but no foreign port in 1945 could handle them. Modern container ships are twice the tonnage of an Iowa or Yamato-class.
Economically, China could win, but that would take time, and it'd be very difficult to maintain the Chinese Government as it is long enough to do it. While China has the economic and technological superiority, the rest of the world isn't able to support it. No satellite networks = minimal cellphone and internet capabilities. China might have megafreighters but no foreign port in 1945 could handle them. Modern container ships are twice the tonnage of an Iowa or Yamato-class.