Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Cariyaga · Jun 22, 2023

Oneiros said:
Honestly the seals we should be working on are whatever makes Mari more deadly

Unfortunately, it is rather difficult to come up with seals that improve genjutsu.

Crunbum · Jun 22, 2023

Cariyaga said:
Unfortunately, it is rather difficult to come up with seals that improve genjutsu.

Is it? Doesn't seem all that hard to make seals that lower Awareness and/or Resolve temporarily.

Shrooms · Jun 22, 2023

Cariyaga said:
Unfortunately, it is rather difficult to come up with seals that improve genjutsu.

Making her opponents weaker is pretty much analogous to making her stronger.

RandomOTP · Jun 22, 2023

Shrooms said:
Making her opponents weaker is pretty much analogous to making her stronger.

And since there's no cap on Debuffs... >:3

~~Example: Darkness Seal + Chakdar = Yes~~

Left-Hand Mutant · Jun 22, 2023

Things we know:

Infusing and using seals takes a negligible amount of chakra
Seals can have effects that imitate Jutsu
- A Jutsu-like seal, such as an explosive, tag takes almost no chakra, unlike a Fireball or Explosion Jutsu.
The limiting factor of the MARI jutsu is chakra cost.

This implies that Hazou could potentially learn MARI, then develop a seal version that he can mass-produce at negligible chakra cost.

Being able to have one shadow clone dedicated to making thousands of Mari seals each day would be a huge win for Uplift. We could hire Genin teams to deploy the roads all over fire. Then go on to connect neighboring nations to save lives there, and strengthen our alliances by making trade/commerce into an even better strategy!

---
I don't want to slow down necromancy to achieve this, but learning MARI and setting a shadow clone to investigate the possibility seems very worthwhile.
First we should ask Asuma and/or Kagome about adapting Jutsu into seals, to check our assumptions(what if it requires Technique Hacking or something?).

RandomOTP · Jun 22, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Things we know:

Infusing and using seals takes a negligible amount of chakra

Seals can have effects that imitate Jutsu

A Jutsu-like seal, such as an explosive, tag takes almost no chakra, unlike a Fireball or Explosion Jutsu.

The limiting factor of the MARI jutsu is chakra cost.

This implies that Hazou could potentially learn MARI, then develop a seal version that he can mass-produce at negligible chakra cost.

Being able to have one shadow clone dedicated to making thousands of Mari seals each day would be a huge win for Uplift. We could hire Genin teams to deploy the roads all over fire. Then go on to connect neighboring nations to save lives there, and strengthen our alliances by making trade/commerce into an even better strategy!

Yes and no.

Jutsu have been described as "smart chakra" and Seals have been described as "dumb chakra."

Since Sealing is blackboxed from the playerbase, we don't have a clear view of things, but the two arts are clearly different.

Hazou can, indeed, create a seal that creates an effect similar to MARI, yes. In fact, in our seal catelogue, Jiraiya left us two different type of "pillar seals" that create an effect similar to MEW (but "pillar," rather than "wall"). We could take those Pillar Seals, make a MEW version, and then work on turning that into a MARI version.

However, Hazou's time is supremely limited, and I would recommend outsourcing it to one of our more junior sealmasters as a "long-term project." I would also emphasize that they "take your time, abuse prep, gain veterancy as much as possible." I don't want to lose them in a sealing failure because they thought their clan head wanted it done by the end of the week.

Left-Hand Mutant · Jun 22, 2023

I don't want to pull Hazou's SSA time for this, unless it's the only way to get it done.
But there has been discussion of setting all of our shadow clones to seal research, and researching 7 seals at once. This would be a great way to leverage our Sealing skills, and finally build up a better seal library. If we do this, MARI-seals would be a good candidate for non-SSA research, at least to assess the difficulty/complexity.

I definitly agree that having a Junior Goketsu sealer work on it slowly and carefully is much better than nothing. We should do that if we decide it doesn't make sense for Hazou to do the work himself.

---
Useing Jiraiya's Piller seals and a starting point is brilliant, and I'd compleatly forgotten about those, thank you!

eaglejarl · Jun 22, 2023

Crunbum said:
@Paperclipped does Hazou know approximately how large an area the Fourfold Violet Flame Barrier can cover?

HDK. Most seals and jutsu affect tactically relevant areas rather than strategically relevant ones, for what it's worth.

Crunbum said:
Is it? Doesn't seem all that hard to make seals that lower Awareness and/or Resolve temporarily.

Shrooms said:
Making her opponents weaker is pretty much analogous to making her stronger.

RandomOTP said:
And since there's no cap on Debuffs... >:3

Please be aware that we're going to be very stringent about what counts as a debuff to satisfy the Doylist reasons behind the buff-stacking limit, namely, keeping combat complexity and related headaches managable for the QMs.

RandomOTP · Jun 22, 2023

Hey, I charted out some of Hazou's mid-term build plan.

I know we wanted to focus on raising Hazou's combat stats this time around, so this is what I've charted out.

Hazou Build Plan:

Resolve 62 -> 68 (more FOOM XP)
Calligraphy 40 -> 47 (eff 50)
Taijutsu 40 -> 47 (eff 50)
Bleeding River Impalement 1 -> 10 (halfcost)
Medknow 10 -> 20 (using Lootbox XP)
Pangolin Earth Armor 20 -> 30 (halfcost)
Alertness 33 -> 40
Calligraphy 47 -> 57 (eff 60)
ES 50 -> 60
Mednin 0 -> 10 (unlocks lootbox)
Mednin 10 -> 20 (lootbox XP)
Deceit 25 -> 30 (opsec)
Athletics 37 -> 47 (eff 50)
Taijutsu 47 -> 57 (eff 60)

60	Resolve
50	Sealing	Earthshaping
40	Taijutsu	Calligraphy	Shadow Clone
30	Alertness	Athletics	Chakra	Physique
20	Deceit	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	P.E. Armor
10	Stealth	Empathy	Medknow	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots

60	Resolve
50	Sealing	Earthshaping
40	Taijutsu	Calligraphy	Shadow Clone
30	Alertness	Athletics	Chakra	Physique
20	Deceit	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	P.E. Armor
10	Stealth	Empathy	Medknow	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots	B.R. Impale

60	Resolve
50	Sealing	Earthshaping
40	Taijutsu	Calligraphy	Shadow Clone
30	Alertness	Athletics	Chakra	Physique
20	Deceit	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	P.E. Armor	Medknow
10	Stealth	Empathy	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots	B.R. Impale

60	Resolve
50	Sealing	Earthshaping
40	Taijutsu	Calligraphy	Shadow Clone
30	Alertness	Athletics	Chakra	Physique	P.E. Armor
20	Deceit	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	Medknow
10	Stealth	Empathy	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots	B.R. Impale

60	Resolve
50	Sealing	Earthshaping
40	Taijutsu	Calligraphy	Shadow Clone	Alertness
30	Athletics	Chakra	Physique	P.E. Armor
20	Deceit	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	Medknow
10	Stealth	Empathy	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots	B.R. Impale

60	Resolve
50	Sealing	Earthshaping	Calligraphy
40	Taijutsu	Shadow Clone	Alertness
30	Athletics	Chakra	Physique	P.E. Armor
20	Deceit	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	Medknow
10	Stealth	Empathy	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots	B.R. Impale

60	Resolve	Earthshaping
50	Sealing	Calligraphy
40	Taijutsu	Shadow Clone	Alertness
30	Athletics	Chakra	Physique	P.E. Armor
20	Deceit	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	Medknow
10	Stealth	Empathy	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots	B.R. Impale

60	Resolve	Earthshaping
50	Sealing	Calligraphy
40	Taijutsu	Shadow Clone	Alertness
30	Athletics	Chakra	Physique	P.E. Armor
20	Deceit	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	Medknow
10	Stealth	Empathy	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots	B.R. Impale	Mednin

60	Resolve	Earthshaping
50	Sealing	Calligraphy
40	Taijutsu	Shadow Clone	Alertness
30	Athletics	Chakra	Physique	P.E. Armor
20	Deceit	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	Medknow	Mednin
10	Stealth	Empathy	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots	B.R. Impale

60	Resolve	Earthshaping
50	Sealing	Calligraphy
40	Taijutsu	Shadow Clone	Alertness
30	Athletics	Chakra	Physique	P.E. Armor	Deceit
20	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	Medknow	Mednin
10	Stealth	Empathy	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots	B.R. Impale

60	Resolve	Earthshaping
50	Sealing	Calligraphy
40	Taijutsu	Shadow Clone	Alertness	Athletics
30	Chakra	Physique	P.E. Armor	Deceit
20	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	Medknow	Mednin
10	Stealth	Empathy	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots	B.R. Impale

60	Resolve	Earthshaping
50	Sealing	Calligraphy	Taijutsu
40	Shadow Clone	Alertness	Athletics
30	Chakra	Physique	P.E. Armor	Deceit
20	Presence	Rapport	Substitution	Medknow	Mednin
10	Stealth	Empathy	Ghost Scales	P.K. Hammer	Living Roots	B.R. Impale

And then, since we need a new 10-stat anyway, this is where I say we pick up THing.

It's after we've raised our Calligraphy up to a comparable level to our Sealing Stat, and it's after we've raised our combat stats a sufficient amount.

RandomOTP · Jun 22, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
I don't want to pull Hazou's SSA time for this, unless it's the only way to get it done.
But there has been discussion of setting all of our shadow clones to seal research, and researching 7 seals at once. This would be a great way to leverage our Sealing skills, and finally build up a better seal library. If we do this, MARI-seals would be a good candidate for non-SSA research, at least to assess the difficulty/complexity.

I definitly agree that having a Junior Goketsu sealer work on it slowly and carefully is much better than nothing. We should do that if we decide it doesn't make sense for Hazou to do the work himself.

---
Useing Jiraiya's Piller seals and a starting point is brilliant, and I'd compleatly forgotten about those, thank you!

I... really don't want to sacrifice FOOM xp. I'm okay with multi-threading one SC or maybe even two, but Hazou needs the XP from FOOM. He's regularly going up against S-rankers. I'd rather gain the extra XP and outsource the MARI Seal (which furthers both goals of Hazou growing stronger and pushing Uplift forward).

As for the Pillar Seal Veterancy: You're welcome! ^.^

Left-Hand Mutant · Jun 22, 2023

RandomOTP said:
I... really don't want to sacrifice FOOM xp. I'm okay with multi-threading one SC or maybe even two, but Hazou needs the XP from FOOM. He's regularly going up against S-rankers. I'd rather gain the extra XP and outsource the MARI Seal (which furthers both goals of Hazou growing stronger and pushing Uplift forward).

As for the Pillar Seal Veterancy: You're welcome! ^.^

XP is one way to get stronger. Having badass seals is another.
Right now Hazou's best skills (besides ES) are Shadow Clones and Sealing, and we have a backlog of sealing ideas.
Temporarily pausing FOOM to make massive sealing progress lets us leverage our biggest advantages, and could get us more gains than spending that time on training xp.

I'm not saying that I *know* that mass sealing research is the stronger option, but it's another way to increase our power and prepare for fighting S-rankers.

RandomOTP · Jun 22, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
I'm not saying that I *know* that mass sealing research is the stronger option, but it's another way to increase our power and prepare for fighting S-rankers.

For me, it would depend on the Projects we'd be chasing. I'm okay with splitting one or two, but I would be very hesitant to multi-thread more than that.

Directional Explosives? Sure, we're mostly done, and we're working towards Reusable Rocket Boots anyway.
CATEARS? Sure, let's split a SC for that. It's already been determined to be chunnin difficulty anyway, and we have a ton of veterancy.

Jiraiya's Pillar Seals? Not top priority, throw that to a junior Sealmaster.
Longer Duration Daybrights? Not top priority, throw that to a junior Sealmaster.

Left-Hand Mutant · Jun 22, 2023

RandomOTP said:
Hey, I charted out some of Hazou's mid-term build plan.

I know we wanted to focus on raising Hazou's combat stats this time around, so this is what I've charted out.

Hazou Build Plan:

Resolve 62 -> 68 (more FOOM XP)

Calligraphy 40 -> 47 (eff 50)

Taijutsu 40 -> 47 (eff 50)

Bleeding River Impalement 1 -> 10 (halfcost)

Medknow 10 -> 20 (using Lootbox XP)

Pangolin Earth Armor 20 -> 30 (halfcost)

Alertness 33 -> 40

Calligraphy 47 -> 57 (eff 60)

ES 50 -> 60

Mednin 0 -> 10 (unlocks lootbox)

Mednin 10 -> 20 (lootbox XP)

Deceit 25 -> 30 (opsec)

Athletics 37 -> 47 (eff 50)

Taijutsu 47 -> 57 (eff 60)

And then, since we need a new 10-stat anyway, this is where I say we pick up THing.

It's after we've raised our Calligraphy up to a comparable level to our Sealing Stat, and it's after we've raised our combat stats a sufficient amount.

Why Mednin/know? is it mostly because we have lootboxes so they can be cheap pyramid-support, or do we have other plans?(also, how do lootboxes work mechanically?)

Why do we stop raiseing our IN skills at on 7s? does the IN bonus count for the skill pyramid?

Why TH? dosen't it require a stunt, thus making it abnormally expensive? Hazou has more sealing projects than he has time for already, so learning a new research skill seems odd. THing seems like a skill we would either try to max to rediscover Flying-Thunder-God, or ignore, not a pyramid-suppourt skill.
Wouldn't a half-costed Earth jutsu be better? It would let us spend more xp on Enhanceing our strengths and bolstering our weaknesses, rather than trying to add another niche specialty that relies on spending time we don't have.

I'd Like to see presence in here: Hazou is really speech-y, and convincing people of our worldview is really high-impact. It seems worth investing in. Maybe raise deceit right away instead of Earth Armour(similar xp cost, because Deceit is halfway to the next level), then raise Presence as step 12, where Deceit currently is?

ProperAttorney · Jun 22, 2023

RandomOTP said:
For me, it would depend on the Projects we'd be chasing. I'm okay with splitting one or two, but I would be very hesitant to multi-thread more than that.

Directional Explosives? Sure, we're mostly done, and we're working towards Reusable Rocket Boots anyway.
CATEARS? Sure, let's split a SC for that. It's already been determined to be chunnin difficulty anyway, and we have a ton of veterancy.

Jiraiya's Pillar Seals? Not top priority, throw that to a junior Sealmaster.
Longer Duration Daybrights? Not top priority, throw that to a junior Sealmaster.

I like to think with numbers, which makes comparisons like these a bit easier for me.

On a given 3 XP day (which is what we mainly get these days), we get 5.7 FOOM XP.

The tradeoff then becomes "Are you willing to pay 5.4 XP to do 6 additional research rolls?"

It's only safe to do ~mid chunin level seals and lower without SSA or prep at this point, so we would need to be careful what we pick to avoid having to spend FP rerolling.

I wouldn't make a habit of it, but it might be worth doing once or twice to knock out a bunch of useful genin/low chunin seals, even if only for the veterancy.

Shrooms · Jun 22, 2023

RandomOTP said:
Hey, I charted out some of Hazou's mid-term build plan.

I know we wanted to focus on raising Hazou's combat stats this time around, so this is what I've charted out.

Hazou Build Plan:

Resolve 62 -> 68 (more FOOM XP)

Calligraphy 40 -> 47 (eff 50)

Taijutsu 40 -> 47 (eff 50)

Bleeding River Impalement 1 -> 10 (halfcost)

Medknow 10 -> 20 (using Lootbox XP)

Pangolin Earth Armor 20 -> 30 (halfcost)

Alertness 33 -> 40

Calligraphy 47 -> 57 (eff 60)

ES 50 -> 60

Mednin 0 -> 10 (unlocks lootbox)

Mednin 10 -> 20 (lootbox XP)

Deceit 25 -> 30 (opsec)

Athletics 37 -> 47 (eff 50)

Taijutsu 47 -> 57 (eff 60)

And then, since we need a new 10-stat anyway, this is where I say we pick up THing.

It's after we've raised our Calligraphy up to a comparable level to our Sealing Stat, and it's after we've raised our combat stats a sufficient amount.

Here's mine:

Shrooms said:
okay so I've shared some sample build sheets for Hazou a few times but I think it will probably be easier for most people to read the progression by text so I'm going to put my preferred path here. We all want a lot of things for him. I strongly want combat and socials, as do others, we want calligraphy for him, some people want biosealing, etc.

Hazou Mid-Term Build Path:

Phase 1:

Boost Resolve. Pretty straightforward.

Resolve -> 68 (516 XP)

Phase 2:

Goal is Alertness 50. I've found this to actually be more efficient than Alertness 49 in many regards, and we'll want this to be a stat higher in our pyramid regardless so I'm not concerned with it taking up a 50 rather than a 40. I would strongly suggest supporting this with socials. We don't all agree on which socials we want at which AB, these are just my choices but could be switched out for other socials. I'm also tossing in MedNin 10 so we can start reading the notes for Biosealing, should we pursue it.

MedNin -> 10 (55 XP)

Empathy -> 20 (155 XP)

Presence -> 30 (255 XP)

Alertness -> 50 (714 XP)

Phase 3:

By now Hazou should contend with non-social-spec chuunin in social combat, having effective 30 or above in 4 different social skills, and with MARS/hax he is an elite chuunin fighter, so we can trust him not to be useless in e.g. future Daizen or Hyena fight situations bc he goes last. Now we bump Calligraphy for Sealing gainz

Calligraphy -> 49 (405 XP)

Eff. callig 52 approximately corresponds to Sealing 78. With max prep (+16), it corresponds approximately to Sealing 102.

Phase 4+:

Now we branch out and make Hazou good at whatever we want before prioritizing raising the Capstone. The order isn't super important here so long as you're raising supports before changing ABs. I think once we get to this part it'll mostly be playing it by ear as this is months away in-universe.

As of right now, I say more socials and combat skills, as Mari begs us recommends so here's an example order. If we've got banked Medical XP and we want to bring them all the way to 30 just boost some jutsu to support it. Pretty much all of Hazou's Earth jutsu are useful at any AB including lower ABs and bumping the jutsu would be helpful.

Intimidation -> 10 (40 XP)

MedKnow -> 20 (155 XP)

Rapport -> 30 (255 XP)

Athletics -> 49 (522 XP)

Taijutsu -> 49 (405 XP)

CR -> 39 (630 XP)

Presence -> 39 (315 XP)

Rapport -> 39 (315 XP)

....

and so on. Just raise useful things to the X9. We get more immediate mileage out of them and it only takes a little more to make them the next AB when we want to start raising top stats.

I've done the analysis already in this thread, but Taijutsu 49 and Ath 49 along with Alertness 50 let Hazou hang with jonin. Unfortunately it does not let him reliably beat them, it's still a toss-up and if they have more FP than Hazou he'll probably lose. Hopefully we'll have some better sealing tricks by then or something, otherwise we will need to move combat stats up another AB.

Closing Thoughts:

- I think our goal should be to get all the social skills besides maybe Intimidation to at least 30 before trying to raise the Capstone. I would really like Presence 40 for characterization reasons and because it, alongside Rapport, is how a lot of our current plans want to be approaching a lot of social situations and we're just not skilled enough to pull it off. It would give us the chance to actually manage to do the social things we want successfully. It may also be tied to Aura but let's not bank on that.

- We may also consider eventually raising Bleeding River Impalement to 40 or 49 such that if Hazou is in another Hyena situation he has an AOE to take out a ton of scrubs at once, as that would let him target 5 zones and with Boost hit for (49 + 6 (boost) + 1 (ACE boost bonus)) = 56 without even spending any FP. MARS debuffs also make enemies worse at dodging this attack so Effectively it could essentially be hitting in the 60s without any FP, which won't cut it against jonin but is perfect for taking down many genin and chuunin at once. It's also a half-costed attack due to ES which is very nice. It is chakra expensive so good CR (39 along with ACE is probably enough) would be needed to ensure he can use it without being too low to finish off the rest.

- Should we want Biosealing, Carving 30 will have to slot in somewhere.

- Another fun idea: Go for CR 49. With ACE and using Noburi to overcharge we are pretty much guaranteed able to Summon Cannai, for a medium consequence (~770 CP for a single Summon). CR is double cost so this is really slow, sadly, but c'mon it's Cannai, it would be fun and cool.

- Eventually, we will want to raise Sealing to 60 and then above Resolve into the 70s. That is the ultimate goal of Detour 1, but I think it is absolutely vital we take some time to fix up his build first. We already have S-Rank sealing to mess around with in the meantime, and once Hazou is at jonin level after doing these steps we can take Sealing to god-levels.

Ironically, the comment immediately after it is you saying you agree with it 100%

At the moment though I think I'd switch up the beginning a bit and go Alertness to 39 and then Calligraphy to 49 immediately to speed up necromancy-prep research & combat seals. Then go back to the original plan of Alertness 50 and continue as normal.

eaglejarl said:
Please be aware that we're going to be very stringent about what counts as a debuff to satisfy the Doylist reasons behind the buff-stacking limit, namely, keeping combat complexity and related headaches managable for the QMs.

To be clear I didn't necessarily mean debuffs. For example, if we give her anti-ninjutsu seals like Jiraiya's fire absorbers, that makes her stronger compared to ninjutsu users than she would be without them, because they're not as capable of hurting her or defending themselves.

Keep giving her stuff like anti-Stealth seals, anti-Melee seals, seals that disarm or target weapons like lightning rods, etc. and she will be in a much better position against most builds

ProperAttorney · Jun 22, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Why Mednin/know? is it mostly because we have lootboxes so they can be cheap pyramid-support, or do we have other plans?(also, how do lootboxes work mechanically?)

Why do we stop raiseing our IN skills at on 7s? does the IN bonus count for the skill pyramid?

Why TH? dosen't it require a stunt, thus making it abnormally expensive? Hazou has more sealing projects than he has time for already, so learning a new research skill seems odd. THing seems like a skill we would either try to max to rediscover Flying-Thunder-God, or ignore, not a pyramid-suppourt skill.
Wouldn't a half-costed Earth jutsu be better? It would let us spend more xp on Enhanceing our strengths and bolstering our weaknesses, rather than trying to add another niche specialty that relies on spending time we don't have.

I'd Like to see presence in here: Hazou is really speech-y, and convincing people of our worldview is really high-impact. It seems worth investing in. Maybe raise deceit right away instead of Earth Armour(similar xp cost, because Deceit is halfway to the next level), then raise Presence as step 12, where Deceit currently is?

Not ROTP, but I'm also interested in medknow/nin and TH. You need the first two for the biosealing stunt. The latter is needed for the Minato seals beyond MS8. We don't have a pressing need for those right now, but it likely unlocks a new sealing medium, seals that are chakra constructs. Hopefully gets around the need to cut people open for biosealing.

Shrooms · Jun 22, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Why Mednin/know?

Biosealing

Left-Hand Mutant said:
we have lootboxes so they can be cheap pyramid-support

Also true. They're free up to 30 more or less (though you still need to pay for 10s/20s supports.)

Left-Hand Mutant said:
, how do lootboxes work mechanically?

You spend a training block of 3 hours to get a chunk of xp per day. Reading from the same author decreases their value so it goes from 4/day to 3/day to 2/day to 1/day for Hazou.

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Why do we stop raiseing our IN skills at on 7s? does the IN bonus count for the skill pyramid?

It does count as a new AB, yes. Imo we should just go to the 9s anyways though.

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Why TH?

To do Minato notes past the 8th seal

Left-Hand Mutant said:
dosen't it require a stunt, thus making it abnormally expensive?

Yup. 250 big ones just for the stunt and 3 months to learn it.

Left-Hand Mutant said:
I'd Like to see presence in here: Hazou is really speech-y, and convincing people of our worldview is really high-impact

I agree with you here.

Similarly, I probably wouldn't level PEA right now. I don't think we've ever used it, and while it has its uses as a pretty potent armor ninjutsu I think Hazou would be better served raising different earth jutsu that are also good (living roots, bleeding river impalement, HLaM come to mind.)

RandomOTP · Jun 22, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Why Mednin/know

Biosealing and it's free XP with our lootboxes, making it a good steal.

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Why do we stop raiseing our IN skills at on 7s? does the IN bonus count for the skill pyramid?

Hazou's IN gives him a +3 to a lot of physical stats, meaning that we can raise (for example) taijutsu to 47 but then roll it as a 50. It doesn't count as a 50 in terms of pyramid support, meaning that we can have Taijutsu 47 (eff 50) without having to worry about pyramid support for an additional 50-stat.

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Why TH? dosen't it require a stunt, thus making it abnormally expensive?

TH does, indeed, require a stunt, but we need THing to unlock the later Minato seals. We spoke to Asuma about it, and he said that the Tower would pay for Hazou to learn THing when the time came for it, if Minato's seals required THing to learn... and they do, so the Tower will.

Shrooms said:
Here's mine:

Honestly, I just got bored and needed something to do. I'll check it out later today to compare. I'll probably edit mine to be more in line with yours (I'm really, really concerned about Hazou's lack of combat stats).

Left-Hand Mutant · Jun 22, 2023

Why do you maniacs all want biosealing? It seems like a really bad fit for a non-psycho, and while we can try to find workarounds, we won't be getting nearly full efficacy.

---

Also, we live in Leaf.
Basically everybody, including some of our actual family, think Hazou is insane or unstable. He's already known as "the Mad Lord".
Hazou is noticeably traumatized and highly unpredictable, and has a reputation for reckless invention and narrowly getting away with treason.

It is a very good thing Hazou's weirdness hasn't scared people off or stopped him from making connections in Leaf.

Leaf has had one prominent biosealer, Orochimaru. If it becomes known that Hazou is following in his footsteps, we're going to destroy a lot of trust and goodwill. No matter what we say people will look at us like the next Orochimaru waiting to happen.

---

These costs(XP, skill pyramid, social/political disaster) seem like a high price to pay to unlock another research avenue that we wont be able to efficiently exploit without becoming an actual monster. Better to focus on our S-rank sealing, and spend our research time on the completely uncharted field of 3D sealing.

Sir Stompy · Jun 22, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Why do you maniacs all want biosealing? It seems like a really bad fit for a non-psycho, and while we can try to find workarounds, we won't be getting nearly full efficacy

We can test on chakra beasts. Oro just likes using humans. And Hazou's absurd Sealing means he can master stuff very quickly. I think it's a neat trick that can do very good things for us.

Unaligned Player · Jun 22, 2023

Also, phytosealing is an option.

Oneiros · Jun 22, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Also, we live in Leaf.
Basically everybody, including some of our actual family, think Hazou is insane or unstable. He's already known as "the Mad Lord".
Hazou is noticeably traumatized and highly unpredictable, and has a reputation for reckless invention and narrowly getting away with treason
…
Leaf has had one prominent biosealer, Orochimaru. If it becomes known that Hazou is following in his footsteps, we're going to destroy a lot of trust and goodwill. No matter what we say people will look at us like the next Orochimaru waiting to happen.

I'm not on team bio sealing but this isn't really a persuasive argument. Once you're strong enough you don't need a ton of trust and good will. Like Oro is the boogeyman but he still gets what he wants. We're going to change the world at the point of a sword so being scary just helps

Sir Stompy · Jun 22, 2023

Remember that if we have the choice to be a horrific monster for quicker routes to power, we can instead choose to do something else.

I'm not saying we will, but we can choose for sure.

ProperAttorney · Jun 22, 2023

Just to echo what some people are already saying...

Most sealmaster aren't very good. When those sealmasters try to learn biosealing, they will usually fail and kill the subject in horrific ways.

I'm not convinced that successful research will keep the subject alive either.

So we just bioseal research on different creatures. Chakra rice is apparently commonplace, could use those as subjects, or ask Noburi to knock a bunch of chakra fish/alligators unconscious with VD, or any number of other options.

MadScientist · Jun 22, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Why do you maniacs all want biosealing?

Unaligned Player said:
Also, phytosealing is an option.

This, very much.

Tobirama himself was researching plant-based chakra use in an effort to reverse engineer mokuton. There's all sorts of wonderful things we could do with phytosealing (botanical biosealing), from improving crops, to creating plant-based power armour, to creating plant cultivars that produce novel medicines and poisons (and potentially deploy them in combat), to plants that act as autonomous weapons, to terraforming Suna, to plants that act as life-support systems so we can stay on our feet despite injuries, to countering the lupchanz when we reach that universe.

Biosealing on (unwilling) humans is an atrocity that would absolutely get us the reputation you're imagining, L-HM, but personally, I'm a maniac who wants ethical and PR-friendly biosealing.

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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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