MGLN: Question about TSAB

Durabys

Miaow! Break the Chains!
Location
the land of the Boii
Pronouns
He/Him
Do the TSAB and Mid-Childa explore individual universes/dimensions? I mean, does TSAB explore space in the universes/dimensions under its jurisdiction? I know it explores Dimensional Space, aka: Multiverse, but does the TSAB do interstellar exploration inside a universe?
 
We don't know, it's not really covered.

They DO apparently do some, as there seems to be research to find archeological sites and lost logia, at least....
 
We know they have starships. Not really much call for those if you're not doing intersellar stuff.

Whether those ships are FTL-capable though I've no idea. They could well be exploring the same 'local region' of space across multiple dimensions, aka a great many parallel Earths / Solar Systems, which is how the Gamesverse fics handle it.

(Gamesverse and fanfic is my primary exposure to MGLN so I don't really feel safe commenting on what is and isn't canon/fanon here)
 
I seem to recall that the TSAB are supposedly intergalactic, but I don't have a source for that statement.
You could also use the AO3 copy of the story, which is rather more convenient as long as you don't mind missing out on the discussion. I can completely seriously say that the writers are among the best I know of, published or not, and Gamesverse is an excellent story in its own right, though some of the details will likely go over your head if you aren't familiar with the canon.
 
The answer is "yes". Because they aren't traveling between different universes. The "dimensional sea" is their version of hyperspace and is how their FTL works.

Because the whole "they tavel between universes" thing has no resl support in canon and, as far as I can tell, is based entirely on the fact they call their version of hyperspace "the dimensional sea".

Hell, MGLN doesn't even really have different continuities. The manga and soundstsges are all canon to the animes and the movies are all in universe films.
 
Hell, MGLN doesn't even really have different continuities. The manga and soundstsges are all canon to the animes and the movies are all in universe films.
The games are AUs though. Also there's at least one AU manga, the one where the fights are all a VR game.
 
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The answer is "yes". Because they aren't traveling between different universes. The "dimensional sea" is their version of hyperspace and is how their FTL works.

Because the whole "they tavel between universes" thing has no resl support in canon and, as far as I can tell, is based entirely on the fact they call their version of hyperspace "the dimensional sea".

Hell, MGLN doesn't even really have different continuities. The manga and soundstsges are all canon to the animes and the movies are all in universe films.
That is a novel way to put it. Because till now everyone was writing stories that Nanoha is multiversal (I haven't read Game Theory btw). WTF?!
 
That is a novel way to put it. Because till now everyone was writing stories that Nanoha is multiversal (I haven't read Game Theory btw). WTF?!
I've only read one that was like that. And that wasn't even strictly a Nanoha fic, it just happened to include them as part of a multiversal adventure.
 
It was the one with the MC being a Planetary Annihilation Commander and SI on top, right?
Nope. Ryouga gets even more lost than usual and winds up on DS9, then Voyager, then a series of other places. Along the way, the TSAB show up and help him get back home. They then get involved in a war with another multiversal empire.

The fic is called something like Grand Tour.
 
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The vibe I got from what I saw in the series is that they are looking for sites, bits and pieces of stray multiversal facilities, data and relics that may be a danger for reality as a whole?

Things like the infinite library or the search of Belkan relics and such?
 
Nope. Ryouga gets even more lost than usual and winds up on DS9, then Voyager, then a series of other places. Along the way, the TSAB show up and help him get back home. They then get involved in a war with another multiversal empire.

The fic is called something like Grand Tour.
Here's a link. I think it's pretty good. Not a masterpiece, but a decent timewaster. It has four sequel stories that are also complete.

Durabys is presumably thinking of Drich's Commander, which is incidentally one of the worst stories I've ever read.
 
The answer is "yes". Because they aren't traveling between different universes. The "dimensional sea" is their version of hyperspace and is how their FTL works.

And how would you reconcile this with the fact that individual mages can teleport between worlds solely on their own energy reserves?
Remember, in A's, the Knights were casually teleporting to other worlds in the day and returning home for dinner.
We know the distances between stars and the energy requirements for crossing those distances. I have a hard time believing that amount of energy can be contained within the body of a single human. FTL or no FTL.
Coversely, we have no idea of the energy requirements for crossing dimensional barriers. They can say it's "trivial" as long as you know the spell to do so, and I'd be able to accept it.
 
And how would you reconcile this with the fact that individual mages can teleport between worlds solely on their own energy reserves?
Remember, in A's, the Knights were casually teleporting to other worlds in the day and returning home for dinner.
We know the distances between stars and the energy requirements for crossing those distances. I have a hard time believing that amount of energy can be contained within the body of a single human. FTL or no FTL.
Coversely, we have no idea of the energy requirements for crossing dimensional barriers. They can say it's "trivial" as long as you know the spell to do so, and I'd be able to accept it.
The only mages we see do that are Fate, who is explicitly stated to be unusually powerful, and the Wolkenritter, who are all extremely powerful and likely using the Book of Darkness's power reserves to assist in their long range teleports.

Oh, and the only times we see Fate do so is when she's going to and from the Garden of Time, which is at an unspecified location in the Dimensional Sea, likely relatively close to Earth.

All that aside, while I will readily agree that the power requirements for such teleportation are extreme (hence why such action is so rare), i find it hard to believe rhey are more extreme than breaking through to a whole other universe.
 
The only mages we see do that are Fate, who is explicitly stated to be unusually powerful, and the Wolkenritter, who are all extremely powerful and likely using the Book of Darkness's power reserves to assist in their long range teleports.

"Extremely powerful" is one thing. Being able to cross light years is another, orders of magnitude beyond. If they had that kind of power available to them, their battles would have gone very differently.
As for using the BoD to assist, you may recall Shamal agonized over using a few pages just to cast that barrier breaking spell to free them in A's ep4(ish?)? That wouldn't even be a blip on the energy needed to leave the solar system.

Think. You're saying some people have to contain the power of starships within their bodies. Yet, somehow, they struggle to project kiloton level firepower to fight each other. You don't see the contradiction there?

Oh, and the only times we see Fate do so is when she's going to and from the Garden of Time, which is at an unspecified location in the Dimensional Sea, likely relatively close to Earth.

Except the Arthra arrives and starts looking for the Garden (they don't know it's the Garden, true. But they'd know Fate has an offworld lair) If it's oh so close that Fate doesn't need to teleport light years, or even light seconds, they would have seen it in short order.

All that aside, while I will readily agree that the power requirements for such teleportation are extreme (hence why such action is so rare), i find it hard to believe rhey are more extreme than breaking through to a whole other universe.

IRL, there is no such thing as "another universe" for us. Therefore, the very idea of breaking through to one is completely fictional. Thus the storyteller can state decide easy or hard they want it to be within the story and we'd have to accept that.
 
"Extremely powerful" is one thing. Being able to cross light years is another, orders of magnitude beyond. If they had that kind of power available to them, their battles would have gone very differently.
As for using the BoD to assist, you may recall Shamal agonized over using a few pages just to cast that barrier breaking spell to free them in A's ep4(ish?)? That wouldn't even be a blip on the energy needed to leave the solar system.

Think. You're saying some people have to contain the power of starships within their bodies. Yet, somehow, they struggle to project kiloton level firepower to fight each other. You don't see the contradiction there?
How would the battles have gone differently? Fate and Nanoha are both on the same tier of power. And Chrono is a perfect example that raw power isn't everything as he repeatedly beats Fate in duels for the first few years of her time with the TSAB despite being vastly weaker in terms of raw power. As for Shamal's reluctance to burn through the Book's pages, one of the Book's big powers that makes it so dangerous is that it can transport across vast distances. So it almost certainly has some mechanism for doing so that doesn't burn pages. Or maybe the problem is that Shamal had to brute force the barrier, which caused the spell to use vastly more power than it would have otherwise needed.

Except the Arthra arrives and starts looking for the Garden (they don't know it's the Garden, true. But they'd know Fate has an offworld lair) If it's oh so close that Fate doesn't need to teleport light years, or even light seconds, they would have seen it in short order.
Or, you know, it could have been hidden. We know basically nothing about the Dimensional Sea and how it operates. It's entirely possible that the Garden stuck away somewhere hidden but nearby. I can think of at least three different ways. Fist, sensors just aren't that good. Second, it had 'folded' the Dimensional Sea around itself somehow. Third, it was hidden by some kind of natural "terrain" in the Dimensional Sea.

IRL, there is no such thing as "another universe" for us. Therefore, the very idea of breaking through to one is completely fictional. Thus the storyteller can state decide easy or hard they want it to be within the story and we'd have to accept that.
I agree. The problem is that MGLN never bothers to explain any of this and so we are left with speculation and theory. I simply feel that treating the Dimensional Sea as their version of hyperspace is simpler and leads to fewer additonal questions.
 
How would the battles have gone differently?
They would have been swinging attacks powerful enough to level the city all the time. They may be able to shield on the same level, but the environment around them wouldn't. Yet, when they throw powerful attacks, they aren't that powerful.

one of the Book's big powers that makes it so dangerous is that it can transport across vast distances.
Only because you assume it is teleporting light years already.

I simply feel that treating the Dimensional Sea as their version of hyperspace is simpler and leads to fewer additonal questions.
I find the question of the energy requirements too difficult to ignore. So, multiple dimensions is simpler to me. What questions involved in multiple dimensions do you find difficult?
 
They would have been swinging attacks powerful enough to level the city all the time. They may be able to shield on the same level, but the environment around them wouldn't. Yet, when they throw powerful attacks, they aren't that powerful.
Did you not see their final duel over the Jewel Seeds? They wrecked the entire city they were fighting in.

Only because you assume it is teleporting light years already.
Across multiple dimensions is still 'vast distances'. Just in a different direction.

I find the question of the energy requirements too difficult to ignore. So, multiple dimensions is simpler to me. What questions involved in multiple dimensions do you find difficult?
And I find the energy requirements to travel between dimensions even more difficult to ignore. Basically, questions like what OP asked in this thread, for example. Also stuff like 'how do they avoid going to dimensions where their magic doesn't work?' or 'how do they avoid going to dimensions where the fundamental laws of physics are wildly different and hostile to life?' or 'Why aren't there a bunch of versions of Nanoha running around? Or anyone else?'
 
Did you not see their final duel over the Jewel Seeds? They wrecked the entire city they were fighting in.
As I recall, that was culmulative damge and the finisher attack, right? If they had the power of interstellar FTL, they'd be able to level the city with each. single. basic. attack.

Across multiple dimensions is still 'vast distances'. Just in a different direction.
Is it? That's what I've been trying to say. The storyteller can say it isn't. As a result, I can disregard the energy requirements.

'how do they avoid going to dimensions where their magic doesn't work?'
Magic works in all dimensions they can visit. You can even say magic exists because those dimensions are touched by the Dimensional Sea. Dimensions not touched by the Sea are unreachable, perhaps not even detectable.

'how do they avoid going to dimensions where the fundamental laws of physics are wildly different and hostile to life?'
They'd be so hostile, you couldn't enter them in the first place. Coversely, you don't have to worry about anything from such dimensions coming through.

Also, those two kinds of dimensions would places no one returns from. So the maps would eventually say "stay away"

'Why aren't there a bunch of versions of Nanoha running around? Or anyone else?'
Multiple dimensions and alternate (history) dimensions are different things. The Dimensional Sea clearly doesn't touch alternate dimensions. Even if fanfic writers like to use it that way from time to time.
 
Only because you assume it is teleporting light years already.

I find the question of the energy requirements too difficult to ignore. So, multiple dimensions is simpler to me. What questions involved in multiple dimensions do you find difficult?
The only mages we see do that are Fate, who is explicitly stated to be unusually powerful, and the Wolkenritter, who are all extremely powerful and likely using the Book of Darkness's power reserves to assist in their long range teleports.

All that aside, while I will readily agree that the power requirements for such teleportation are extreme (hence why such action is so rare), i find it hard to believe rhey are more extreme than breaking through to a whole other universe.
Something i will point out here is that there seems to be two types of teleportation in Nanoha, Normal were you travel in the same dimension like what they used to send the defense program into high orbit and dimensional transfer is what is used to travel to different worlds. The one that teleported the defense program into high orbit(about 35,786 Km) is also called super long distance transfer which would indicate that the same dimension transfer is limited to atleast the hight orbit area around the planet in how far it reaches.

The dimensional transfer entry in the databooks says that the longer the distance is to the target the more time and energy it takes to get there and given how long it took for the defense program to reach orbit this seems to apply to same dimension transfer as well. So if dimensional transfer is a faster than light method of travel then the dimensional sea is definitely the reason you can reach a different planet even tough you wouldn't have the energy to teleport there in realspace. Though wether it actually is faster than light travel or going to other dimensions would depend on how you interpret how it works since it's not exactly made clear.

Though it's not like Marvel or DC however since the PSP games shows that going to different timelines is a type of time travel that the psp Version of Eltria can do. And what tranlsated material that i am aware of that describes the dimensional sea says that the worlds are parrallel worlds with their own histories but also call the dimensional sea a hyperspace which is usually connected to faster than light travel. And Iris in the reflection prequel manga says that Earth is "far away on the other end of the universe" from movie Eltria and they get to earth with dimensional transfer. So you can pretty much interpret it how you want to.

Dimensional Transfer

When using Dimensional Transfer Magics, the time used when traveling with transportation depends upon how much relative distance there is between each Dimensional World in question. When the Transfer is done under Individual Power, as the distance to the target world grows farther, the more costly it becomes in terms of Mana, and the time it takes to travel as well. Any attempts to accelerate the process only means it costs even more Mana.
Super Long Distance Transfer:

The act of capturing and transferring the Core done as a team by Shamal, Arf, and Yuuno. While Shamal finds and captures the Core using the Mirror of Travel, Yuuno and Arf designates the Coordinates for the Transfer. With all three of them casting the Transfer Magic at once, they managed to Transfer the Core, which is such an enormous source of Mana that such a move usually is considered impossible, and sent it into high orbit.
Nanoha strikers site
Like Nanoha's own World, in Dimensional Space there are many "Worlds", and each exists as parallel worlds, and have there own histories. This is what is called "Dimensional Worlds", and between world to world there is a hyper space called Dimensional Space that connects them.

The worlds who develop enough abilities to go to other worlds (which means developing ships that could travel within Dimensional Space) are not rare, and they are administered under the fair care of the Time-Space Administration Bureau. Within them, the one world where Magical Technology is known to be the most stable is "Midchilda", and this is where the Headquarters of the Ground Forces are set in. Upon Midchilda, Magic is a technology that relies upon "Programs", which is then triggered by Spells or Concentration. Those trained to use Magic are known as Mages, and they show their strengths at the TSAB during Disaster Relief and Criminal Investigations, and even outside the Bureau, they show their abilities in many different ways.
Nanoha a's website description
Like Nanoha's own World,
In Dimensional Space there are many "Worlds",
and each exists as parallel worlds, and have there own histories.
This is what is called "Dimensional Worlds",
and between world to world there is a hyper space called Dimensional Space that connects them,
with ships that can sail between them.

Any world that gains the ability to sail to another world,
will meet and receive the proper care from the Time-Space Administration Bureau,
which is overseen by many worlds along with Midchilda,
the most stable world and one that has the most flourishing Magical Technology.

To worlds that have yet to develop their own way to cross worlds,
Unless they cause incidents or accidents that affect different worlds,
the Bureau Laws define them as to be out of bound of their jurisdiction.
 
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