Another thing to remember about the Abyss/Jedi divide is that the Jedi are diplomats. A Jedi with an equivalent level of training is going to be far more effective at public speaking, resolving disputes peacefully and making allies than an Abyss Agent.
Ehhh, partially true, but Guardians and Sentinels are a thing and both aren't really trained for diplomacy. I have no doubt that either are better at it than an Abysswalker, but it helps that they train since they're younglings.

Honestly, the comparison only really works when comparing Abysswalkers and Sentinels specifically, since both focus more on stealth and tech than the others.
 
She was winning in direct combat, where she has some seriously unfair advantages due to her Matukai training. Force-based combat is another beast entirely.

Wasn't Dooku on a whole other level in direct combat with lightsabers though?

Like, it was his thing? I could have sworn I read something about Dooku being really good fighting with lightsabers specifically, and nothing of particular note about his Force abilities.

Like the Emp's is his lightning shit, Windu's is his lightsaber style, Vader's is the Choke, and Kylo Ren's was being a little bitch and losing to untrained peasants?
 
Wasn't Dooku on a whole other level in direct combat with lightsabers though?

Like, it was his thing? I could have sworn I read something about Dooku being really good fighting with lightsabers specifically, and nothing of particular note about his Force abilities.

Like the Emp's is his lightning shit, Windu's is his lightsaber style, Vader's is the Choke, and Kylo Ren's was being a little bitch and losing to untrained peasants?
He's the current master of form two, but he's also the one that taught it to Ciaran. She know more about his style than he knows about hers. It counts for a lot.
 
Wasn't Dooku on a whole other level in direct combat with lightsabers though?

Like, it was his thing? I could have sworn I read something about Dooku being really good fighting with lightsabers specifically, and nothing of particular note about his Force abilities.

Like the Emp's is his lightning shit, Windu's is his lightsaber style, Vader's is the Choke, and Kylo Ren's was being a little bitch and losing to untrained peasants?

He's the current master of form two, but he's also the one that taught it to Ciaran. She know more about his style than he knows about hers. It counts for a lot.

That, and being able to move at incredibly high speeds and hit like a runaway freight train. That also helps quite a bit.

I admit I'm exaggerating, but the fact is that Ciaran can simply move faster and hit harder than most people now. Combined with her knowing how Form II works quite well and being a talented lightsaber duelist period and you've got a lot of advantages for Ciaran in a straight-up fight, especially against Dooku.
 
That, and being able to move at incredibly high speeds and hit like a runaway freight train. That also helps quite a bit.

I admit I'm exaggerating, but the fact is that Ciaran can simply move faster and hit harder than most people now. Combined with her knowing how Form II works quite well and being a talented lightsaber duelist period and you've got a lot of advantages for Ciaran in a straight-up fight, especially against Dooku.
Now I kinda want to throw her into the foundry to see what Dr. Snark comes up with her combat bonuses.

And to get her some experience in dealing with a mass of enemy units.​
 
(Omake) Aftermath Of Major Malevolent (Canon)
Aftermath of Major Malevolent

Bright white fills his vision as Koliya Karrosi opens his bright golden eyes and lets out a low groan, his body feels as though its gone ten rounds with an angry Wookie. His mind is fuzzy, unable to remember how he got here, but he recognises the annoying brightness from the ceiling of The Home's infirmary and raises a black furred paw to cover his eyes.

From beside him there's a husky, dry chuckle, "well looks like the furball's up."

Koliya turns his head to see white on white as vision burred, reforming into a pale familiar figure. A headache emerged as a flash of memory it him.

"You furball," a pale and deceptively strong hand shoots out to grab the collar of his shirt and starts dragging the larger Agent along the corridor with surprisingly swiftness, the voice is searingly hot with anger, "I need a sparring partner."

Asajj Ventress is lying on the bed next to him, pale grey contrasting with a jet black and roughed up sparring attire. A large number of cuts and large bruises dot her visible skin and Koliya is sure that under his fur is a similar situation. He reaches out in the Force, to try and understand what she feels, but stops as he feels nothing, but a cold hollow void. Koliya is good at hiding his emotions, but Ventress can probably see the confused panic in his eyes because she turns her head and glares with all her worth at the offending figure.

Koliya follows her gaze to the opposite side of the room and comes to rest on the legendary image of Thrawn, sitting calmly in one of the uncomfortable waiting chairs, a Force-to-honest paperback in his hands calming reading away at some historic text. A large brown lizard drapes itself across the military genius's neck like a scarf, blissfully unaware of the annoyance it is receiving from two sets of eyes. Koliya notes the lizard isn't clinging to the shirt, but something underneath it... a portable version of those branches. Huh, no wonder Thrawn looked calm.

"So it would seem," Thrawn looks up from his book, a free hand idly stroking the chin of the lizard, "Agent Karrosi, I presume you are well enough for a conversation."

Koliya licks his lips and from his mouth comes a voice comes something unexpected, calm, sophisticated and smooth, "as long as I don't have to stand up."

Thrawn masks his looks well, but the slight movement of his head gives away a sense of curiosity. Ventress is not nearly as subtle, her gaze scrutinising, "mind tell why a Cathar has a Core accent?"

Koliya gives a small smile, a pure mixture of nervousness and attempted charm, showing hard scrubbed and sharp teeth, "vocal implant," he replies, rubbing at his throat, "it helped during my time as a Watcher," the smile continues to placate the Sith Exile's curiosity... it doesn't work, "and I didn't like my own voice. It was embarrassing."

Ventress gives one of her looks (trademark smirk #4), but is interrupted before for the teasing can continue.

"Before you two divulge into the antics of a class of younglings," Thrawn cut in, "I do believe we need to focus on what happened."

...agents dashing out of the sparring arena filled his and those foolish idiots who tried pulling out holo-recorders were dragged out by Blackguard observers, obviously more experienced with similar situations...

"So I got angry," Asajj huffed, "I had every right to be."

"True," Thrawn accepted, "Ciaran could have worded it better. Though that doesn't excuse taking out your frustrations on the first Agent you saw and the sparring arena."

... the ignition of lightsabers, not the training kind. Blood red light illuminates a terrifying face...

"He's fine."

... dodge, duck, parry, keep moving. Distract her with blaster shots, got in for the strike, wear her down, keep aware of your surroundings...

"From the cameras you two didn't destroy," Thrawn drawled, "you tried to kill him in your anger."

... a Force Push slammed him into the wall. There is a reminder of a similar situation when she first arrived...

Ventress' face dropped and she runs a hand through messy white hair, "I wasn't thinking clearly."

"Obviously," Thrawn drawled, "had it been anymore serious Agent Karrosi would have maimed or worse killed."

... leans back, a red blade nipping at the fur on neck...

"Fortunately when the first punch was thrown, you both decided to degrade from a near-lethal spar to a savage brawl,-"

... she is stronger and faster, but he has the size and the will from being afraid and the experience of fighting in brutal semi-legal ring matches. The world becomes fist and elbow, feet and knees, fang and claw as the two roll across the floor...

"-it made it easier for HK to," Thrawn mulled over the words, "calm the situation."

... barely sees a glint of brownish-orange metal before a wave of stun bolts slams into them both, knocking them unconscious.

The two of them sit in silence. Thrawn stares at them both before sighing, "however considering the circumstances, punishing you would not solve anything. You made a error in your judgement, but I believe you will not let it become a mistake. Darth Vectivus has suggested that living in the middle of a Dark Side Nexus might not be entirely healthy for your current mental and emotional state. So, by order of Lady Ciaran, you're being assigned paid vacation for three week."

Ventress seems ready to protest before Thrawn raises a hand, "but I know you Asajj," Koliya blinks at the use of Ventress' first name, "you aren't one to sit around, that's why Agent Karrosi will be accompanying you on a mission to Coruscant. The protest movement against the Jedi Temple is concerning to many people. Thus we need a fresh pair of eyes on the situation."

"You do realise," Ventress replies coldly, "that I'm supposed to be dead."

"Well," Koliya strokes his chin as eyes turns to him, he pauses before continuing, "beyond your Force Cloak that would make you appear normal to the Jedi, you... well I doubt anyone would recognise you. I mean you're no longer Major Malevolent."

Ventress glared, "Major Malevolent," she repeated slowly.

Koliya squirmed in his seat, "err... your nickname when you first arrived... and Force Pushed Jenkins into a wall hard enough to leave an imprint of his face."

Ventress let out a hiss, "yeah I was not a good person."

"Well you've changed and not just the hair," Koliya replied, "a little training and the right clothes I doubt even Kenobi would recognise you."

A whimsical look crossed the Sith-Exile's face, turning to look at Thrawn, "we won't be going near the Jedi Temple?"

Thrawn nodded, "can't afford for you to be revealed... well not yet."

Ventress smiled, a cold, dark smile, "yes, remember if Ciaran succeeds, I want to be able to surprise the old man."

"Acceptable," Thrawn's voice is clipped, "and Agent Karrosi," ears swivel, "when you're feeling better, report to Lady Ciaran," the smallest of upturns of the corners of his mouth, "I wish I could say more, but... I'm really not a liberty to say."

With that he departed the room, leaving the two of them to feel the Force return. Koliya mulling over the words as his mind pieced things together. For all the secrecy, people talked and he listened and it wasn't hard to figure it out. Neither it seemed was Ventress finding any difficulty.

"So congratulations is an order," the words are dry as they both stare at each other in a awkward silence, "you said something about the right clothes."

Koliya gave a charming smile, his training allowing him to mask the daunting process of personally helping Ventress with a important mission, "I used to be a Watcher. We had to take on a lot of roles," his eyes look up and down Ventress, gauging her size and the way she walks, "what's your opinion on Bounty Hunters?"

OCC: my submission for new Abysswalker, Koliya Karrosi, the Cathar ex-Watcher.
 
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"Statement: It sounds like that is all then."

"Unit 7 queries HK-47: Can request for additional oil baths for Units be sent to Chief Engineer Sair?"

"Unit 1 responds: Unit 7's request may be treated as irrelevant."

"Unit 5 responds: Unit 1 does not speak for majority of Units."

"Unit 4 queries: Is Unit 1's processor malfunctioning?"

.... so the spider droids are now Tachikoma... got it : P
 
More musings on Jedi vs Abysswalkers, I'd wager that with the addition of Matukai to their repertoire the Jedi who would most reliably defeat an Abysswalker would be the Consular Jedi, those most deeply immersed in the Force, they'd be more likely to pierce their veil, be more able to render physical combat (and thus the great strength of Matukai) irrelevant and be better able to foresee the usage of ranged weaponry or explosives.

I see Guardians as generally winning straight fights but perhaps getting caught by surprise by unexpected strength and stamina, leaving aside the benefits of ambush of course, however an Abysswalker that fails to strike a decisive blow in their ambush is going to be in serious trouble.

I think Sentinels (and Shadows) would be a bit paradoxical, they're the biggest threat on the organisational level but I wager Abysswalkers would be flat out better sneaks.

Of course, Jedi rarely work alone and Abysswalkers are too valuable to try and get any sort of numbers advantage.
 
Wasn't Dooku on a whole other level in direct combat with lightsabers though?

Like, it was his thing? I could have sworn I read something about Dooku being really good fighting with lightsabers specifically, and nothing of particular note about his Force abilities.

Like the Emp's is his lightning shit, Windu's is his lightsaber style, Vader's is the Choke, and Kylo Ren's was being a little bitch and losing to untrained peasants?
KYLO REN JUST GOT SHOT WITH THAT FUCKING BOWCASTER, SOMETHING THAT IS SHOWN TO GO THROUGH STORM TROOPER ARMOR AND KILL MEN!!!!!!!
HE THEN GOT RIGHT THE FUCK UP AND CHASED AFTER THE TWO ASSHOLES. ALSO ONE OF THEM WAS A STORM TROOPER THAT WAS TRAINED FOR HIS WHOLE LIFE AS A SOLDIER AND THE OTHER WAS A WASTER THAT NEW HOW TO SURVIVE HER WHOLE LIFE *ALONE* ON A HOSTILE DESERT PLANET!!!!!
HE WAS NOT A LITTLE BITCH, HE WAS SOMEONE THAT GOT HIT WITH A *FUCKING BOW CASTER* AND WALKED IT THE FUCK OFF AND THEN GOT INTO A PITCHED FUCKING BATTLE HE ALMOST WON.
sorry, but it irks me when people dis kylo of that ok?
also that abyss walker cather is kinda cool, he does not realy have much of a gimmick besides maby being like james bond with his watcher stuff.
 
KYLO REN JUST GOT SHOT WITH THAT FUCKING BOWCASTER, SOMETHING THAT IS SHOWN TO GO THROUGH STORM TROOPER ARMOR AND KILL MEN!!!!!!!
HE THEN GOT RIGHT THE FUCK UP AND CHASED AFTER THE TWO ASSHOLES. ALSO ONE OF THEM WAS A STORM TROOPER THAT WAS TRAINED FOR HIS WHOLE LIFE AS A SOLDIER AND THE OTHER WAS A WASTER THAT NEW HOW TO SURVIVE HER WHOLE LIFE *ALONE* ON A HOSTILE DESERT PLANET!!!!!
HE WAS NOT A LITTLE BITCH, HE WAS SOMEONE THAT GOT HIT WITH A *FUCKING BOW CASTER* AND WALKED IT THE FUCK OFF AND THEN GOT INTO A PITCHED FUCKING BATTLE HE ALMOST WON.
sorry, but it irks me when people dis kylo of that ok?
also that abyss walker cather is kinda cool, he does not realy have much of a gimmick besides maby being like james bond with his watcher stuff.

Dude, chill. Kylo Ren has been less impressive than the various other villains in the SW movies so far, so until he makes a better showing people are going to mock him.
 
Movie Night at the Oracle

The better question is "when didn't the Abyss Watcher Life resemble an action movie?" Canon, +10.

Aftermath of Major Malevolent

...I never realized how much I wanted a psychic lion-man commando until just now. Canon, +10.

Dude, chill. Kylo Ren has been less impressive than the various other villains in the SW movies so far, so until he makes a better showing people are going to mock him.

Plus there is that SNL skit that's basically an 5-minute long session of taking the absolute piss out of him.

When his own actor freely mocks him you gotta admit it makes it a lot easier to make fun of Kylo.
 
also that abyss walker cather is kinda cool, he does not realy have much of a gimmick besides maby being like james bond with his watcher stuff.

Considering the Abysswalkers are technically only minor characters in the Great Scheme, I don't have to expand him completely until a later episode. Right now all I've given is that he's a ex-Watcher, changed his voice to something more upper class, seems to have an eye for disguise and used to be a semi-legal ring fighter.

Dude, chill. Kylo Ren has been less impressive than the various other villains in the SW movies so far, so until he makes a better showing people are going to mock him.

Yeah, since TFA was practically ANH Mark II, Kylo got compared to Darth Vader and if you're trying to compare anybody to Vader by Villain Impressiveness... well it does not compare well... except for one guy:

 
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sorry about freaking out about that, i know he is pretty mockable, but still, he got shot by THE bow caster and kept on going, its a impressive thing when you think about it.
 
Forgive me if i make any enemies with the next question, but I am not really familiar with the expanded universe.

What is the chance that Jabba the Hutts child being force sensitive? I ask because I can see Jabba deciding to "foster" his child with Lady Ciaran so he can both learn to control his abilities (without joining the Jedi) as well as learning useful skills. Then at some point Ventress is tapped to be the huttlet's babysitter as Ciaran is a busy lady. Que fast forward to the future where Obi Wan runs into Ventress again at one of Ciarans properties and Ciaran introduces her as "Ventress Force Nanny."
 
Forgive me if i make any enemies with the next question, but I am not really familiar with the expanded universe.

What is the chance that Jabba the Hutts child being force sensitive? I ask because I can see Jabba deciding to "foster" his child with Lady Ciaran so he can both learn to control his abilities (without joining the Jedi) as well as learning useful skills. Then at some point Ventress is tapped to be the huttlet's babysitter as Ciaran is a busy lady. Que fast forward to the future where Obi Wan runs into Ventress again at one of Ciarans properties and Ciaran introduces her as "Ventress Force Nanny."

Statistically.... HIGHLY IMPROBABLE. In all of Star Wars Media there are TWO Force Senstive Hutts and they both end up falling to the Dark Side and becoming generally bad things for the Galaxy.
 
Statistically.... HIGHLY IMPROBABLE. In all of Star Wars Media there are TWO Force Senstive Hutts and they both end up falling to the Dark Side and becoming generally bad things for the Galaxy.

Funnily enough Ciaran's met one of the two if you recall!

She was as massively baffled by it as any other sane being would be.
 

Now I kinda want to throw her into the foundry to see what Dr. Snark comes up with her combat bonuses.

And to get her some experience in dealing with a mass of enemy units.​

Y'know the old 2D Clone Wars cartoon? Picture all the scenes of Mace 'The Ace' Windu punching battle droids except he's also telekinetic-ly wielding the Moonlight Greatsword and the BFG9000.

I'm exaggerating, but not by much.
 
First of many variations, I'm sure:

From left to right: Guess who, Liara as the Shadow Broker, Julie Fucking D'Aubigny
 
KYLO REN JUST GOT SHOT WITH THAT FUCKING BOWCASTER, SOMETHING THAT IS SHOWN TO GO THROUGH STORM TROOPER ARMOR AND KILL MEN!!!!!!!
HE THEN GOT RIGHT THE FUCK UP AND CHASED AFTER THE TWO ASSHOLES.
Fair enough, that's pretty impressive all said. However, it was shot very poorly in the way he managed to outrun them for some reason rather than just catching up. Little complaints otherwise.
ALSO ONE OF THEM WAS A STORM TROOPER THAT WAS TRAINED FOR HIS WHOLE LIFE AS A SOLDIER AND THE OTHER WAS A WASTER THAT NEW HOW TO SURVIVE HER WHOLE LIFE *ALONE* ON A HOSTILE DESERT PLANET!!!!!
Stormtroopers are a joke and a half when compared to any named force user. They are cannon fodder. Rey never trained with a lightsaber or the Force and the terrain on Giga-Deluxe-Deathstar the Third was forest and snow, which invalidates her adaptation to deserts. Meanwhile, he was trained by darksiders...
HE WAS NOT A LITTLE BITCH, HE WAS SOMEONE THAT GOT HIT WITH A *FUCKING BOW CASTER* AND WALKED IT THE FUCK OFF AND THEN GOT INTO A PITCHED FUCKING BATTLE HE ALMOST WON.
sorry, but it irks me when people dis kylo of that ok?
Most of it comes from his horrible attitude, cringy dialogue and villain worship. Also being as edgy as possible for no reason reason other than wanting to emulate Vader, the epitome of Cold Rage. Killing Han and now (almost certainly) Leia doesn't help things at all.
 
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