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May The Invisible Hand Be With You - (Star Wars CK2-Style Quest)

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No, what it is is me getting more annoyed at people poking at something and derailing the thread. In a way that started with insults at a character because he had a freak out (OMG he freaked out and acted irrationally!) and declaring that it should be non-canon despite the QM having approved it well, well in advance.
 
Skywalker_T-65 said:
No, what it is is me getting more annoyed at people poking at something and derailing the thread. In a way that started with insults at a character because he had a freak out (OMG he freaked out and acted irrationally!) and declaring that it should be non-canon despite the QM having approved it well, well in advance.
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It's a plot hole. A rather large one. People are allowed to point those out.
 
It isn't though.

People can have mental breakdowns, and it doesn't mean there's some long-running thing that people would see. Someone can be completely fine and get stuck in a situation that is beyond what they can handle. This isn't a fiction thing, this is a real life thing. You can have all the psych people in the world looking at someone (and they won't pry too deep if there isn't some self-evident reason to) and they won't see anything. Someone having a mental breakdown, no matter how much reason you may think for people to watch them, is not a plot hole.

You may not like it, but it is not a plot hole.

@Dr. Snark , sorry, this is just bugging me. I'll stop now.
 
Skywalker_T-65 said:
(and they won't pry too deep if there isn't some self-evident reason to)
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You mean like the person in question being a grey force user in an organization that keeps careful eyes on those people to make sure they don't go full on UNLIMITED POWER! Or said person being on a deep cover mission which is inherently emotionally stressful? Or him being on that mission specifically because he was suffering from PTSD after nearly being killed in the field and he wanted a noncombatant posting?
 
Dr. Snark said:
Right now the Commerce Guild is currently debating who's going to take charge. SoroSuub's Bribbs seems to be an obvious favorite for the succession, but with your influence and the dirt Fry and Priam have gotten on the rest of the Guild you could option virtually any candidate and have them win. Still, it's not a huge priority and the final decision can wait until after you've dealt with the more pressing issues of Honoghr, Talzin, and Trench.

Rewards: Shu Mai effortlessly ousted. Additional benefits to be determined by vote during Part 2 of the turn results.
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As for who should take over the Commerce Guild, here are some candidates:
- Beolar Bribbs: CEO of SoroSuub Corporation, ally of Seti Ashgad
- Clat'Ha: Operations Manager for Arcona Mineral Harvest Corporation, ally of Obi-Wan Kenobi
- Amita Fonti: Gossam Senator to the Separatist Parliament, ally of Mina Bonteri
- Notluwiski Papanoida: head of Pantoran Assembly and Papanoida Entertainment (a new ally with business experience, though mainly on the PR side. He would need to join the Commerce Guild first, though...)
- OC: we have allies in the Wookie Trade Guild, Corellia Merchant Guild, InterGalactic Banking Clans, Adascorp, and others. Pick one.

We could also pick a leader from our own organization:
- Ciaran Parsa: head of Abyss Watchers, Karada Corporation, Silver Cross, Abysswalkers, Iris Network, Council of Neutral Systems (assuming direct control...)
- Priam (PR-1): heavily upgraded protocol droid with human-like body (if we want to fight for droid rights...)
- Mungo Baobab: heir of the Baobab Merchant Fleet (this would require the Baobab family to first join the Commerce Guild)
- Talesan Fry: CEO of Fry Industries (likewise, Fry would need to join the Commerce Guild, and recover from his rampant paranoia...)
- Borvo the Hutt: head of Nal Rata Criminal Empire (he is our Stewardship advisor, though inviting a Hutt to take over...)
- OC: rather than pick one of our advisors/heroes, we could install a previously unnamed character as the public face for leading the Commerce Guild, so Ciaran can continue to act behind the scenes


If someone wants to write an omake, sketching a new character that could plausibly be elected as Presidente of the Commerce Guild, I think that would be a perfect solution here. We already have a lot of businesses and investments across the galaxy, and there must be some non-droid administrators and managers in our organization.

For instance: who is in charge of the Karada Corporation? (Sure, Ciaran tells them what to do, and Cheriss runs the research, but someone must manage the day-to-day operations, given that it is a galaxy-spanning medical company). Who runs Lhosan Industries, our swoop-bike company headquartered on Taris?

We have active Tradeports attached to most of our bases/planets, and it's not much of a stretch to imagine that those are tied together by a loose network so we know what goods are in demand and where the supply is cheapest. We have planetary 'Development Programs' for Kalee, Castell, and Naboo, infrastructure programs on Kashyyyk and Muunilist, and economic planning offices on Taris. We have Muun Bankers.

Even without the need to determine the next Commerce Guild leader, there are a lot of possibilities here for characters and stories.
 
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Well, certain discussions I will not get involved in aside from telling people to chill a bit. I have more important matters to settle right now.

Nami Tetra said:
There is only so much material you can use, so yes.
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You underestimate my power! I have the high ground! Beware the power of this fully armed and operational brick factory! *Prepares the next couple of walls*
 
I'm going to say something controversial, I don't think we should back a 'neutral' candidate for the leadership of the Commerce Guild. If anything we want either a vigorous Separatist or a Dooku lackey. I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out.

We want the Clone Wars to keep going and we definitely want the Republic not to win, as least in its current form with Palpatine in charge and a corrupt Senate. We need someone who's going to double down and give the CIS a boost to its war footing, I'd even argue that the preferable scenario is the Seperatists breaking the stalemate.

War wariness in the Republic is at a high, even with Palpatine trying to keep the war effort going. A few key propaganda victories for the CIS (destruction of the Pride of the Core, pushing the lines back, maybe a couple of high profile assassinations [looks at HK-47]) would spark protests calling for peace. This momentum could act as a launch platform for when we hit the big button. After all a coup now looks like a power grab, a coup after this looks like following the will of the people.
 
Whumbly said:
I'm going to say something controversial, I don't think we should back a 'neutral' candidate for the leadership of the Commerce Guild. If anything we want either a vigorous Separatist or a Dooku lackey. I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out.

We want the Clone Wars to keep going and we definitely want the Republic not to win, as least in its current form with Palpatine in charge and a corrupt Senate. We need someone who's going to double down and give the CIS a boost to its war footing, I'd even argue that the preferable scenario is the Seperatists breaking the stalemate.

War wariness in the Republic is at a high, even with Palpatine trying to keep the war effort going. A few key propaganda victories for the CIS (destruction of the Pride of the Core, pushing the lines back, maybe a couple of high profile assassinations [looks at HK-47]) would spark protests calling for peace. This momentum could act as a launch platform for when we hit the big button. After all a coup now looks like a power grab, a coup after this looks like following the will of the people.
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An interesting idea. I personally would prefer to take the post our self, for the likely huge income boosts, trade agreements, etc.
 
Whumbly said:
War wariness in the Republic is at a high, even with Palpatine trying to keep the war effort going. A few key propaganda victories for the CIS (destruction of the Pride of the Core, pushing the lines back, maybe a couple of high profile assassinations [looks at HK-47]) would spark protests calling for peace.
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Or spark protests calling for more power to the Chancellor to prosecute the war more effectively. We need to be careful that something like that doesn't backfire on us. Hell, the public may start blaming the conspicuously neutral faction that's sitting there not helping save the republic from the blatantly evil separatists!
 
Whumbly said:
I'm going to say something controversial, I don't think we should back a 'neutral' candidate for the leadership of the Commerce Guild. If anything we want either a vigorous Separatist or a Dooku lackey. I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out.

We want the Clone Wars to keep going and we definitely want the Republic not to win, as least in its current form with Palpatine in charge and a corrupt Senate. We need someone who's going to double down and give the CIS a boost to its war footing, I'd even argue that the preferable scenario is the Seperatists breaking the stalemate.

War wariness in the Republic is at a high, even with Palpatine trying to keep the war effort going. A few key propaganda victories for the CIS (destruction of the Pride of the Core, pushing the lines back, maybe a couple of high profile assassinations [looks at HK-47]) would spark protests calling for peace. This momentum could act as a launch platform for when we hit the big button. After all a coup now looks like a power grab, a coup after this looks like following the will of the people.
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I wish we didn't kill Wat Tambor now. His death hurt the separatists too much if our goal is to keep the war going.

Publicola said:
How so? We oust Shu Mai, blame all of the Separatist shenanigans on her, take over in our own name and re-align the Commerce Guild with the CNS... how would that affect our reputation?
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If we had enough power to put our self on top of the Commerce Guild than we were obviously in bed with the CIS all along. It would be an absurdly hard spin, especially against Palp's own narrative trying to demonize us as a war profiteer (which is true). We don't need to many scandals if we can avoid it and it's better to just put a pasty in it instead of trying to pull another separatist institution into our web of "neutrality".
 
HavocKeeper said:
If we had enough power to put our self on top of the Commerce Guild than we were obviously in bed with the CIS all along. It would be an absurdly hard spin, especially against Palp's own narrative trying to demonize us as a war profiteer (which is true). We don't need to many scandals if we can avoid it and it's better to just put a pasty in it instead of trying to pull another separatist institution into our web of "neutrality".
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Have them pivot to CNS and then elect Ciaran as a signal of that change, rather than electing Ciaran and then going CNS.
 
Whumbly said:
Thing is we don't want to weaken the Separatist too much, so it might be better installing a pro-CIS leader and then doing business deals to bring the wealth to the CNS.
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Yeah. The moment either the CIS or Republic cracks too much shit hits the fan as Palpatine has/had/has had/will have/would have/would have had/wadehadedudeda enough plans to tip the balance completely then and end the war. After all, we have allready seen that he can simply overrule Count Dooku if required so not even Dooku being on our side means 'definite' control of the CIS war effort.
 
Teron said:
Yeah. The moment either the CIS or Republic cracks too much shit hits the fan as Palpatine has/had/has had/will have/would have/would have had/wadehadedudeda enough plans to tip the balance completely then and end the war. After all, we have allready seen that he can simply overrule Count Dooku if required so not even Dooku being on our side means 'definite' control of the CIS war effort.
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Sure, but a solid majority of the CIS probably doesn't know about him at all, or shouldn't. Those portions should simply follow Dooku. And the fact that he can't simply send the droid shutdown command from Coruscant shows he does not have the ability to directly command the droid armies. Trench and the Malevolence are likely a significant portion of the forces he can directly command.
 
HavocKeeper said:
That wouldn't work. Shu Mai might be gone, but they are still one of the CIS founders. It would come across as them attempting to flee the consequences of a losing war rather than a genuine turn.
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Not really. The politics are complicated, but there's considerable evidence for a 'genuine turn.' After the Battle of Naboo, the fall of the Trade Federation caused a ten-year galactic recession that hit the planet of Castell hard. The Commerce Guild intervened, and basically bought out most of the planet (though, in this story, Ciaran managed to buy out many of the nicest investments before the Commerce Guild could get to them). Shu Mai started out as a minor player, but she was trusted by the Commerce Guild as a minor functionary, and used her power to gain more. Over about a decade, she went from a minor employee, to Chief of Property Resources, and was eventually given an offer to buy out most of the planet's debt. She did, but rather than freeing Castell, she turned the planet into her own personal cash cow, and leveraged it to gain additional power in the Commerce Guild writ large. Presumably through the support of Sidious and his allies, most of her rivals were discredited or killed, and she ascended the ladder to become the Presidente of the Commerce Guild shortly before the Separatist Crisis led to war.

All that to say: pretty much the entire driving force between the Commerce Guild joining the CIS was Shu Mai. Neither Castell (homeworld of the Gossam, that Shu Mai enslaved) nor the Guild itself can be held responsible for it. In fact, given that Shu Mai conspired to assassinate pretty much any opposition, it would be really easy to blame her for all of it (especially considering that it's true).

Given that we just allied ourselves with a media mogul, it would be really easy to bring the galaxy around to our side of the story.


EDIT: it also helps that the Gossam Senator to the CIS Parliament (Amita Fonti) was an ally of Mina Bonteri and a strong advocate of reaching peace with the Republic. Shu Mai might have been the Presidente, but the evidence indicates she was more of a 'lone wolf' rather than a genuine representative of both a species and a megacorporation.
 
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We don't want to continue the war any longer than we are forced to. If the war ends without providing Palapatine the popularity and justification to proclaim himself Emperor, he's going to go to pieces. He isn't prepared to relinquish power. I mean, it'll be go time as he'll immediately try to launch a military coup, but we're already starting to gut his control infrastructure (chips & key personnel) and planning on killing him.

If the war draws down due to our efforts, and we hammer that Palpatine's inflexibility and overly warlike manner is why it hasn't ended already (and have some talking heads point out how he'd have to step down as Supreme Chancellor due to only still being in the post despite term limits due to the war, and that perhaps there is a conflict of interest), and contrast how the CNS has done more to end the war through peaceful means like negotiation and removal of obstacles (ousting Shu Mai) than Palpatine. If his popularity drops enough in the senate, ending the war puts him into a forced move which perfectly justifies what we were already planning on doing, killing Palpatine.
 
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It seems something I wrote off as being a small thing has become a bigger thing. (How about that, life imitating art!)

First of all? I'd like to see Lancelot write better stuff here than me. No, seriously, I would. I'd be excited to read more people creating good content for this thing. I'm excited about the flurry of omakes coming up soon.

Secondly? I'm pretty sure Lancelot's authority about what's canon and what's not is not remotely near Snark's. We talked about this stuff. Worked it out. Poked back and forth at it. Snark determines what goes into Snark's story and what doesn't.

Thirdly? I'm going to say this once, because apparently reading comprehension and actually following continuity is something of a struggle for people sometimes.

I did my homework to write my stuff. Do yours before you challenge it.

The Darra Situation. THIS is how we took it all away. said:
Darra, as I researched and inquired of others who have been with this thread longer than I have (back in the first thread!) had her spinal column injured during an operation that the Abyss Watchers were involved in. This resulted in her needing a prosthetic right arm and leg, along with the associated neural interface replacement. Her choices were these: use prosthetics associated with the people who she felt were responsible for her being maimed in the first place and see them regularly for maintenance...or don't see them for maintenance and slowly become gimpier and gimpier and get taken off active duty (and stop seeing all the Jedi you grew up with--like losing all your friends and all your family and your purpose in life in one fell swoop. Thus, "everything she ever cared about", Q.E.D.)
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Throw into this situation, Riphath at the time.

Why Riphath Lost His Mind said:
A guy who had been running from PTSD due to getting very nearly killed because of biting off more than he could chew. (Not dark side; just ordinary pathopsychology.) Who had an unhealthy (and ongoing) awareness that there was no exit from this line of work, and that it was going to get more dangerous. (Grievous' long walk with vornskrs and ysalamiri didn't actually help. It just provided some lousy coping mechanisms.)

Talk around this time mentioned how many death flags he'd been throwing and there was probably a subconscious sense of how close some of his brushes with death had been.

Throw in the fact that most psych screenings are done in an environment that is not likely to create additional stressors and that they're pretty easy to fool if you don't want to raise red flags, and very little in terms of screenings is going to do anything.

Grievous tried to intervene because of his PTSD stuff. One of his Force Mentors tried to intervene for the same thing. Psych stuff is hard to fix, doubly so when it runs into an existing character trait (his insecurity, which has been part of the character since Matukai Meditation Room at the very least. It drives him to excel, but if he doesn't excel he tends to internalize failure.)

He saw an opportunity to get away from the Push Towards Perceived Inevitable Death and ran for it. Doubly so when he initially thought he'd be able to glad-hand, do the one thing he was actually good at, and "hide" from being a Walker.

DragonParadox had a good point. (He was isolated in a strange environment with none of his usual support structure and and placed under unexpected pressures. Someone made a bad call by sending him off to a be as spy, but that is understandable since he was not blatantly unstable then.) I might addend that the person who made a bad call by sending him off to be a spy was him, and that he probably missed several different "mental state" appointments because Extended Covert Missions are not a good place for regular appointments. It's worth noting that part of Riphath's characterization is that he's probably about as Light Side as is possible for an Abyss Watcher to be, so he probably wasn't monitored as closely because he wasn't a Dark Side Megalomaniac Threat. It's also worth noting that there's some Dark Side Taint on Tython that probably was aggravating any mental/emotional problems he was having.

When Riphath's cover got blown and things went bad, it threw more failure fuel onto the PTSD-insecurity-internalize failure fire.
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With that? I am done discussing this.

I'm inclined to vote for Priam as head of the Commerce Guild, but I'm a droid-rights guy.
 
Well, I suppose we can at least find the Jedi more relatable, if our organization makes the same mistakes of letting problems slip through the cracks of their vigilance. It will foster better diplomacy with them.
 
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