Hidan smells blood. Someone's blood does not belong. Are mind control parasites clonal? Blood from one would track all of them. His eyes tracked to Asuma, meaning he could be looking in front or behind Asuma. The Tower has a leak. Did Hidan sniff out the mole?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's possible that Asuma unknowingly interacted with the culprit and their scent is on him. We don't know the extent of Hidan's tracking powers - the Kotsuzui can only sniff out blood itself but he may have Jashin abilities that let him detect responsibility/causality of death too
How on Earth could she have been "tricked" into teaching a Top Secret jutsu, one that needed the Hokage's permission to teach. Without like, being a traitor? I get what you're saying here but the risk of her teaching someone she shouldn't without malice was zero.
Her snapping and EMing Leaf? I think the chance was low overall, but I admit I was concerned.
Agreed: nobody's shedding any tears for that rock genin. From a moral perspective, Asuma has arguably more justification to kill Akane (enlisted soldier in his army, spending her life to make leaf more secure is at least arguably something she's consented to). The reason we feel differently IMO is more because of the emotional closeness we readers have to Akane vs the rock genin than any moral difference.
My guess is that Shika/Asuma (rightly?) wouldn't trust that Akane's deceit would hold up well enough to keep EM a secret indefinitely. Especially in this scenario where she also would need to sell a more complex cover-up involving a fake career-ending injury. And as for actually crippling her: finding a scenario and disposable assets that could cripple her without killing her while still leaving her genin team alive all without leaving a ton more open threads for Hazou and Akatsuki to chase seems like it would be REALLY risky to try to execute.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I think that if you are known to be the type of person that punishes defection, and then you do not punish defection, then you lose the benefits of being known to be the type of person that punishes defection. Sometimes you have to eat the costs of that.
We have made it known that we punish (what we view as) defection (see: Hagoromo). Hopefully, Shikamaru, as the one who distributed the information on decision theory, will remain aware of this fact and it won't prove necessary.
I do, separately, agree that in the universe with Shikamaru is guilty, he was probably correct to do so, according to his information (which is probably more information than we have! He likely had access to the results of Akane's interrogation). Nonetheless, I think that if this becomes public, it will prove necessary to do something of extreme severity to Shikamaru personally. Not necessarily his clan, but -- something to the tune of "okay, then you will rescind clanheadship and join Gouketsu. We will not ever ask after Nara clan secrets, but you will be otherwise under our absolute authority to do with what we will, moreso than any other member of the clan."
Why are we letting murdering traitors join our family as punishment? How does that make sense?
Joining the Goketsu should not be used as a punishment for murderous traitors. That's wild.
Instead, cut his head off and mount it somewhere prominent. That'll work just fine.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Call it something else, then. I just think we could make better use of him than dead. Maybe just make him go get the squirrel scroll.
The word you want is "slave"
The reputational effects are that so bad that it's pointless. Sure we have a expendable body to throw at stuff, but we have done something bizarre. When the whole point of punishing defectors is the reputation you get for punishing defectors, you gotta stick with the classics.
To be fair, its standard MFD protocol to interrogate any and all secrets out of captured jounin, and Mind Walkers like the Yamanaka exist. Heck, it'd not even have to be an enemy, imagine Orochimaru got his hands on Akane for vivisection, and learned EM through that. Its less about being tricked and more about being captured and then the secret leaking out due to that, but hell, she was a jounin and getting strong quick so that wasn't a realistic concern to have. I really think her XP was very mis-spent though and she could have survived if she'd munchkined more.
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- a
Then we would have gone full circle as a thread
I remember those days where the thread goes "Let's finally burn these bigoted rival clan to the ground" before it went to "Asuma/Shika sus 101"
Am i the only one hoping that even if asuma did order akanes death, Hidan doesnt murder him? We have a LOT of political capital and goodwill with Asuma. He gives us a tremendous amount of leeway on our more idiotic decisions and generally supports us. He is fully aware of the absurdity that is our worth long term. The dynamic is good. Any of the viable replacements for Hokage are going to be a downgrade for us. Also there is a very non zero chance that a portion of the village blames us for Asuma's death either directly or indirectly, and without Asuma being around to shield us we are more then likely going to have major problems. Just my thoughts.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We need to start a contest for "most helpful and considerate comment of the week." You would have that on lock.
Your thoughts are noted, given the due consideration of someone with your track record of understanding the mechanics. Then weighted appropriately.
At least I know how Stress interacts with Consequences, unlike a certain someone xp. My track of understanding the mechanics is only flawed as it is because I actually try and juggle them, unlike 99% of people reading the story and the majority of the voters, for whom its arcane magic. And the longform arguments of the kind that I tend to write about it would typically start as a discord discussion over dozens of posts where any glaring oversights would be easily caught but I'm not on discord, so when I post the entire thing in one go it sometimes contains fundamental mistakes from which others spring up. Which may or may not invalidate the entire point at times, sure. But its quite rich to feel like you have a righteous cause to disregard everything that I'm saying based on an occasional mechanical slip up.
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- Location
- Texas
I don't think people are disregarding what you say because you are occasionally wrong. We're all wrong at times. It's just that people don't want to engage with you regarding this argument again. You've stated this before, that Akane's XP was misspent on the then-new fire jutsu. Nothing has changed since then, all you are doing is continuing to insult the playerbase with these little digs. Is it any surprise that you're getting this sort of response?
Rule 3: Be Civil - Don’t threaten to ignore someone. If you are going to use the ignore feature, let its use speak for itself. + Attack arguments, not people. Don’t post personal attacks or insults.
It's not occasional, it's constant. But the problem is your attitude about it. You regularly contradict the QMs themselves about basic mechanics and then don't back off when multiple people tell you exactly what your mistake is.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but there's an OOM of difference between missing something about stress tracks (EJ made the exact same mistake on those rolls), and just off the top of my head (I'm sure there are more)
1. Not understanding that you can chakra boost ninjutsu
2. Not realizing that we can use SC with SSA
At that point I assume you don't even bother reading the rolls.
You seem to make these mechanical slipups when you are arguing with people just to prove your point. I genuinely can't tell if you're arguing in bad faith or intentionally trolling.
Regardless I'm putting you on mute for my own sanity, so don't expect another response.
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
Nah, he needs to die. Good dynamics or not. To violate that hard is insane. Death is the only recourse.
That's like, anti rational and the kind of thinking that leads to us rerolling a new character and uplift dying in its tracks. We're talking about our Godking Hokage here. There are perfectly rational reasons for him to possibly order akane's death, and he has the authority to do it. We, as a character, are pathetically weak in combat and won't survive basically any enemy deciding we need to die because we put all of our experience into research, which is a luxury we can only afford because we are relatively safe and sheltered in leaf. Our clan as a whole has some pathetic combat stats. Mari is our best and she just isn't strong enough to keep Hazo alive if a serious enough threat (power wise or numbers wise) decides he needs to die. Making more enemies and removing the most powerful and influential character that's On Our Side is something you have to put serious thought behind, not just decide based on emotional.
Also keep in mind that we are still foreign ninja that joined, and we already plotted to overthrow one hokage and Naruto is fully aware of this. We absolutely can not have any part in Asuma dying. Period.
- Location
- United States
I'd argue that title belongs more to Hidan than to Asuma.
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- Italy
I appreciate caution, but let's not discard our capabilities, we're amongs the "strong" clans of Leaf after all the hits the Village received, Mari is possibly the strongest non S-rank/Kage ninja in the village and we have a ridiculous amount of Summons Scrolls and three bloodlines. In a direct conflict, i would probably bet on the Goketsu vs the majority of Leaf Clans.
Even Hazou is not "pathetically weak", we're a decent Chuunin with a glaring Alert/Ath weakness but multiple buffs, high tier ninjutsu, Shadow Clone and a Summon Scroll, and a improvement curve that improves drammatically with every seal researched.(Hazou with Force Claws is a completely different beast from Hazou without Force Claws, for example).
Every peer opponents is probably dead, the problem is that we fight Jounins.
In the event that leaf decides Hazo is either directly or indirectly implicit in the death of their hokage, what kind of combatants do you imagine Hazo facing? We already have a very public link with Hidan that everyone in leaf is acutely aware of and suspicious of. Our clan is also extremely small. In a clan vs clan situation, there is very little chance that Goketsu come out on top versus virtually any of the other clans, let alone a combination. And again, Naruto is very aware that we plotted to overthrow a Kage already. Naruto himself could solo our entire clan. My point is that if Hidan at all gives us any input on a hypothetical decision over whether Asuma lives or dies (something i think is likely to happen due to the nature of the quest), we should back Asuma.I appreciate caution, but let's not discard our capabilities, we're amongs the "strong" clans of Leaf after all the hits the Village received, Mari is possibly the strongest non S-rank/Kage ninja in the village and we have a ridiculous amount of Summons Scrolls and three bloodlines. In a direct conflict, i would probably bet on the Goketsu vs the majority of Leaf Clans.
Even Hazou is not "pathetically weak", we're a decent Chuunin with a glaring Alert/Ath weakness but multiple buffs, high tier ninjutsu, Shadow Clone and a Summon Scroll, and a improvement curve that improves drammatically with every seal researched.(Hazou with Force Claws is a completely different beast from Hazou without Force Claws, for example).
Every peer opponents is probably dead, the problem is that we fight Jounins.
- Location
- Italy
We could probably defeat the majority of Clans thank to the Summon Army + Koi Pond if we have preparation, but yes, we shouldn't be idiots. Also if Hidan gives us input, that means we have Hidan on our side, so "how strong is the clan" becomes less important.
But no, we shouldn't declare open war on Leaf, but not backing Asuma, depending on how we do it, is not declaring open war on Leaf, for example we could convince other clans that an Hokage abusing the office of Hokage to murder fellow Leaf ninja, loyal Leaf ninja, is bad and shouldn't be done, from there to Asuma losing his head, the step is short. After all, no one wants an Hokage willing to disappear his subjects without explanation.
EDIT: Mari could probably single handily win us the war against a good amount of Clans.