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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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[X] Action Plan: Refocus and Reform

Hagoromo is less important than Conclave. That said.
  • Group Projects.
    • Alchemy.
      • ES50 goes a long way in helping make chemistry discoveries.
      • Cannot recreate the mix for the best steel you ever made while dead drunk?
        • Pull out the trace impurities to compare with other mixes.
        • Make denser anvils.
      • Hire best minds to come up with experiments.
        • Stop by two hours, twice a week to knock out the best ideas.
      • Religious doctrine on nature of the world can adjust to new science, get ahead of heretics.
      • They have special fire?
    • Hagoromo focused.
      • Pick something they are good at.
      • Upgrading shrines.
      • Pilgrimages.
      • Preserving copies of sacred text.
      • Spreading the word at AMITY?
      • Religious tax exemption?
    • Math Olympiad?
      • Element of competition. Clan duos against clan duos?
    • Normal human Olympics?
      • Raises acknowledgement + self worth of people.
      • Propaganda vector.
      • Taijutsu training after the Academy becomes less guided.
        • Olympic training innovations bubble up to ninja?
          • Akimichi supplements, byakugan medics evaluating muscle development. Special Tenketsu training?
          • Seal enhanced training equipment.
 
Sir Stompy said:
So what? This test isn't dangerous.
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In-character, Hazou was presented as not expecting the EM to become a WMD; he's just been engaging in paranoid precautions because he was pushing a technique past its explored limits. He's in the same boat now. Sure, we know that the ES isn't dangerous, but Hazou has no reason to be confident in that, given that the last similar experiment did in fact explode. It seems unreasonable for him not to be worried.

Also, are you quite sure that it's safe? What if there's some arcane physics interaction that means ES50 can lead to mass destruction, which the QMs figured out but didn't tell us (because why would they?)? Eh?

(Suggestion to the QMs: you should actually do that at some point.)
 
ProperAttorney said:
I think that no matter how many times it happens, the Hivemind will not pick up on every instance of cultural dissonance. It's all well and good for the QMs to point out after the fact how obviously this is taboo/bad idea/just not done, but it's become clear that we the player base are just not able to simulate proper ninja military expectations, proper clan secret compartmentalization.

I don't exactly have a solution for this, but you can only read "Oh, Hazō is an idiot who doesn't know he's supposed to [insert cultural norm here]" so many times.

No it's not the QM's fault we vote for these things. Hazōpilot doesn't cover everything. I suppose we're just doomed to keep repeating these mistakes year after year.
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What cultural dissonance are you referring to?
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
Tower bureaucracy
  • The timelines here imply a leak. It's implausible this was a sheer coincidence. Ambushes require intelligence.
  • Did Shikamaru investigate from that perspective? Can we get Kagome access?
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I think Asuma is going to mindwalk Ruka later and have her disappear. The Hagoromo are big on their reputation and she just tanked it, so they are going to accept that. Ritsuo is probably just going to expect some "compensation" down the line from Asuma for "playing along".



FaintlySorcerous said:
The Hagoromo are a big clan. Are there factions/individuals we might get along with better?
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We do have an (old) info post about this:
Velorien said:
Investigative Report: the Hagoromo Clan
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Velorien said:
Younger Hagoromo are divided between the orthodox faithful, those enjoying the moral superiority while only paying lip service to the actual ideals, and those earnestly (and quietly) struggling to reconcile teachings from centuries ago with a reality that no longer quite fits, though it's hard for an outsider to tell which is which.
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Buidling friendship with the younger generation might work, but is going to be hard with Hazou.
 
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Noumero said:
Also, are you quite sure that it's safe? What if there's some arcane physics interaction that means ES50 can lead to mass destruction, which the QMs figured out but didn't tell us (because why would they?)? Eh?

(Suggestion to the QMs: you should actually do that at some point.)
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Yeah I'm sure, we got some big brains in this thread, even if it was difficult to spot, it would have been spotted by now. There just isn't enough energy being tossed around to cause another WMD. Hazou hasn't noted anything heating up when he used it on the small scale.

The worst we have to worry about is a Sealing failure, and those are not out of the ordinary for Hazou. No reason to go crying to Asuma about it.
 
Velorien said:
What cultural dissonance are you referring to?
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Mainly what behavior is acceptable from a ninja with regard to their village and kage. I mean, it's become an in-character meme that Hazō will continue to accidentally commit treason. This is also the... Third? Fourth? Time that we've voted in something that violates the whole clan/bloodline/personal secrets thing. It doesn't seem to matter how big a deal it is in character, it seems to be too different a cultural expectation for it to stick in the Hivemind's many heads.
 
ProperAttorney said:
Mainly what behavior is acceptable from a ninja with regard to their village and kage. I mean, it's become an in-character meme that Hazō will continue to accidentally commit treason. This is also the... Third? Fourth? Time that we've voted in something that violates the whole clan/bloodline/personal secrets thing. It doesn't seem to matter how big a deal it is in character, it seems to be too different a cultural expectation for it to stick in the Hivemind's many heads.
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Of course, this is also one of the areas covered by sanity checks. There's a reason (well, multiple reasons) Kei went ballistic when she realised Hazō had decided to do the EM test without consulting her.

Edit: Actually, that's a terrible choice of words in the context of a fantasy nuclear test.
 
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ProperAttorney said:
This is also the... Third? Fourth? Time that we've voted in something that violates the whole clan/bloodline/personal secrets thing. It doesn't seem to matter how big a deal it is in character, it seems to be too different a cultural expectation for it to stick in the Hivemind's many heads.
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For what it's worth, I chalked it up to "Hazou-Pilot was too emotionally compromised to catch that."
 
Sir Stompy said:
???

That's Hazou sensing chakra. Not literal heat lol
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Are you sure about that?
eaglejarl said:
The warmth came not from the soil itself but from bits of the soil. Tiny, tiny pieces, far too little of it to gather up yet still present. The traces were so few and so dispersed that he wouldn't have noticed it if he hadn't been looking this closely
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Velorien said:
Of course, this is also one of the areas covered by sanity checks. There's a reason (well, multiple reasons) Kei went ballistic when she realised Hazō had decided to do the EM test without consulting her.
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I know, it's just weird. From an in-character perspective, Hazō seems to be literally incapable of learning this lesson, which feels bad. From an out of character perspective, if we're having to run these ideas through an Insanity-Filter ™️, is it any more spoon intensive to have Hazō think about some of these things himself? I know there's been concerns about Hazō being expected to reject all bad plans/ideas, but I think there's probably some middle ground there.
 
ProperAttorney said:
Are you sure about that?
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It reads to me like he's sensing chakra, but it could be gold or trace chakra metal, it's not literal heat.

Literal heat is not concentrated into tiny traces. It spreads out and raises ambient temp. I have no fucking clue why you think heat would act like what Hazou is describing.

The physics danger is that heat is released or consumed when materials are purified by ES. Remember that Hazou is reducing the entropy of the system by separating the components. OTOH solid state entropy is peanuts in general, so there's good reason to think it's not worth worrying about.

But the key thing is that Hazou would notice on the small or medium scale if things were getting hot or cold.

The problem with the EM nuke is that the phase transition is a boundary that produces extreme behavior. With this we can just gradually scale up to the max without worrying.
 
Sir Stompy said:
It reads to me like he's sensing chakra, but it could be gold or trace chakra metal, it's not literal heat.

Literal heat is not concentrated into tiny traces. It spreads out and raises ambient temp. I have no fucking clue why you think heat would act like what Hazou is describing.

The physics danger is that heat is released or consumed when materials are purified by ES. Remember that Hazou is reducing the entropy of the system by separating the components. OTOH solid state entropy is peanuts in general, so there's good reason to think it's not worth worrying about.

But the key thing is that Hazou would notice on the small or medium scale if things were getting hot or cold.

The problem with the EM nuke is that the phase transition is a boundary that produces extreme behavior. With this we can just gradually scale up to the max without worrying.
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Alternatively, radioactive particles. Seems much more likely to me than there randomly being trace chakra metal in a given rock.
 
Rafin said:
Clans trade jutsu some times.
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I don't think they do.

Rafin said:
One of the first big acts of Asuma as Hokage was the competition that encouraged sharing, among other things, secrets.
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Which this proves. Asuma had to incentivize people sharing jutsu despite the village being in shambles. As in they were willing to watch the Leaf potentially fall before sharing even what little they did share. Until they were promised rewards in return.

Rafin said:
I'm saying that it might be in our best interest and a good idea.
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Have to disagree. Hazou's entire life philosophy is in conflict with...every ninja, which includes the Leaf. They might become enemies one day if they decide Hazou's taking Uplift too far. Sharing with them our secrets makes almost no sense. You said later in a trade, but I don't think they have anything to trade, because they too, don't want to give up clan secrets.



@Dictator4Hire how would you feel about doing a vote swap. I vote your plan, you vote for mine?

@coldcutconvict same but...you should change your plan name. Right now it's voting for Dictator4Hire's and not the one you put up.
 
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[X] Action Plan: Refocus and Reform

I'm not incredibly on board with the 'Debate Ritsuo til we win' idea of reform here, I think theres a decent chance Asuma just slaps it down as something that will just lead to a shouting match in his office. Maybe I am wrong though, and I do like the ES stuff and going to Asuma to make sure we are in a safe place to test, given we know very little about how 3D sealing works, just have suspicions. That part of the plan is enough for me to vote.
 
Velorien said:
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Before an utterly perplexed-looking Hazō, Kei closed her eyes and reached for the crystalline clarity lurking beneath the depths of the world he knew. Whispers wrested at the edge of her consciousness, whispers she absolutely could not allow herself to hear in her present state. Clearly, she still lacked a true Mori's resolve–but in this instance, with a loved one potentially in danger, the facsimile would have to suffice.
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Lol Kei, Lmao even, you literally have a Resolve stat of 69, with how pyramids work Kei's resolve stat is probably vastly superior to Ami's as between her jonin level social and combat skills, I severely doubt Ami would have enough XP left over to support a resolve stat higher then 50 at most.

What even is Kei's definition of a "True Mori"? a Mori S-ranker who has a resolve stat of 99 as their capstone?

Come to think of it, it would be a rather amusing scene if you had Ami flat out admitting to Kei that Kei had a way higher resolve stat then hers, Kei being forced to face the fact that there's is something that she's flat out objectively better at then her sister would be rather amusing.
 
Black King said:
I don't think they do.
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Oneiros said:
We have actively and repeatedly tried to trade for jutsu and we have gotten exactly zero from other clans. It's just not an actual thing
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Takahashi traded with us and Tobirama made SC a high trust jutsu.

And those guys think it's possible:
Velorien said:
The paralysis experts Ommonē Clan have lost their drive with the recent death of inspired clan head Sae. They may be willing to sell an adoption slot in return for rare ninjutsu, which would allow them to pursue a new vision for the clan.
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Clans probably don't trade their signature techniques but everything else is negotiable.

edit: Oh and we traded with Yasuji some random nonsense.
 
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coldcutconvict said:
Feels like ES50 'eyes' are close to seeing particle level but 'fingers' are less sensitive. Test. Take a marble cube, split it in half. Keep splitting halves in half until control degrades too much to make a neat division. How many rounds down do we get? Are there still hot spots in the smallest sample?
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Sir Stompy said:
Huh yeah that's uranium then, crazy
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Yeah, see, that was what I was talking about. "Let's try to split up this volume of funny matter in halves as many times as we can," they said. "What could possibly go wrong?" they said. "It shall lead to profound breakthroughs in science!"

(I am mostly joking, I'm aware it wouldn't be that easy.)
 
Wordcount: 288
[X] [Science] Responsible Revolution
  • Optimize plans with Kei/Mari first
  • Inform Asuma that we intend to test another novel jutsu application, in the hopes of figuring out 3D Sealing. We expect no danger, but will be taking full precautions anyways
  • Take full precautions
  • Test 1: metal production
    • (With Cannai, with permission from Cannai and Asuma)
      • Tell Cannai what Earthshaping does and make sure it doesn't interact poorly with his domain first
    • Buy some raw ores (copper, tin, lead, silver, gold, etc.) and attempt to extract the metal with ES
    • Cast MEW and attempt to Earthshape all the metal out of the granite.
    • How much did we get? Is it true metal or just ore? How pure is it? What kinds of metals did we find?
  • Test 2: 3D Sealing
    • (On Human Path)
    • Test every substance you have that Earthshaping can affect
    • Make it as pure as possible and recreate the basic air-movement seal in stone, as done in Chapter 494
    • If it works, continue testing other materials with the aim of finding the most useful and accessible substrate
  • Test 3: Miscellaneous (where applicable)
    • Can we make better lenses out of pure silica?
    • If we compress silica, does it compare with weapons-grade metal?
    • En masse fabrication of metal items?
    • Can we make sharper kunai (with compressed blades?)
    • Is a kunai made of compressed metal stronger than regular kunai?
    • Can we compress coal into diamonds?
    • Can we make sheet glass for windows?
    • Look at other gemstones and try to recreate them.
    • Examine the Honey Cave crystals with ES. Are they unusual in any way?
      • Do they have any special interaction with your chakra? What if you use an earth jutsu while holding it?
    • Bring a sample of masterwork steel and attempt to recreate it

There's more that might follow up from these experiments, like what we do if the metal production experiment works and we suddenly have the means to crash Leaf's iron market, but in the interest of keeping this a Science! plan I'm sticking to just the experiments.

Per QM instructions, if you want to see this science added to your plan simply provide a link to this post within your own plan.
 
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