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So this part of the Goo Bomb deal strikes me as kinda weird. I know that the primary motive for the deal is the Yamanaka genin who would benefit from it, but I'm not really sure why we would specifically insist that Yamanaka chuunin aren't allowed to use them. (Especially since, well, Ino is a Yamanaka chuunin herself). Given demographic rates it's unlikely that supplying Chuunin would substantially increase the workload, and removing this would make the deal feel smoother to me.

Does anyone object to me taking this out? I'll revisit the topic later today and only make the change if it looks relatively uncontroversial. If you do think that we should restrict the deal to genin use only, please speak up and tell me why you think we should do that.
 
So this part of the Goo Bomb deal strikes me as kinda weird. I know that the primary motive for the deal is the Yamanaka genin who would benefit from it, but I'm not really sure why we would specifically insist that Yamanaka chuunin aren't allowed to use them. (Especially since, well, Ino is a Yamanaka chuunin herself). Given demographic rates it's unlikely that supplying Chuunin would substantially increase the workload, and removing this would make the deal feel smoother to me.

Does anyone object to me taking this out? I'll revisit the topic later today and only make the change if it looks relatively uncontroversial. If you do think that we should restrict the deal to genin use only, please speak up and tell me why you think we should do that.
I make no objections and think this is the correct decision.
 
Does anyone object to me taking this out?
I acknowledge a minor amount ofnpersonal objection, but I am ultimately okay if you end up taking it out.

Then original intent was that it allowed us some control over how they were used (I blame the Shikaku-trauma), the request was something Ino already wanted (and thus likely to agree to), and would ultimately serve as an ice-breaking business agreement between Hazou-the-clan-head and Ino-the-clan-head that could serve as the foundation for larger, more drastic, trade deals.

However, whatever my personal thoughts, the fact remains that several members of the hivemind have called that part into question. The hivemind, as a collective group, is pretty smart (disregarding the occasional Youthsuit-fueled insanity that I, myself, have also fallen into), so I'm willing to suspend my objections (which are, admittedly, pretty minor) and trust the collective sanity of the wider hivemind.
 
We backed out of the Squirrel Scroll hunt IIRC because we started feeling like our current strategy wasn't up to the task. To my understanding, we don't have a new strategy.
I agree with these concerns. I do think the plan is to have Ino or another Yamanaka along to help?
But I think we have better leads on the otter and rat scrolls, and would rather chase those first.

So this part of the Goo Bomb deal strikes me as kinda weird. I know that the primary motive for the deal is the Yamanaka genin who would benefit from it, but I'm not really sure why we would specifically insist that Yamanaka chuunin aren't allowed to use them. (Especially since, well, Ino is a Yamanaka chuunin herself). Given demographic rates it's unlikely that supplying Chuunin would substantially increase the workload, and removing this would make the deal feel smoother to me.
Ino proposed this bit, not us. Presumably to make it easier to persuade Asuma to let us sell directly, rather than going through the tower.
 
I don't think that understanding Yuno's internal logic is going to be tremendously useful, although I do note that my plan does ask about some pretty key areas - specifically, how she's loving and kind and caring while also suggesting that we commit mass murder in a tone and manner which would be better suited to suggesting a restaurant. If we can sell her on the idea that everyone deserves life and dignity, we can leave her to Mari and Ami to put back together.
Whether it's useful or not, to be seen caring about her internal logic is the crux of the matter here.
 
Whether it's useful or not, to be seen caring about her internal logic is the crux of the matter here.
Certainly - and that's why the focus of the second part is 'help me reconcile you being someone who cares about people with your casual endorsement of mass murder'.

I don't think that sitting and listening to her explain her beliefs is going to be productive. Maybe there will be important insights? But I'd rather leave that to Mari, who I trust to keep her mouth shut when Yuno says something absolutely insane, compared to Hazo, who will fixate on that one point. We can show her that we care and respect her in other ways that we're less likely to totally fuck up.

I don't think that Yuno really knows what she believes in. I think she has a lot of little beliefs that don't integrate into a whole. Supporting her through that process of figuring things out for herself, instead of blindly adopting Uplift or Jashinism or whatever else because it seems to make sense and someone she respects suggests it is what I'd like to do, and I trust that we'll be happy with the end result.
 
So this part of the Goo Bomb deal strikes me as kinda weird. I know that the primary motive for the deal is the Yamanaka genin who would benefit from it, but I'm not really sure why we would specifically insist that Yamanaka chuunin aren't allowed to use them. (Especially since, well, Ino is a Yamanaka chuunin herself). Given demographic rates it's unlikely that supplying Chuunin would substantially increase the workload, and removing this would make the deal feel smoother to me.

Does anyone object to me taking this out? I'll revisit the topic later today and only make the change if it looks relatively uncontroversial. If you do think that we should restrict the deal to genin use only, please speak up and tell me why you think we should do that.
Well, it looks like there's a lot of support for the change, and what appears to be not much disagreement? I figure that's a good case for removing it, so the plan has been updated to reflect that:
Wordcount: 293
[X] Action Plan: Fiery Irons
  • Meet with Mari, Kei, Snowflake, Noburi under full OPSEC procedures
    • When necromancy comes to a head we may need to fight one or more of the Akatsuki, which means we need as much power as possible.
      • Mari, you're by far our strongest. What matchups do you think you could win?
        • What seals would help your combat style?
      • Noburi, you have the chakra to summon S-Rank Toads; all that stands in your way is the lack of a contract.
        • If you needed a one-time contract with Gamabunta within the next few months, what would you need from us?
          • If we explain our plans, the Toads may be sympathetic to the idea of resurrecting Jiraiya.
        • Alternatively, Toad jutsu could give Mari an extra edge.
        • If all else fails, we want to help you secure more summons in general.
      • We're going to need everyone in top form, and with our busy jobs in Leaf it can be easy for our battle instincts to dull.
        • We should go rid the world of some deadly horror sometime soon. Any suggestions?
  • Ino
    • Initial Proposal (sanity checked by Mari)
      • Supply...
        • Come to an agreement about a reasonable allotment of Goo Bombs, given our time constraints.
        • Goketsu Hazou will provide a backstock on the Goketsu Estate so that, should he be unavailable, the Yamanaka Clan aren't inconvenienced.
      • Duration
        • One Year, delivered monthly
      • Payment options
        • Her help in future Scroll hunts, with the caveat Goketsu retains ownership of the Scroll
        • Help keeping Hazou's time free for Dragonwar research
        • Whatever Mari thinks would be most beneficial to her personally
  • Sealing
    • Protocol: Hazou-pilot's best judgement
    • Shadow Clone: Finish Minato Seal 7, then Minato Seal 8
    • Prime: Rocket Boots
    • Non-SSA SC researches Earth Pillar seal
    • Ask junior sealmasters to assess and identify Sarubetsu/Isan seals

This is a fork of Oneiros' plan, with changes that I suggested here that were never added to the plan. I wasn't given a reason for why they weren't added, but I can personally attest that I much prefer the plan with those changes and so I've no choice but to fork it.

Let me know if there's anything else you think I should change. The differences between my plan and Oneiros' mainly center around the initial meeting about power sources, with the Ino and Sealing sections copied faithfully, as I don't have my thumb enough on the pulse of those topics to propose my own spin on them. If those sections could be improved in any way, just let me know.
 
[X] Action Plan: Fiery Irons
I'm not sure if we need to state it, but Hazō will have SSA consequences this coming day so he'll have to wait on the sealing.
I was assuming we'd have the meetings (shudder) on the second rest day, and then do some Sealing after that.
We're going to need everyone in top form, and with our busy jobs in Leaf it can be easy for our battle instincts to dull.
  • We should go rid the world of some deadly horror sometime soon. Any suggestions?
I take it this supposed to be to remove combat stagnancy? Can we suggest taking missions on the Seventh Path? Look at what happened to Akane.
Duration
  • One Year, delivered monthly
Can you add "with the option be renewed at the end of the year" or something like that?
 
I take it this supposed to be to remove combat stagnancy? Can we suggest taking missions on the Seventh Path? Look at what happened to Akane.
I think it's relatively safe for us to go on missions. What we need to do is travel on skywalkers and camp on skytowers, and not route our mission selection through Tower bureaucracy. This fully shuts down any way anyone would have to track us, unless they're Hidan and just always know where you are at all times. (And even then, Hidan's busy)

And the thing about Seventh Path combat is, well, it's almost certainly going to be against other sapient beings. Hazou helping out in Dog likely means fighting Hyenas, and we know Kei will soon be forced to do the same. I don't know who the Toads get into scraps with but it's almost certainly another Clan. Personally, I'm not really torn up at the idea of Hazou fighting and killing a Hyena who's trying to raid Dog, but killing chakra beasts actively helps the people of Fire so I think Hazou and the rest of Team Uplift would prefer a chakra beast mission over a Seventh Path mission. Sage knows Kei's gonna have enough Hyena blood on her hands soon enough.

(Oh, and also, it's a lot less sus on the Jashinism question if we want to go kill non-sapients that definitely do not count, in contrast to suddenly chomping at the bit to go kill sapient beings like members of the summon clans)

Mostly though, it's just a plot hook opener. If the QMs have a cool combat sidequest to toss our way, we're set. If not, we'll probably just get vague assent from Kei and Noburi and then we'd get initiative tossed back to us and we'd get to add more detail based on what they said.
Can you add "with the option be renewed at the end of the year" or something like that?
I'm not sure that this would be very useful to have, because the things we're asking for can't be easily renewed like that. It'd turn into "renegotiate after a year" as we decide on a new price anyways, so there's no real value in trying to automate it here.
 
[X] Action Plan: Fiery Irons
What seals would help your combat style?
I think we might want to give this line a bit more flesh, so it's given proper narrative focus/so the QMs know what we're looking for? Encourage her to be bold with her suggestions since this is something we're willing to spend non-trivial time researching, note that the goal is her attaining a proper S-rank status so we probably want either survivability or some synergy that allows her to instawin most fights, etc.
 
I think it's relatively safe for us to go on missions. What we need to do is travel on skywalkers and camp on skytowers, and not route our mission selection through Tower bureaucracy. This fully shuts down any way anyone would have to track us, unless they're Hidan and just always know where you are at all times. (And even then, Hidan's busy)

And the thing about Seventh Path combat is, well, it's almost certainly going to be against other sapient beings. Hazou helping out in Dog likely means fighting Hyenas, and we know Kei will soon be forced to do the same. I don't know who the Toads get into scraps with but it's almost certainly another Clan. Personally, I'm not really torn up at the idea of Hazou fighting and killing a Hyena who's trying to raid Dog, but killing chakra beasts actively helps the people of Fire so I think Hazou and the rest of Team Uplift would prefer a chakra beast mission over a Seventh Path mission. Sage knows Kei's gonna have enough Hyena blood on her hands soon enough.

(Oh, and also, it's a lot less sus on the Jashinism question if we want to go kill non-sapients that definitely do not count, in contrast to suddenly chomping at the bit to go kill sapient beings like members of the summon clans)

Mostly though, it's just a plot hook opener. If the QMs have a cool combat sidequest to toss our way, we're set. If not, we'll probably just get vague assent from Kei and Noburi and then we'd get initiative tossed back to us and we'd get to add more detail based on what they said.

I'm not sure that this would be very useful to have, because the things we're asking for can't be easily renewed like that. It'd turn into "renegotiate after a year" as we decide on a new price anyways, so there's no real value in trying to automate it here.
How do you feel about exploring the Swamp of Death again? We know there's some fucking strong (jonin-tier) beasts in there, killing them makes the surrounding area marginally safer, and we have some plot reason for wanting to explore (looking for more PS material.) Plus, you know, narrative echo of being there again and all

only hangup is I think this borders Rock territory now after the war? Idk how all the geography works out
 
How do you feel about exploring the Swamp of Death again? We know there's some fucking strong (jonin-tier) beasts in there, killing them makes the surrounding area marginally safer, and we have some plot reason for wanting to explore (looking for more PS material.) Plus, you know, narrative echo of being there again and all

only hangup is I think this borders Rock territory now after the war? Idk how all the geography works out
It's in Rock territory IIRC. They nabbed it after the Collapse and kept it despite the war.
 
do u have the relevant quotes? I'm honestly not sure what they'd want it for :V
"That's the land on the border with Grass, right?" the Inuzuka regent asked.

Asuma nodded. "Yeah. Twenty-mile wide strip that goes along the entire Grass border, from the top of Rain to the bottom of Hot Springs. Most of it is good land, but the Swamp of Death eats up a meaningful chunk of it. Earth Country is mostly desert; Rock has been eyeing our land for farming ever since the villages were founded. We probably could push them out if we wanted to make the effort, but we'd need to have Tsunade and Naruto take the field." He paused to offer a respectful nod to the jinchūriki, who also sat against the wall. "The Collapse took too many of our senior ninja. Furthermore, our intelligence records were all housed at the Tower, with backups for the less sensitive bits stored at the Academy. With both of those locations gone, our spy networks are shredded."
NB: Leaf never got this land back.
 
I think we might want to give this line a bit more flesh, so it's given proper narrative focus/so the QMs know what we're looking for? Encourage her to be bold with her suggestions since this is something we're willing to spend non-trivial time researching, note that the goal is her attaining a proper S-rank status so we probably want either survivability or some synergy that allows her to instawin most fights, etc.
I'm not averse to the idea, but I'm not entirely sure what to put there. Especially given the context that we're already flush with projects to complete with similar necromantic relevancy (it's fortunate that we have two SSA slots because otherwise we wouldn't be able to even think about starting projects like these until we either finish or completely stall out on necro-seals).

Maybe something like "Encourage a wide range of ideas, from safe projects to pipe dreams"? Do you think that would communicate the right intent?
NB: Leaf never got this land back.
*blinks*
From the top of Rain to the bottom of Hot Springs?
 
👍
Wordcount: 299
[X] Action Plan: Fiery Irons
  • Meet with Mari, Kei, Snowflake, Noburi under full OPSEC procedures
    • When necromancy comes to a head we may need to fight one or more of the Akatsuki, which means we need as much power as possible.
      • Mari, you're by far our strongest. What matchups do you think you could win?
        • What seals would help your combat style?
          • Encourage a wide range of ideas, from safe projects to pipe dreams.
      • Noburi, you have the chakra to summon S-Rank Toads; all that stands in your way is the lack of a contract.
        • If you needed a one-time contract with Gamabunta within the next few months, what would you need from us?
          • If we explain our plans, the Toads may be sympathetic to the idea of resurrecting Jiraiya.
        • Alternatively, Toad jutsu could give Mari an extra edge.
        • If all else fails, we want to help you secure more summons in general.
      • We're going to need everyone in top form, and with our busy jobs in Leaf it can be easy for our battle instincts to dull.
        • We should go rid the world of some deadly horror sometime soon. Any suggestions?
  • Ino
    • Initial Proposal (sanity checked by Mari)
      • Supply...
        • Come to an agreement about a reasonable allotment of Goo Bombs, given our time constraints.
        • Goketsu Hazou will provide a backstock on the Goketsu Estate in case he is unavailable.
      • Duration
        • One Year, delivered monthly
      • Payment options
        • Her help in future Scroll hunts, with the caveat Goketsu retains ownership of the Scroll
        • Help keeping Hazou's time free for Dragonwar research
        • Whatever Mari thinks would be most beneficial to her personally
  • Sealing
    • Protocol: Hazou-pilot's best judgement
    • Shadow Clone: Finish Minato Seal 7, then Minato Seal 8
    • Prime: Rocket Boots
    • Non-SSA SC researches Earth Pillar seal
    • Ask junior sealmasters to assess and identify Sarubetsu/Isan seals

This is a fork of Oneiros' plan, with changes that I suggested here that were never added to the plan. I wasn't given a reason for why they weren't added, but I can personally attest that I much prefer the plan with those changes and so I've no choice but to fork it.

Let me know if there's anything else you think I should change. The differences between my plan and Oneiros' mainly center around the initial meeting about power sources, with the Ino and Sealing sections copied faithfully, as I don't have my thumb enough on the pulse of those topics to propose my own spin on them. If those sections could be improved in any way, just let me know.
Had to streamline a line in the Ino section to make it fit, but fit it does.
 
Whatever Mari thinks would be most beneficial to her personally
Something interesting I considered regarding this the other day is that they may be able to help with Mari's genjutsu practice. I'm not sure how else Yamanaka could practice their techniques in secret except testing on each other (or death row T&I captives when there's any available.) They probably have fat resolve scores, bonuses to resolve, and maybe (though I'm skeptical) even stuff like Tulpas/Amnesia to store away or cleanse psychic damage if they know it's coming. It would probably be more ethical to test genjutsu on the Yamanaka than on people whose minds would just get melted by Mari trying her strongest attacks
 
Something interesting I considered regarding this the other day is that they may be able to help with Mari's genjutsu practice. I'm not sure how else Yamanaka could practice their techniques in secret except testing on each other (or death row T&I captives when there's any available.) They probably have fat resolve scores, bonuses to resolve, and maybe (though I'm skeptical) even stuff like Tulpas/Amnesia to store away or cleanse psychic damage if they know it's coming. It would probably be more ethical to test genjutsu on the Yamanaka than on people whose minds would just get melted by Mari trying her strongest attacks
It's possible Mari already solved the issues with SC TLitF.

SC1 casts TLitF on SC2
Prime casts the genjutsu on SC2
Success/fail, yadda yadda.
SC1 triggers TLitF and SC2 forgets the genjutsu.
Rinse and repeat however long the SCs last.

Granted, this doesn't work if TLitF generates mental consequences that carry over to prime. Still have no idea on the mechanics, but logically speaking, the loss of memory shouldn't carry over prime.
 
It's possible Mari already solved the issues with SC TLitF.

SC1 casts TLitF on SC2
Prime casts the genjutsu on SC2
Success/fail, yadda yadda.
SC1 triggers TLitF and SC2 forgets the genjutsu.
Rinse and repeat however long the SCs last.

Granted, this doesn't work if TLitF generates mental consequences that carry over to prime. Still have no idea on the mechanics, but logically speaking, the loss of memory shouldn't carry over prime.
I'd be concerned about SC1 popping and having Prime pay the price but it seems possible that that wouldn't happen. SC is a pathway to many abilities some consider unnatural

EDIT: Can you be in 2 genjutsus at once? Though I suppose SC1 can always just cast TLitF immediately after the test genjutsu ends, since TLitF wipes a little before it's own casting as well.
 
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@Briefvoice called it: any plausible number of misterators is not going to block line of sight. If you can somehow trigger 10,000 of them in the same round, we'll talk. Otherwise, nope.
Can MARS activate Misterators? Also, while I'm at it where are the specs for misterators? There's no mention of them in the seals doc.
 
If you can't, it would be easy to exploit it by having a teammate put you in a harmless genjutsu to avoid any harmful enemy ones.
I don't think this is as practical as you think it is tbh. It debuffs your teammate to have to maintain that on you, they'd need to stay within a certain distance of you and keep eye contact with you, etc.

But it would be greatly to our benefit for genjutsu to stack cuz the instant Mari lands a mind control genjutsu, the debuff from it would mean her SCs would land several more and pretty much instantly take out her opponent.
 
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