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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Kiba said:
if Iron is where all the missing nins go, it's also where all the missing-nin hunters go.

Even if we make it to Iron, there's no telling what kind of resources and efforts people will send to find us especially given that we violated the DMZ.
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The first one was true during our first visit, and we managed fairly well. It's been long enough since Liberator that things should've settled down.

The second one is troublesome, true, and that's why I hope the 'Rice' misdirection will hold for a bit, but it's a problem we'll have no matter where we go, bc it's on us, and not our destination.
 
Muer'ci said:
The second one is troublesome, true, and that's why I hope the 'Rice' misdirection will hold for a bit, but it's a problem we'll have no matter where we go, bc it's on us, and not our destination.
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It may be on us, but there is a limit to their resources and capabilities. Even ninjas are constrained by geography. Do you think that they would chase us all the way to the land of vegetable?

Going to the Land of Vegetable would make the QMs unhappy. It would take us out as players in the elemental nation, but we would resolve the question of survival against hunter-nins.

Nonetheless, there is something appealing about venturing outside the elemental nation and building up our power base elsewhere, while letting the EN burn.

We would still do adventure, but there won't be horde of hunter-nins keeping us up at night.
 
Kiba said:
It may be on us, but there is a limit to their resources and capabilities. Even ninjas are constrained by geography. Do you think that they would chase us all the way to the land of vegetable?

Going to the Land of Vegetable would make the QMs unhappy. It would take us out as players in the elemental nation, but we would resolve the question of survival against hunter-nins.

Nonetheless, there is something appealing about venturing outside the elemental nation and building up our power base elsewhere, while letting the EN burn.

We would still do adventure, but there won't be horde of hunter-nins keeping us up at night.
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Don't forget that we too are constrained by geography.

The problem with going to Vegetable isn't that QMs will be unhappy with it. We already had adventures in Tea that weren't particularly EN related, and they were fun in their own right. As long as we don't go on a long-term undercover mission to infiltrate some peasant community both we and QMs should be able to have fun.

The problem with going to Vegetable is, if we try it in our current state we will die. Just look at that map. Are you terrified? I am terrified.

Iron was picked bc it's the least scary place that's actually close enough to reach, not bc it's perfect. For all we know Vegetable might be where we go next. Might be nice to go someplace far from our screw-ups.
 
Just putting in a vote for Sea over Vegetable. There's still hidden villages on the continent that Vegetable is on. Not to mention getting to Sea forces us to got through Fire, Tea, and some minor islands, rather than a slew of nations.
 
You know, if we do create a Village Hidden in the Sea, we could totally become a ninja naval power(with submarines)!

I want to see BEYOND the elemental nations.
 
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Can we limit our immediate plans to feasible ones, please? I don't care if we eventually want to go to Sea or Vegetables or whatever, but I do want the hivemind to realize that these plans are not fUCKING REALISTIC RIGHT NOW
 
faflec said:
Can we limit our immediate plans to feasible ones, please? I don't care if we eventually want to go to Sea or Vegetables or whatever, but I do want the hivemind to realize that these plans are not fUCKING REALISTIC RIGHT NOW
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If we have to flee Iron, where would we go then?

(If we survive the crossing to Iron but still have hunter-nins on our tail, or hunter-nins are in the vicinity looking for us)
 
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faflec said:
Can we limit our immediate plans to feasible ones, please? I don't care if we eventually want to go to Sea or Vegetables or whatever, but I do want the hivemind to realize that these plans are not fUCKING REALISTIC RIGHT NOW
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Well duh, we need to hole up in Iron for a while. We need the mednin trained up, some research done, and general healing to happen.

Past that though, what makes any of this unrealistic? We've done the trip from Iron to Tea before, international travel isn't beyond our capabilities. We should still try to avoid/exploit the war.

It's not like it's an unproductive discussion either. We've pretty well and settled on a plan for the upcoming update, and frankly there's not that much dissent. We don't have time to train but we have a pile of training plans that capture the major choices we have to make, and not quite enough information to make an informed choice between them.

If there's a better, more relevant thing to discuss then tell us and I'll likely be happy to switch over. In the meantime, figuring out how to deal with the war we've just exacerbated seems like as good a discussion point as any, and better than most.
 
Muer'ci said:
Don't forget that we too are constrained by geography.

The problem with going to Vegetable isn't that QMs will be unhappy with it. We already had adventures in Tea that weren't particularly EN related, and they were fun in their own right. As long as we don't go on a long-term undercover mission to infiltrate some peasant community both we and QMs should be able to have fun.

The problem with going to Vegetable is, if we try it in our current state we will die. Just look at that map. Are you terrified? I am terrified.

Iron was picked bc it's the least scary place that's actually close enough to reach, not bc it's perfect. For all we know Vegetable might be where we go next. Might be nice to go someplace far from our screw-ups.
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Also Uzu. Uzuuuuu. Uzu. :D
 
Oh, that close?

We should definitely see if we can't check it out. I'd rather try to build a power base somewhere else, isolated, with civilians and few ninja for us to contend with. But given how close that is we should spend some time exploring and trying to find remnants.

It'd definitely make a good place to hole up for a few months as we do research, training, and pangolin diplomacy.

Also, I'd very much like to get technique hacking 10 on Hazou ASAP. Even if we don't use it much, the ability to train it on our own and teach it is invaluable. Everyone on the team should probably have 3-4 points of TH, so that with assistance bonuses they can optimize their own favorite ninjutsu.
 
Jello_Raptor said:
Oh, that close?

We should definitely see if we can't check it out. I'd rather try to build a power base somewhere else, isolated, with civilians and few ninja for us to contend with. But given how close that is we should spend some time exploring and trying to find remnants.

It'd definitely make a good place to hole up for a few months as we do research, training, and pangolin diplomacy.

Also, I'd very much like to get technique hacking 10 on Hazou ASAP. Even if we don't use it much, the ability to train it on our own and teach it is invaluable. Everyone on the team should probably have 3-4 points of TH, so that with assistance bonuses they can optimize their own favorite ninjutsu.
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I have the sneaking suspicion that TH will end up working kind of like MechApt does with regards to traps -- that is, having points in the ninjutsu you're modifying will also give a (partial?) bonus to your rolls for modifying it so that people without the benefit of a high Intelligence by other measures are still somewhat-able to modify techniques, though Hazou will be the best at it.
 
Cariyaga said:
I have the sneaking suspicion that TH will end up working kind of like MechApt does with regards to traps -- that is, having points in the ninjutsu you're modifying will also give a (partial?) bonus to your rolls for modifying it so that people without the benefit of a high Intelligence by other measures are still somewhat-able to modify techniques, though Hazou will be the best at it.
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Right, we already know TH only works for people who also know the base techniques, but I suspect that a more skill technique hacker will be able to provide a bonus to a user of a technique by helping with the theory and analysis.

I would love to be able to recreate some of the higher level Vampiric Dew powers because of the battlefield control they give when coupled with a mist macerator. Not to mention things we could do to help optimize Hotaru no Jutsu or Thermostat no Jutsu.

More generally I'm a big fan of making sure at least one person on our team has at least 10 points in core munchkinry skills like Medicine, Template Hacking, and to a lesser extent Sealing. Along with everyone else getting token (<5 pts) levels in all of those skills. That way the group expert can work with the novices to allow them to punch above their weight when self optimizing.
 
@Jello_Raptor
Jello_Raptor said:
Informative stuff about fleeing and Monads
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Thanks, that makes sense! I'm not very familiar with Haskell syntax, but it seems like your Flee monad is a bit different from how I'd learned about Monads, here and on Wikipedia.

They describe them more as Type enhancers/wrappers, but here there's no wrapped base type at all! I guess a Monad the way they've describe it reduces to essentially a JavaScript closure that you bind functions to when the wrapped type is void?
 
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Jello_Raptor said:
Right, we already know TH only works for people who also know the base techniques, but I suspect that a more skill technique hacker will be able to provide a bonus to a user of a technique by helping with the theory and analysis.

I would love to be able to recreate some of the higher level Vampiric Dew powers because of the battlefield control they give when coupled with a mist macerator. Not to mention things we could do to help optimize Hotaru no Jutsu or Thermostat no Jutsu.

More generally I'm a big fan of making sure at least one person on our team has at least 10 points in core munchkinry skills like Medicine, Template Hacking, and to a lesser extent Sealing. Along with everyone else getting token (<5 pts) levels in all of those skills. That way the group expert can work with the novices to allow them to punch above their weight when self optimizing.
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Oh, that reminds me, we could go with the "barrel full of water with a white-hot piece of metal inside it sealed inside a PMYF scroll" method of mist generation for combat use. In fact, we really really should. That would be a good way for Nobby to practice with mist, too.
 
Cariyaga said:
Oh, that reminds me, we could go with the "barrel full of water with a white-hot piece of metal inside it sealed inside a PMYF scroll" method of mist generation for combat use. In fact, we really really should. That would be a good way for Nobby to practice with mist, too.
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So we want a PMSG(Poor Man Smoke Grenade), along with ASG(Actual Smoke Grenade)?
 
ting said:
@Jello_Raptor


Thanks, that makes sense! I'm not very familiar with Haskell syntax, but it seems like your Flee monad is just working more or less like a closure would in JavaScript (and I can definitely see how that would be useful here).. that's a bit different from how I'd learned about Monads, here and on Wikipedia.

They describe them more as Type enhancers/wrappers, but here there's no wrapped base type at all! I guess a Monad the way they've describe it reduces to essentially a JavaScript closure when the wrapped type is void?
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Yup, but the beauty of it is you can have arbitrary wrapped types. In our case, let's say we have a tactical plan to determine whether we should go to Uzu, Sea, or Vegetable. We could create a type `data ReturnLoc = Uzu | Sea | Vegetable` and our tactical plan (of type `TacticalPlan ReturnLoc`) could return the particular location we decided was best to the strategic plan, which can then use that information as part of the choices it's capable of making.

Not to mention, unlike a closure, you have much more control over what can happen within a monad by controlling the primitive functions and constructors that the user has access to.

Mind, having a monad that can only enclose a void type is a perfectly useful pattern on its own. In fact you should take a look at the Shake haskell build system for how it uses monads in the way I'm suggesting. The API docs for the same are cool reading too.

It's worth taking the example they provide and looking at the types of all the statements and how they interact to provide both a declarative outer monad (for holding build system rules that all exist independently) and an imperative inner monad (for the series of actions that make up a single rule within the build system).

Cariyaga said:
Oh, that reminds me, we could go with the "barrel full of water with a white-hot piece of metal inside it sealed inside a PMYF scroll" method of mist generation for combat use. In fact, we really really should. That would be a good way for Nobby to practice with mist, too.
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I would like to point out that that would be more steam than mist. Incredibly painful to those who come in contact with it before it cools off, and more than enough to inflict third degree burns.

Admittedly, that has its own uses but "safe training aid" isn't one of them.
 
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