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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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acidshill said:
My pre-timeskip wishlist (not all of these are mandatory):
  • Make some progress cleaning up the fallout from Hidan's visit and fixing our reputations
  • Vote in an estate plan
  • Decide what we want to do in terms of Necromancy/A-day, or at least figure out a range of options we might pursue depending on what the future holds, then determine what prep work we need to do and get the ball rolling
  • Determine if any of our 3D sealing ideas (e.g. doping) will work or if we just need to grind ES
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Would you be willing to write this plan?

Someone (@Inferno Vulpix?) proposed that our first necromancy trip be a research expedition, to see if we can move the scar, or close it and reopen our own, among other questions. These seem abnormally good options for not having necromancy get completely out of hand and cause disasters. I'm leaning towards this approach.
 
acidshill said:
Didn't we at one point vote in a plan that had Hazou ask Asuma if he recognized any of the jargon in Minato's notes? Did anything come of that?
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eaglejarl said:
"I'm afraid it probably is," he said, the words dragged out of him. "Technique hacking, I mean. I spoke to Asuma this morning, showed him a couple pages of the notes. He recognized a lot of the terminology, although he couldn't make any sense out of it. He said lot of things like 'utterly deranged' and 'completely impossible'. There were even a couple of uses of 'now that would make a lovely explosion right in your face, before turning your brain to soup' or variations on that theme." He sighed. "Like you said, there's probably more decoding available in the Fourth's other writings
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KaGoGoGadgetMe said:
More directly than the dishonesty, this chapter really drove home for me how much we (as in both Hazou and the playerbase) infantilize, distrust and disrespect Yuno. We're not treating her like an equal in personhood, we are acting like we're trying to trick a not-especially-bright child.

We don't use this level of kid-gloves for Kagome, for Bear-summoner guy...
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Kagome is a good, deeply honest person with wisdom and insight that has earned our trust and more.

Yuno is a psychopath that Hazō continuously enables.
 
ProperAttorney said:
Accept Asuma's offer to arrange a TH tutor.
  • Ask Kagome if he is willing to join.
  • If so, pay for the additional tutorship.
  • Have a SC attend lessons.
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IMO now is not the time for this. We can do it after necromancy. When the necromancy seal finishes we need to be able to leave Leaf. This ties us there until we finish the Stunt.
ProperAttorney said:
  • Short SSA Research
    • Finish MS7
    • CATEARS
  • Hazō Prime and SCs max prep for SSA sealing research.
    • Minato Seal
    • Reusable Rocket Boots, boosted to break stagnancy
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Just have Hazou use his intuition on sealing research. That means no specifying max prep and whatnot. IMO we can finish MS7 w/o SSA. But Hazou would have feelings about it and know better than I.

CATEARS will probably take as long as DE (21 days). I would prefer not to tie up that SSA slot for that length of time.

My suggestion is instead to research RBs. And then RRBs. The reduction in complexity from finishing RBs should be enough to either significantly shorten the time it takes to get RRBs or to get us a significantly improved version of the seal. Hazou should have a good idea of whether he needs prep to finish RBs now.

My proposed sealing research text is:

  • Hazō Prime and SC on sealing research. Use Hazou's intuition to determine prep
    • SC - Finish MS7 and start MS8
    • Prime - Rocket Boots
    • Synchronize SSA rolls
    • If SSA is not required to finish MS7, Prime preps for RB
    • End update when FP are exhausted.


EDIT: Got some WoG about this from Paper
Paper on Discord said:
Probably [Rocket Boots are] about as much easier as is possible [after finishing DE]. The calling component is hard, but with veterancy, it's maybe doable without prep with a little bit of risk. He's so close on #7 that he thinks he could finish it without SSA assuming the dice don't screw him, but it would similarly be a little risky.
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Velorien said:
PSA: Jashinism poll is up

There has been some distinct disagreement on the Discord over Hazō's true feelings about Jashin. Please share your opinion in this non-binding poll: Does Hazō worship Jashin? - Online Poll - StrawPoll.com.
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Has anyone argued that Hazou actually wants to serve Jashin's will for the sake of it?

it seems to me the disagreement is more over whether Hazou is:

A: Serving Jashin as an ally of convenience/for pragmatism, with no vested interest in Jashin himself beyond what Jashin can do for him.

B: Not serving Jashin whatsoever and just making everything he said up to fool Hidan/Yuno.
 
Velorien said:
PSA: Jashinism poll is up

There has been some distinct disagreement on the Discord over Hazō's true feelings about Jashin. Please share your opinion in this non-binding poll: Does Hazō worship Jashin? - Online Poll - StrawPoll.com.
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I mean, the two options are quite extreme and essentially amount to "Hazou cares about and worships Jashin above everything in the world" vs "Hazou does not care about Jashin in any way whatsoever and just tries to squeeze the godly entity for advantages"
 
IMO, Hazou is just doing what he was always going to do (cool Uplift shit, helping people). Jashin decided to throw rewards at Hazou anyway, hitching his cart onto ours. Cool. But Hazou isn't motivated by Jashin.

So if Jashin tries to get Hazou to change/stop doing the things that he was always going to do, anyway (Uplift), or if Jashin's free rewards start to get in the way of Hazou doing the things that he was always going to do, anyway, then Hazou will chop Jashin's connectors off of his cart.

----

Hazou: does thing
Jashin: "What a mad lad."
Hazou: continues to do thing
Jashin: "Nice, kid. Here's some free stuff."

Hazou: does thing
Jashin: "What if you stopped doing the thing? Or did it in a different way?"
Hazou: "Bye, Jashin."

Hazou: does thing
Jashin: rewards
People: "Jashin means we're going to be less likely to help you do thing."
Hazou: "Bye, Jashin."

Hazou is an artist, and Jashin is a Patreon subscriber
 
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KaGoGoGadgetMe said:
More directly than the dishonesty, this chapter really drove home for me how much we (as in both Hazou and the playerbase) infantilize, distrust and disrespect Yuno. We're not treating her like an equal in personhood, we are acting like we're trying to trick a not-especially-bright child.

We don't use this level of kid-gloves for Kagome, for Bear-summoner guy...
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Yes, well, Yuno is psychopathically murderous by ninja standards and has basically shown no signs of improving, and if she didn't represent a significant amount of the clan's combat force we'd be better off sacrificing her to Jashin
 
Shrooms said:
Serving Jashin as an ally of convenience
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I don't even think it's that. Hazou has been doing what he has always done, Jashin just kinda rolled up one day and started throwing rewards at him.

Hazou would continue to do Uplift stuff, regardless of Jashin. If Jashin's rewards hampered Uplift, Hazou would stop Jashin from rewarding him.
 
RandomOTP said:
I don't even think it's that. Hazou has been doing what he has always done, Jashin just kinda rolled up one day and started throwing rewards at him.

Hazou would continue to do Uplift stuff, regardless of Jashin. If Jashin's rewards hampered Uplift, Hazou would stop Jashin from rewarding him.
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Then you would probably vote for B, which is my point about how this is where players disagree.
 
Since we have a short voting window and should talk to Kagome more anyways, I figure it would be good to use a modified version of @Shrooms' original plan for that conversation.

NOTE TO QMs: The first bullet point might need to be a scene, but it doesn't have to be. I'd prefer to avoid a meeting about meetings, but Mari+Kei+Snowflake+Noburi should be briefed in some capacity. Up to you.

[X] Action Plan: Exploring Viability
Wordcount: 330 words

  • Meet with Mari, Kei, Snowflake, Noburi (Offscreen?)
    • Relay both our conversations with Yuno about Jashinism
    • Heads up, she'll probably try to convert you
    • We'd appreciate your advice and help with making sure she doesn't cause any incidents or massacres
  • Discuss with Kagome
    • We'll try to get you Shadow Clone
    • Can Akatsuki open rift without Naruto's chakra or Minato's notes? How quickly could they figure it out?
    • Your opinion on viability of...
      • Permanently killing Pain to prevent his resurrection?
      • Permanently disabling Pain's eyes?
      • Moving the rift somewhere more convenient/defensible/secret?
        • Enter rift, collect data to target Pure Lands, permanently close rift, open another later?
      • Creating second rift back and exiting somewhere else, to avoid Akatsuki ambush?
      • Building an impenetrable 5SB airtight foil box around rift, fortified with defenses like Fire Absorder seals, and getting aid from 7th Path when we exit, to defeat Akatsuki ambush?
    • Do we need additional diagnostic seals to determine:
      • How to ward against chakra drain in the Pure Lands?
      • Whether summoning/reverse-summoning is possible/safe?
      • If it's possible to move the rift to a different location?
      • If it's possible to permanently close the rift and open a new portal to the Pure Lands elsewhere?
    • How do we find people in the Pure Lands?
      • Do you know any tracking seals that might be helpful? (either directly or for veterancy)
      • Can we track people from a blood sample?
      • What should we research?
  • Attempt 3D sealing
    • Use one material (diamond?) to form chakra pathways inside another (corundum?), like putting ink on paper
      • Consider infusing without withdrawing chakra from ink-analogue (Use SC)
    • If Hazou pushes chakra into regular granite, does the chakra radiate outwards in all directions?
      • Use smoothened, densified, purified stone (SDPS), surrounded/insulated by regular granite. Chakra flows through SDPS and is blocked/channeled by granite
        • Begin infusion from point such that the chakra must flow in a single direction
  • Ask Noburi to look into Tenketsu opening (Offscreen?)
  • Publicly denounce Jashinism (Offscreen?)
    • Optimize with Mari/Kei
 
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Hazou is an artist who does his own thing (Uplift). He was doing it before Jashin rolled up, and he'll be doing it after Jashin is gone.

If Jashin decides to fund his art (Uplift), then cool. But Jashin doesn't get to make requests or make demands (change Uplift).

Jashin can sit quietly and enjoy Hazou's art, or he can go away.

Hazou is a pig headed artist.

Jashin is an overly supportive Patreon Whale.

Hidan is a YouTube commenter, annoyed at Jashin giving away so much free money to Hazou, and is trying to guilt Hazou into changing his art for what Hidan thinks Jashin would like
 
acidshill said:
Attempt 3D sealing
  • Use one material (diamond?) to form chakra pathways inside another (corundum?), like putting ink on paper
    • Consider infusing without withdrawing chakra from ink-analogue
      • Use a clone
  • Form high-density pathways within the same material, also like ink on paper
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If anyone has any other ideas for things we can try to get 3D sealing without leveling ES, I'll add them.

acidshill said:
Sealing (Prime + 1 SC, use Hazou's intuition)
  • Jinchūriki Chain #7
  • Rocket Boots
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I'm not super attached to researching these seals in particular and am open to suggestions, although my hope is that the plan won't take too long.
 
acidshill said:
Hit me. I would love to put all the ideas anyone's got in this plan.
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Sir Stompy said:
What happens when Hazou pushes chakra into regular granite? Does it radiate outwards in all directions?

This only works if regular granite doesn't conduct chakra to an appreciable degree. But it seems to me that you could create directional pathways from a single infusion point. Let me explain.

Construct a three dimensional object composed of granite wrapped around and over smoothed, densified, purified, stone (SDPS). The SDPS forms channels in the stone that chakra can conduct through.

Since the chakra expands regularly in all directions the "seal" has a single point that the infusion must be begun from, but then since the chakra conducts out regularly from that point, the granite insulator confines the infusing chakra to the SDPS, so it can run uninterrupted through the channels. Which have a direction, they run from the infusing point out to the end of the SDPS

Does that make sense? What does Hazou think of the idea?
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acidshill said:
I'm not super attached to researching these seals in particular and am open to suggestions, although my hope is that the plan won't take too long
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I am super attached to those, please don't change them. 🙏
 
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Kiba said:
The conversation is fundamentally dishonest on Hazo's part.
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I agree. But I thought so when the plan itself was written.
Inferno Vulpix said:
We need to head off the Yuno thing by conferring with the rest of the clan about how this is what Yuno believes and what she thinks we believe. We need them to be prepared for when Yuno comes to convert them and talks about how Hazou had a private conversation with her about how much he supports Jashin and all that.
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Do we actually need to head off her conversation with Noburi? On the one hand he's her husband and they do actually love each other. On the other hand Noburi might be upset that we talked to his wife about Jashinism in a dishonesty approving way.
Velorien said:
PSA: Jashinism poll is up

There has been some distinct disagreement on the Discord over Hazō's true feelings about Jashin. Please share your opinion in this non-binding poll: Does Hazō worship Jashin? - Online Poll - StrawPoll.com.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Why is this so binary? Hazō can't possibly judge a supernatural entity based on one prophet's proclamations plus some fiddling with causality that he witnessed.

Imagine if instead of Jashin this was an S-Rank philosopher-ninja sending coded messages. We have neither managed to discern the meaning of the messages nor know how much of it is honest and how much manipulation.

Also, one doesn't put a god's wishes above one's own as a rationalist. One can trust that a god, having supernatural intellect (or just access to more knowledge) knows better about how to achieve one's own goals and just trust them at times even if one doesn't understand the god's reasons and actions, like one would a smarter and stronger and wiser friend, but one doesn't let friends or leaders overwrite one's own ultimate utility function. That's just always wrong.

In other words, I'm sorry to say this but I honestly think that the poll is a useless false dichotomy that doesn't help to narrow down anything that actually matters.

I choose the third option: [X] Hazō wants to cautiously but hopefully engage with Jashin in as much good faith as makes sense when negotiating with a foreign beyond S-Rank entity.

acidshill said:
[X] Action Plan: Exploring Viability
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Are we just ignoring the massive Jashinism/Yuno fallout? Let's please not do that.

[X] Interlude: Any
[X] Interlude: Jin
[X] Interlude: Goketsu Sealmasters
[X] Interlude: Hiruzen and Jiraya Teach the Hyūga Elders the Pink Pony no Jutsu
[X] Interlude: Legitimately Anything Wholesome. The Last Few Weeks' Updates Have Been Stressful AF
[X] Interlude: Hazou-Pilot and Ino Fairly Negotiate for Goo Bombs, in Good Faith, Like Reasonable Adults
[X] Interlude: Kakuzu and Kagome have a talk
 
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acidshill said:
Attempt 3D sealing
  • Use one material (diamond?) to form chakra pathways inside another (corundum?), like putting ink on paper
    • Consider infusing without withdrawing chakra from ink-analogue (Use SC)
  • If Hazou pushes chakra into regular granite, does the chakra radiate outwards in all directions?
    • Use smoothened, densified, purified stone (SDPS), surrounded/insulated by regular granite. Chakra flows through SDPS and is blocked/channeled by granite
      • Begin infusion from point such that the chakra must flow in a single direction
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@Sir Stompy @Twinnstars thoughts?
 
Rafin said:
Are we just ignoring the massive Jashinism/Yuno fallout? Let's please not do that.
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I think we can afford to wait one update / a day or two in-universe to address that. Also, voting closes in a little over 25 hours, which is not really enough time to come up with a good enough plan to handle a delicate social/political system with this one. Although you're welcome to try.
 
I seem to remember at some point having a conversation with Mari about what it would take to get SC for Kagome or Yuno. Does anyone know what I'm talking about and can they tell me what chapter it was in?
 
[X] Interlude: Legitimately Anything Wholesome. The Last Few Weeks' Updates Have Been Stressful AF

[X] Interlude: Hazou-Pilot and Ino Fairly Negotiate for Goo Bombs, in Good Faith, Like Reasonable Adults
 
Rafin said:
I choose the third option: [X] Hazō wants to cautiously but hopefully engage with Jashin in as much good faith as makes sense when negotiating with a foreign beyond S-Rank entity.
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The issue in the context of the plan/update is that people disagree how honest Hazō was with Yuno. A poll in which we get half a dozen simultaneously very exact and very vague options like this will not help us establish whether he believes in Jashin in any way that would be recognised as belief by someone like Yuno (or most of the rest of the world, which will have a lot of relevance when someone with Deceit 60 asks if he believes in Jashin).
 
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