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Marvel's The Punisher: Netflix

Alex

Alex

Location
Canada
New trailer
So I am cautiously optimistic about this. Frank was probably the best part of DD season 2 in my opinion. And Karen seems to be in this as well which is good since I liked their dynamic in DD. Still... Punisher tends to draw a very divided audience in comics. With those enjoying him as a broken anti-hero and those who glorify and glamorize his worst aspects. So I am interested to see where this one goes.
 
I fall into neither of those categories. The Punisher crosses too many lines for me to like him as a hero. Though I must admit, I liked the Netflix version in DD. In fact, this was the first incarnation of the character I liked. So I'll watch this series.
 
BunBun299 said:
I fall into neither of those categories. The Punisher crosses too many lines for me to like him as a hero. Though I must admit, I liked the Netflix version in DD. In fact, this was the first incarnation of the character I liked. So I'll watch this series.
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I guess I should have specified that out of the people who like the Punisher I think there are two categories. Forking depending on how much they approve of his methods and his character.
 
Looks like we will get worst of both worlds where we see punisher as a "Timothy McVeigh did nothing wrong!" Figure.
 
Punisher worked in Daredevil because he was clearly in the wrong in his methods even if his motives were sympathetic, and because we had a more restrained example of vigilantism in Daredevil himself. Punisher's best moments in that show were when he was being set loose on people far worse than him, because you got the sense that he was what they deserved. That he was a broken, jagged shard of a man with the point aimed at anyone he thought was responsible for the deaths of his family. He was a lesson and a warning for Daredevil: that if he kept doing the hero thing, sooner or later he could expect to end up like Castle.

I'm not sure if you can really translate that into a show where he's the central character and we're supposed to cheer for him. If the show was about other more sympathetic characters following in Frank's trail of blood, with Punisher himself being less of a character than a force of destruction, I could see that working.
 
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Jace911 said:
Punisher worked in Daredevil because he was clearly in the wrong in his methods even if his motives were sympathetic, and because we had a more restrained example of vigilantism in Daredevil himself. Punisher's best moments in that show were when he was being set loose on people far worse than him, because you got the sense that he was what they deserved. That he was a broken, jagged shard of a man with the point aimed at anyone he thought was responsible for the deaths of his family. He was a lesson and a warning for Daredevil: that if he kept doing the hero thing, sooner or later he could expect to end up like Castle.

I'm not sure if you can really translate that into a show where he's the central character and we're supposed to cheer for him. If the show was about other more sympathetic characters following in Frank's trail of blood, with Punisher himself being less of a character than a force of destruction, I could see that working.
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You could say the same about the character in the comics and yet he's had like a dozen well regarded solo series over the years. So I guess there are ways to make him work, I've really only read a little of his Max line which was alright.* as well as the "Welcome Back Frank" story arc (the one the movie with Travolta as villian was based off). I liked the movie more.

*I liked the idea of initial Punisher Max arc quite a bit. The CIA tried to recruit him to hunt bin Laden right after 9-11 and he winds up going after his would be CIA handlers instead when he discovers they're selling drugs to finance the op. It offends his tender sensibilities, you see. :rofl:

Edit: Sorry, got side tracked what I was saying is people can make the character work but I haven't really seen how beyond standard "Taken" type action movie plot material.
 
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My favorite scene in all of the Marvel TV series is the scene in the diner when the Punisher is giving out relationship advice to Karen. I can only hope that this new show will be half Frank Castle shooting criminals and half him helping people with their love lives.
 
I'm kinda dubious, it looks more like 'Rambo vs Crooks' than what I'd expect from Punisher. On the other hand, it IS kinda like Garth Ennis' take on the character, which I did like reading.
 
Because, generally, the better Punisher stories have him dealing with scary villains and unusual plots.

Not 'Frank goes in and shoots crap'.
 
I think there's about one way this show can work, and that is with Castle not being someone to cheer for. I kinda think it'd probably work best if it's half Frank's doomed crusade, half following the FBI agent or cop or whoever trying to bring him in. I could see it working for a season, but...I dunno. Frank Castle as a character is basically murder porn, unless you're using him as a counterpoint to a different character or object lesson in why what he's doing is so fucked up.
 
Kaiya said:
I think there's about one way this show can work, and that is with Castle not being someone to cheer for. I kinda think it'd probably work best if it's half Frank's doomed crusade, half following the FBI agent or cop or whoever trying to bring him in. I could see it working for a season, but...I dunno. Frank Castle as a character is basically murder porn, unless you're using him as a counterpoint to a different character or object lesson in why what he's doing is so fucked up.
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Castle really only "works" for me as a tragic character--not in the "MY WIFE IS DEEAAAD" manner but in that you can sense the entire time that his crusade is gonna end up killing him, and might not even fix what he's trying to stop.

Basically I want to watch Logan again is what I'm saying. :V
 
Jace911 said:
Castle really only "works" for me as a tragic character--not in the "MY WIFE IS DEEAAAD" manner but in that you can sense the entire time that his crusade is gonna end up killing him, and might not even fix what he's trying to stop.

Basically I want to watch Logan again is what I'm saying. :V
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I adore narratives where a character's goals are their doom, and their only salvation is to give up everything that's come to define them. I would like that from Punisher, but it'd require it to be a one season wonder for that...and I suspect that won't happen :(
 
Jace911 said:
Punisher worked in Daredevil because he was clearly in the wrong in his methods even if his motives were sympathetic, and because we had a more restrained example of vigilantism in Daredevil himself. Punisher's best moments in that show were when he was being set loose on people far worse than him, because you got the sense that he was what they deserved. That he was a broken, jagged shard of a man with the point aimed at anyone he thought was responsible for the deaths of his family. He was a lesson and a warning for Daredevil: that if he kept doing the hero thing, sooner or later he could expect to end up like Castle.

I'm not sure if you can really translate that into a show where he's the central character and we're supposed to cheer for him. If the show was about other more sympathetic characters following in Frank's trail of blood, with Punisher himself being less of a character than a force of destruction, I could see that working.
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It would be fun if it was a lot more of the "Horrible person fights more horrible villains in interesting ways" style that some of the more entertaining punisher arcs used.

Murcuelago, trash., Dexter... It makes for a fun story.

Shanejayell said:
Because, generally, the better Punisher stories have him dealing with scary villains and unusual plots.

Not 'Frank goes in and shoots crap'.
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"Horrible person fights more horrible villains in interesting ways" arcs are the best.
 
Jace911 said:
Castle really only "works" for me as a tragic character--not in the "MY WIFE IS DEEAAAD" manner but in that you can sense the entire time that his crusade is gonna end up killing him, and might not even fix what he's trying to stop.

Basically I want to watch Logan again is what I'm saying. :V
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Y'all need more Byronic heroes in your life
 
Why no comments since this was out days ago?

I didn't start until last night because Desert Bus is taking most of my 'free time'. I'm only up to ep 4.
I'm finding it a bit slow and kinda boring at times. Also it seems really quiet? Like it went from a conversation between two people with no background sound, via a very brief musical cue to another scene of two people talking with no background sound.

Iron Fist had its problems but I didn't find myself wanting scenes to just hurry up and get on with something.

Oh and there was a fight scene that kept cutting between closeup shots and further back shots and it was really jarring.
 
Not finished it yet, but feels like yet another Netflix show with six episodes of content standing on top of each other in a trenchcoat pretending to be a 13-episode season.

Also, going with a generic conspiracy thriller plot is possibly the least interesting way to utilize Punisher. Feels like a rehash of his origin story, which I felt was adequately resolved in Daredevil.

I feel like this might actually be one Netflix show that would have done better with more of an episodic "monster organized crime of the week" shtick and less serialized stuff.
 
I actually liked it more than most of the other Marvel series though I admit that I am probably a bit too generous in viewing it as something of a tragic tale of a man unable to escape form his past rather than the standard action/conspiracy plot that it actually is (especially since the ending definitely goes towards the later). Though it certainly is fairly predictable and often seems violent simply for violence sake and has a fairly weak ending in my opinion.
 
stormbringer951 said:
Not finished it yet, but feels like yet another Netflix show with six episodes of content standing on top of each other in a trenchcoat pretending to be a 13-episode season.

Also, going with a generic conspiracy thriller plot is possibly the least interesting way to utilize Punisher. Feels like a rehash of his origin story, which I felt was adequately resolved in Daredevil.

I feel like this might actually be one Netflix show that would have done better with more of an episodic "monster organized crime of the week" shtick and less serialized stuff.
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Yeah I'm 7 eps in and it feels like each episode contains half an episode of content and far too much talking. And a side plot that I guess will eventually intersect with the main plot but for now it's just tiresome and I just don't care about it at all.
All the other Marvel Netflix shows have made me want to start the next episode as soon as possible, while this one makes me wish it would just move along or be over already.
Plus so far the only connection between this and the MCU so far is "a couple of the characters have talked to Daredevil". This feels like a less bipolar knockoff of Homeland.
 
Hotdog Vendor said:
Yeah I'm 7 eps in and it feels like each episode contains half an episode of content and far too much talking. And a side plot that I guess will eventually intersect with the main plot but for now it's just tiresome and I just don't care about it at all.
All the other Marvel Netflix shows have made me want to start the next episode as soon as possible, while this one makes me wish it would just move along or be over already.
Plus so far the only connection between this and the MCU so far is "a couple of the characters have talked to Daredevil". This feels like a less bipolar knockoff of Homeland.
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Don't forget scenes shot in pitch black lighting.

I'd say that it's worst parts aren't as bad as the worst parts of the other shows (Iron Fist excluded and I haven't watched The Defenders) but nothing after ep1 has been particularly great.
 
Mutton said:
Don't forget scenes shot in pitch black lighting.

I'd say that it's worst parts aren't as bad as the worst parts of the other shows (Iron Fist excluded and I haven't watched The Defenders) but nothing after ep1 has been particularly great.
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Eh, I'm kinda used to shows to lots of stuff shot in the dark. Actually it's kinda amazing how much is shot in broad daylight.
Yeah there's nothing egregiously bad yet (I am the Immortal Iron Fist!) but it nothing's blown me away as excellent or great either.
[edit] Ep 8 got a bit more interesting.
[edit] Okay it was only really 3-7 that were a bit slow. Though I have't seen the finale yet, just finished 12 and am catching my breath.
 
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