Welp, there goes that hope of obfuscation.
As for powers, I'm pretty sure the Jedi will be able to tell the Agents are trained in the Force, not hugely like them but certainly more so than 'lucky' fighters.
May The Invisible Hand Be With You - (Star Wars CK2-Style Quest)
- Thread starter Dr. Snark
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star wars canon what canon tsundere dice ck2 quest actions have consequences all the credits all work and no play makes ciaran a dull girl best sister capitalism ho! despairing qm teetotaller society member gotta catch 'em all insanity looting off the rails sage dice approaching spicy sheev tsundere asajj
Welp, there goes that hope of obfuscation.
As for powers, I'm pretty sure the Jedi will be able to tell the Agents are trained in the Force, not hugely like them but certainly more so than 'lucky' fighters.
- Location
- Australia
@Dr. Snark, are we getting any bounty money from killing Durge? Dude's killed Jedi, clone troopers, and Mandalorians, so he's probably got a price on his head.
- Location
- Internet, The
In my mind, the boss-fight will be in several stages, with Ciaran entering after Sidious has survived the first few, and then she manages to put the weakened Sith Lord down after her dramatic reveal.
In particular, I imagine that Sidious will first be confronted in his office by the Jedi, while Ciaran's various heavy hitters surround the place to either lend aid or to slow him down if he tries to escape. Ciaran, Thrawn and a few others will act as overwatch, probably on a spaceship over the city. Perhaps with a small fleet to stop him if he manages to get on a ship of his own.
Sidious, either upon noticing the signs, or after being attacked, decides that the current fight is not to his advantage and tries to disengage and flee. The first epic battles and assorted chase scenes follow, all the while Sidious tries to enact his various emergency plans (Order 66, hidden battle droid groups, bombs to take the Senate hostage, whatever) He might be killed and enter one of his clones, if I remember that discussion right.
Of course, all that is not enough to stop Sidious, who manages to escape the encirclement and hide long enough to home in on a secret space-ship with which he might escape the planet. Ciaran, of course, notices this and tries to intervene. Her own ship comes close, and to the surprise of everyone, she jumps from the ship. Turns out, that she also learned that one force style that makes you super tough and strong people have been mentioning. The reason for her jump was that, upon seeing Sidious' ship she noticed the perfect opportunity to combine her strenghened body with shatterpoint.
Sidious has just managed to loose his pursuers and is taking off. Ciaran, imitating a shonen protagonist, impacts on the ship feet first, manages to somehow break something critical thanks to the magic of shatterpoint and rides the falling ship down right into the ground.
After that, there is the final final battle between Ciaran and Sidious, all the dramatic reveals à la "Of course I knew that you were Darth Sidious all along! Did you think you could hide from the one and only Dart Traya!?" The fight finally (and dramatically) ends when Sidious' body is destroyed (again, if he has possessed clones before) and Ciaran uses shatterpoint to destroy his force shadow / force phantom.
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I think that got away from me for a moment there. Sorry for any lack of coherence, it was pretty much my stream of consciousness while thinking about how Ciaran would come to have a final battle with Sidious as mandated by @Dr. Snark
In particular, I imagine that Sidious will first be confronted in his office by the Jedi, while Ciaran's various heavy hitters surround the place to either lend aid or to slow him down if he tries to escape. Ciaran, Thrawn and a few others will act as overwatch, probably on a spaceship over the city. Perhaps with a small fleet to stop him if he manages to get on a ship of his own.
Sidious, either upon noticing the signs, or after being attacked, decides that the current fight is not to his advantage and tries to disengage and flee. The first epic battles and assorted chase scenes follow, all the while Sidious tries to enact his various emergency plans (Order 66, hidden battle droid groups, bombs to take the Senate hostage, whatever) He might be killed and enter one of his clones, if I remember that discussion right.
Of course, all that is not enough to stop Sidious, who manages to escape the encirclement and hide long enough to home in on a secret space-ship with which he might escape the planet. Ciaran, of course, notices this and tries to intervene. Her own ship comes close, and to the surprise of everyone, she jumps from the ship. Turns out, that she also learned that one force style that makes you super tough and strong people have been mentioning. The reason for her jump was that, upon seeing Sidious' ship she noticed the perfect opportunity to combine her strenghened body with shatterpoint.
Sidious has just managed to loose his pursuers and is taking off. Ciaran, imitating a shonen protagonist, impacts on the ship feet first, manages to somehow break something critical thanks to the magic of shatterpoint and rides the falling ship down right into the ground.
After that, there is the final final battle between Ciaran and Sidious, all the dramatic reveals à la "Of course I knew that you were Darth Sidious all along! Did you think you could hide from the one and only Dart Traya!?" The fight finally (and dramatically) ends when Sidious' body is destroyed (again, if he has possessed clones before) and Ciaran uses shatterpoint to destroy his force shadow / force phantom.
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I think that got away from me for a moment there. Sorry for any lack of coherence, it was pretty much my stream of consciousness while thinking about how Ciaran would come to have a final battle with Sidious as mandated by @Dr. Snark
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Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
- Location
- Right where I want to be
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Right, while I have a bit of time I want to explain my reasoning behind getting Ciaran directly involved in a battle with Sidious since the argument has been happening over and over again.
Yes, you could get other people to deal with him.
Yes, you could find ways to totally bypass the battle.
Yes, you could cheese it given the chance.
My problem with those solutions is that they wouldn't be anywhere near as satisfying in the slightest. Call me old-fashioned in my desire to have a proper final boss, but I feel like at this point having Palpatine die to either a cheap trick or worse-someone else-would honestly be robbing you, The People, of something at this point. Being able to say that you yourself won would be so much more meaningful, and from a gameplay standpoint it makes things that much more tense with something like that looming in the background.
And to be honest the main reason that's even an option is because I have faith that you can win. It obviously won't be easy, but if I didn't think you guys could pull it off I wouldn't have even made it an option to begin with.
Yes, you could get other people to deal with him.
Yes, you could find ways to totally bypass the battle.
Yes, you could cheese it given the chance.
My problem with those solutions is that they wouldn't be anywhere near as satisfying in the slightest. Call me old-fashioned in my desire to have a proper final boss, but I feel like at this point having Palpatine die to either a cheap trick or worse-someone else-would honestly be robbing you, The People, of something at this point. Being able to say that you yourself won would be so much more meaningful, and from a gameplay standpoint it makes things that much more tense with something like that looming in the background.
And to be honest the main reason that's even an option is because I have faith that you can win. It obviously won't be easy, but if I didn't think you guys could pull it off I wouldn't have even made it an option to begin with.
- Location
- Germany
I think for me the most satisfying solution would be Jedi-masters dying to Palpatine while our hero-units stand in the secnd row to take shots at any opening and Ciaran and Thrawn are in orbit coordinating via com. The actual final strike can come from Skywalker (who is hopefully our Hero-unit by then).
A well-planned, well-executed assault by some of the greatest minds of our time.
But of course GM-opinion takes precedence before mine.
- Location
- Australia
I have to disagree with you on all of these points. From the start of the game we've been playing as the head of a shadow organisation with us engaging in personal action only rarely. Ciaran has got to where she is by her cunning, ruthlessness, luck, and allies, not by her personal combat prowess. To take this character and make her win in a way that goes entirely against her character and her mode of operation is what would be cheating the players in my opinion.
It's like if you take Thrawn and instead of making his final fight the greatest and most important fleet battle in the history of the New Republic, you make him fight someone with fisticuffs over a volcano. Even if it's all dramatic and he wins, that kind of ending is completely against his character and what he represents. Alternatively, you could say that it's like Mass Effect 3, which was the end of a series that was all about choice but the ending was nothing more than picking your favourite colour.
If you want a duel against Sidious to mean something as far as Ciaran goes, have Anakin fight him. Such a momentous change in character, saving the Republic, the Jedi, and Anakin himself with the right words at the right time to the right person, that would make all the difference in the world. Thus is the dark future of Darth Vader averted and thus has the Chosen One at last vanquished the Sith, all because of Ciaran being Ciaran.
If you don't like that scenario, that's fine, I'm not a great writer, but we should win the game as Ciaran would, not as a Jedi would.
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Akasha
The Only Truth
- Location
- 「̛̛́́ ͏̨҉̕͏ ͏̶̴」
In my opinion, the most satisfying solution would be to have an epic climatic final battle, just like the QM proposes.
That'd force us to actually TRAIN our main character and PREPARE them, instead of shoving all of our actions into business or spying. It'd force our character to improve, instead of leaving her in the dust of all those shiny new traits and stat bonuses our OTHER hero units keep getting.
Also, it'd make all of those people obsessed with how EVIL and WRONG the Jedi Order is and how all of them should be BUTCHERED, cry. THAT is always a good thing.
That'd force us to actually TRAIN our main character and PREPARE them, instead of shoving all of our actions into business or spying. It'd force our character to improve, instead of leaving her in the dust of all those shiny new traits and stat bonuses our OTHER hero units keep getting.
Also, it'd make all of those people obsessed with how EVIL and WRONG the Jedi Order is and how all of them should be BUTCHERED, cry. THAT is always a good thing.
- Location
- Australia
But that's doing a complete 180 on her character. The entire game has been from the start about working from the shadows and managing an organisation. That's what Ciaran and Own the Galaxy/Invisible Hand have always been about. We should win the game we've been playing.
chrisleech
The Finder of Things Left Behind
- Location
- Jacksonville, Florida
While I agree that it would be an epic resolution for the players, I'm not so sure that it fits Ciaran. In my head I see the two of them, being intelligent manipulators, facing off not in a duel to the death, but rather a clash of tactics, strategy and intrigue. I essentially see them playing Xanatos Speed Chess. We work to remove all of his assets from him and back him into a corner while he does the same. Both of us reacting to each other's actions and adapting on the fly. I honestly wouldn't expect Ciaran to be in the same room with him until either he had chased her down, or she was poised to deliver the coup de grace.
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chrisleech
The Finder of Things Left Behind
- Location
- Jacksonville, Florida
Didn't we also train our Agents in Force concealment?
- Location
- Internet, The
In my opinion, Ciaran (with a little bit more training) is in the perfect position to kill Sidious personally, just not in a straight fight as they usually happen. My own post was, obviously, a bit over the top, but it does contain the idea of what I consider the most satisfying and in-character ending:
The primary plan should always be, for Ciaran to just be the organizer, the overwatch of the whole deal, but Ciaran has grown far to much for that to be her only role. She has consistently grown more personally powerful, while also successfully hiding her true strength. This needs to be applied at some point for it to satisfying, and a suprise attack against the ancient Sith lord who just thought he got away would, in my opinion, be the perfect place for a big reveal.
Of course, this should not take away from all the other powerful characters in any way. I still want the battle to be primarily between all the heavy hitters, perhaps Anakin having an epic duel before the endless drop of the flying city or whatever. I just think that an underestimated Ciaran sucker-punching Darth Sidious in the middle of his climatic duel against Skywalker/Windu/Yoda would both be hilarious, and fit the theme of this quest perfectly.
I don't care if this happens because Sidious "defeats" her and tries to use her as a hostage, or because she interrupts him just as he thinks he got away (and is too exhausted to fight at full strenght), or because she found out how to create light saber and sith lightning immune clothes and just walks into the battle while being completely immune to all his attacks or whatever. What is important is that she completely surprises everyone and somehow comes out as the one pivotal player that leads to the Sith's downfall, both on the political side, and during the final battle.
Essentially, I want Darth Sidious to be a powerful and intelligent enough enemy that most of our plans indeed do not work. He should be capable of surviving several layers of our eventual plan. Ciaran having any personal involvement should indeed not be Plan A, but I also expect Sidious to survive Plan A, whatever that is, as well as Plans B, C, D… until he whittled down enough that one of the plans kills him.
The primary plan should always be, for Ciaran to just be the organizer, the overwatch of the whole deal, but Ciaran has grown far to much for that to be her only role. She has consistently grown more personally powerful, while also successfully hiding her true strength. This needs to be applied at some point for it to satisfying, and a suprise attack against the ancient Sith lord who just thought he got away would, in my opinion, be the perfect place for a big reveal.
Of course, this should not take away from all the other powerful characters in any way. I still want the battle to be primarily between all the heavy hitters, perhaps Anakin having an epic duel before the endless drop of the flying city or whatever. I just think that an underestimated Ciaran sucker-punching Darth Sidious in the middle of his climatic duel against Skywalker/Windu/Yoda would both be hilarious, and fit the theme of this quest perfectly.
I don't care if this happens because Sidious "defeats" her and tries to use her as a hostage, or because she interrupts him just as he thinks he got away (and is too exhausted to fight at full strenght), or because she found out how to create light saber and sith lightning immune clothes and just walks into the battle while being completely immune to all his attacks or whatever. What is important is that she completely surprises everyone and somehow comes out as the one pivotal player that leads to the Sith's downfall, both on the political side, and during the final battle.
Essentially, I want Darth Sidious to be a powerful and intelligent enough enemy that most of our plans indeed do not work. He should be capable of surviving several layers of our eventual plan. Ciaran having any personal involvement should indeed not be Plan A, but I also expect Sidious to survive Plan A, whatever that is, as well as Plans B, C, D… until he whittled down enough that one of the plans kills him.
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Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
- Location
- Right where I want to be
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
In that case I would point out that Ciaran has a history of personally going into the field when the situation calls for it (Raiding Black Sun storehouses way back when, Operations Skyfall and Snake Eater), and in that circumstance she would undoubtedly take to the field to make damn sure that Palpatine is very very dead.
It's also worth saying that I don't expect you to have Ciaran charge headfirst into a fight or something but I feel that given her growth and what she has become she simply has to play a bigger role than just hiding away until the smoke blows over.
I...don't think so. They might think that Ciaren is connected to the Sith...but they can't think she's the master herself. She's simply too young. By this point it should be clear that both Dooku and Maul were only apprentices and Maul at least had to have years of training plus whatever else it took to get the resources that the Jedi know or suspect the Sith have. Some of that stuff especially probably took longer than Ciaren has been alive. Hell, except for founding a third side in the war, what Sithly traits have we shown? More likely they might think we are a crime-lord on the side from what our mercenary company, wealth, and political connections show. There is no reason to suspect us of being a phantom recognized Darth. I'm not even sure how powerful they think we are in the force. Concealing and muting presence was one of the first things we did and we've grown quite a bit since.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
On that we are in agreement. It's just that for Ciaran planning to confront Sidious personally I'd expect her to use one of the Force nullification tricks, and to use weapons a Force user with no access to the Force is helpless against (trivial stuff: grenades, blaster). Only if that also fails and retreat, regroup and orbiatl bombardment are not feasible would I expect her to go for a lightsaber duel.
- Location
- Internet, The
Yeah, a lightsaber duel is not something I would want either. That would just not be Ciaran's style. Her most powerful weapons are her wit, comedic timing and that she's about an order of magnitude more powerful than people expect, so that is how she should contribute. Well, either that or using one of her more exotic abilities to help in a way that no one else can.
As another example, Sidious could see that he is out-played and demonstrate that he has learned the complete buried presence trick on the level of that race that can turn invisible. No one knows where to find him and even Yoda fails to pinpoint his position. Cue Ciaran using her strong familiarity with the technique and her superior force-sight to find him. She then uses shatterpoint to break the technique and the others can fight him again. Bonus points for the losing Palpatine then trying to take Ciaran down with him as a last fuck you, only to fail because Ciaran is also a competent fighter.
tl;dr: Ciaran can and should meaningfully and personally contribute to the final fight. She should avoid actually directly fighting Sidious as much as possible, though.
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EFW3
This is Walter Wireless signing off!
- Location
- Charleston
Ya know you raise an interesting point, we should get rid of Tyber Zann and prevent the Consortium from rising. At the very least we should look into recruiting Urai Fenn.
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ConfusedPotato
Unverified Verifier
- Location
- Australia
The way I see it is that both Ciaran and Sidious are both playing an elegant, deadly and dangerous game that is a fusion of chess and go. In chess the king rarely takes a piece and in a similar way both players in this game rarely see the field of battle. The primary game right now is more of a go style game with both players attempting to acquire territory(pieces) (assets for Ciaran, and executive powers for Sidious).
As the game progresses I think that it will start to transition to a more chess like state where the players start to take potshots at each other setting traps and moving pieces but NOT fighting themselves. As one player starts to make gains and move to a chess endgame style both 'kings' will take to the battlefield more and more, the loser because they have no other choice and the winner because the battles will get more and more critical, similar to how the losing player gets placed into check more and more often and the winning player having to contend with their opponents increasingly desperate and risky strategies.
The only time the 'kings' will ever see each other in person is when checkmate is declared and one player has decisively won with the other player out of pieces and with nowhere to run and only to personally deliver the coup de grace. So when Sidious and Ciaran see each other the battle will already be won and the other player is only there to 'win' as a formality.
The final fight will still be suitably epic as the loser will be in a 'The Last Dance' type state but even if they manage to kill the other king it will only be a pyrrhic victory, as just like placing the opponent in check the move after checkmate, the game is over, they will die, as no matter what happens afterwards, the loser will forever remain the loser.
As the game progresses I think that it will start to transition to a more chess like state where the players start to take potshots at each other setting traps and moving pieces but NOT fighting themselves. As one player starts to make gains and move to a chess endgame style both 'kings' will take to the battlefield more and more, the loser because they have no other choice and the winner because the battles will get more and more critical, similar to how the losing player gets placed into check more and more often and the winning player having to contend with their opponents increasingly desperate and risky strategies.
The only time the 'kings' will ever see each other in person is when checkmate is declared and one player has decisively won with the other player out of pieces and with nowhere to run and only to personally deliver the coup de grace. So when Sidious and Ciaran see each other the battle will already be won and the other player is only there to 'win' as a formality.
The final fight will still be suitably epic as the loser will be in a 'The Last Dance' type state but even if they manage to kill the other king it will only be a pyrrhic victory, as just like placing the opponent in check the move after checkmate, the game is over, they will die, as no matter what happens afterwards, the loser will forever remain the loser.
- Location
- Asia
Well Dooku is old as fuck, probably even older the Palpatine. Any way age shouldn't matter that much. The Jedi are aware of the Rule of Two. So the master's plan will be continued by the apprentice, which is the entire point of Rule of Two.
- Location
- Asia
I see no reason why we shouldn't have a kickass Boss fight. Yes Ciaran has been an intrigue focused character in the beginning but it would be wrong to pigeonhole her as just that. Ciaran has constantly adapted to new situations and has grown into a much more rounded character.
She has become one of the best steward an organisation could hope for. She is known far and wide for her skill in diplomacy. Ciaran has had to work hard to be a extremely capable duellist. She is a powerful force user thanks to her extensive studies.
In my opinion an ending where Ciaran just stays behind and lets others do the fighting would be disappointing. Sidious is the Big Cheese of this galaxy; having him die a cheap death would go against the whole point of having a supervillain. We need to roll back our sleeves and get dirty for the final ending, otherwise it would be a "Just as planned" wankery. What's the point of having such a hyper competent Sith as our enemy if we are able to outsmart him just like that ?
In my opinion there needs to be a final battle, a darth vs darth, spymaster vs spymaster. A winner takes all battle, where the stakes are owning the galaxy or death and ruination.
She has become one of the best steward an organisation could hope for. She is known far and wide for her skill in diplomacy. Ciaran has had to work hard to be a extremely capable duellist. She is a powerful force user thanks to her extensive studies.
In my opinion an ending where Ciaran just stays behind and lets others do the fighting would be disappointing. Sidious is the Big Cheese of this galaxy; having him die a cheap death would go against the whole point of having a supervillain. We need to roll back our sleeves and get dirty for the final ending, otherwise it would be a "Just as planned" wankery. What's the point of having such a hyper competent Sith as our enemy if we are able to outsmart him just like that ?
In my opinion there needs to be a final battle, a darth vs darth, spymaster vs spymaster. A winner takes all battle, where the stakes are owning the galaxy or death and ruination.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Filthy casual who doesn't want to grind, get out of this thread; Power of Sufficient Velocity compels you.
I don't see the problem.
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Panory
The Omake Dragon
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If it was Blazing Chains omake, it was probably me. I think that specific one was Chain of Command.
I think