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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Null Pointer on discord mentioned the idea of using Earthshaping on an Earth Clone. Seems weird. Seems suitably SCIENCE. We should try it.
 
[X] Acres of Broken Glass

Mostly I want the loot (maybe the crystal has nature chakra!) and the shinies we can get by trading the fragments with Oro. If the expedition fails, nothing is lost.

Crystal didn't seem sentient to me. I don't mind doing a little mining expedition before we go.
 
I wonder if it's worth noting that the golems only appeared after Hazou tried to Earthshape the crystal, and that Hazou taking samples of the crystal, itself, didn't trigger the appearance of the golems.

I wonder if the crystal is really the "heart" of the cave's intelligence, or if it's just one point of many that we discovered? We might be able to negotiate removing the crystal in its entirety.

If it lives off of chakra, Hazou could dump a significant portion of his chakra into the Earthshaping jutsu (thus saturating the ground with his chakra), but then not do anything with the jutsu. The cave's intelligence gets chakra, it doesn't get shaped against its will, and we get a much larger sample.
 
RandomOTP said:
Null Pointer on discord mentioned the idea of using Earthshaping on an Earth Clone. Seems weird. Seems suitably SCIENCE. We should try it.
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To add to that point, the team successfully damaged this being and also escaped without casualties. It's not a given that the entity won't go dormant. Not trying to contact could put the locals in danger. I'll support earthclone diplo.
 
RandomOTP said:
I wonder if it's worth noting that the golems only appeared after Hazou tried to Earthshape the crystal, and that Hazou taking samples of the crystal, itself, didn't trigger the appearance of the golems
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He didn't try to ES the crystal. He tried to ES the cave wall to secure the area.

RandomOTP said:
Null Pointer on discord mentioned the idea of using Earthshaping on an Earth Clone
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I don't understand what this idea entails. Hazou uses ES on the EC? The EC uses ES on the cave. Neither result is likely to be interesting IMO
 
Sir Stompy said:
I don't understand what this idea entails. Hazou uses ES on the EC? The EC uses ES on the cave. Neither result is likely to be interesting IMO
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I mean that, once we get back to Leaf, we should see what interactions ES has with EC. Earth Clone is... you know. Earth. It could lead to weird things like being able to shape an EC's skin into scaled armor. Or it could do nothing. Or it could blow up. Who knows? I don't, but I'd like to.
 
Velorien said:


PSA: Jinchūriki Seal Chain

Hazō and Kagome have finished decoding the first set of the Fourth's journals. These contain research notes sufficient to attempt to reproduce the first 10 seals in the jinchūriki seal chain.

They believe these are basic descriptions of the seals in the chain.

  1. Creates a probably-invisible, tiny chakra construct that immediately dissipates.
  2. Creates a chakra construct that intakes a huge amount of environmental chakra, then slowly dissipates.
  3. Another chakra construct. This one holds the environmental chakra in it for a few minutes before dissipating.
  4. Another chakra construct. This one interacts with the environment around it in some unknown way.
  5. The same chakra construct as above, except the interactions are displayed on the seal. Kagome thinks there are similarities with his chakrascope seal.
  6. Another chakra construct that interacts with the environment around it, but this one channels an even huger amount of chakra.
  7. The same chakra construct as above, with interactions displayed on the seal. A scrawled note says "To do - ask Rin about med nin uses?"
  8. A variant of the seal above, taking in even more ambient chakra.
It is no surprise to Hazō and Kagome that the sealing failures encountered in the study of these seals were as bad as Asuma described, given the apparently huge amounts of environmental chakra these seals manipulate.

They both estimate that the first couple of seals are well within their capabilities, though each will require at least a month of careful work. The later seals are thoroughly beyond them. They hope that working through the chain will build important veterancy.

The last two seals whose research notes they have decoded are completely incomprehensible. Unlike Jiraiya's most advanced seals, these notes are not incomprehensible because of the incredible depth of sealing fluency needed to understand them. Rather, the notes use a set of jargon the vast majority of which bears no relation to anything Hazō nor Kagome have ever seen before, although the word 'headseal' does appear several times. It's all combined with dizzyingly advanced sealing theory. Still, despite the effectively-meaningless scribing and infusion notes, the testing information has let them surmise the behavior of the seals.

  1. Creates a probably-invisible, tiny chakra construct that immediately dissipates.
  2. Creates a massive chakra construct that interacts with the environment around it, and displays interactions on the seal. A scrawled note says "This is going to be very useful."
Notes for both these seals suggest that Seal 8 must be used during infusion.

The original research notes for all the other seals have been sent back to the Tower at Asuma's request. He will want the originals of the current set back before lending you the next.

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Want to use Minato's seal notes to shove this thing into Noburi's gut for +100 CR. Ambient chakra strong enough to damage seals is a good place to test earlier seals in the chain. Other thing it would be nice to test is planting buds of the crystal to grow ourselves. Check to make sure the cave is not escalating or relocating after being disturbed, otherwise fine to leave for now. Keep it around to revisit when stagnation sets in. Give the village a year's supply of the herbs they collect. Will not go in to the dangerous cave if uncompelled.

If it was evolving into a chakra golem, forcing it to spend chakra set it back.
 
[x] Action Plan: Grab Loot, Go Home

Do not underestimate the magic crystal that can magic Jounins from the earth, just because we have an OP jutsu.
 
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RandomOTP said:
I would adore such a change. I've posted some idle musings previously that may be of dubious usefulness, if you'd like something to start from.
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If we have another "aye", I'm adding it in ('cause we have a majority vote, yeah? Still, I'd like everyone's opinion if possible)
MrRobot said:
I gonna be honest with you, it will probably trigger another fight.
That said i know the option to try diolomacy again would be rather popular so...
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If everyone's ready to nuke the crystal, and no one in the vicinity's likely to suffer permanently from it, and the possible golems/new walls are not instantaneous kills, my idea is that if it triggers another fight then the fight's over. If the clones have big 'splosions ready and the summons have Ball of Firey Damage +5 as a Readied Action and stuff... trying can't hurt. All the action should only reach the main cast as a SC memory anyway, so a "talk to the hand" denial before it's (in all likelihood) one-shotted by dramatic overkill probably won't hurt.
I guess worst-case scenario the crystal itself moves, shifts stone to propel itself too far, too fast to see, and attacks all nearby villages to destroy the human nuisance. But now I've said it the QMs will have to change the password to the QM docs and it won't happen.
 
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Sir Stompy said:
I don't particularly mind, but what are we asking it for? I want to study its corpse. Not a lot of room for negotiation there.

I also don't think it's going to work, so it's rather a moot point.
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My angle is "try to convey we want peace and can be friends. if it works, we may develop good relations with it and having an alien monster friend of tremendous power is cool. if it doesn't, which I'm about 90% certain is what happens, we don't lose anything and we can still study its corpse, making it a moot point but at least we tried"
 
Lysbeth Succubus said:
I guess worst-case scenario the crystal itself moves, shifts stone to propel itself too far, too fast to see, and attacks all nearby villages to destroy the human nuisance
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Its less about worst case scenario an more about opportunity cost to me.
We are talking about an fundamentally alien mind here, and not alien like the summoned animals but alien like an chakra AI, the DC of the diplomacy roll is probably "too high to hazo make".
And failing lead us to lose the first move that could possibly lead to faliure than just alpha striking it.
But im aware that is an stance that would be fought to the end and is not a hill that i would die on.
 
Lysbeth Succubus said:
We're far past "unprovoked", Hazō asked it to move a little and it sent overkill back.
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There's pretty clearly a large inferential gap between the crystal cave being and normal humans, so what happened could very plausibly have been a miscommunication. (Would Hazou have tried to seal the room if he knew the cafe was alive and sentient? Would the cave have viewed Hazou as hostile if it knew he didn't intend to disturb a sapient being? I doubt it.) At this point I think the provocation we've received is certainly not sufficient to justify going out of our way to kill this thing. The team has exited the cave, is no longer in danger of being killed by the cave, we have no reason to think leaving the cave alive will pose a threat to us, the cave is not an intractable ideological enemy, Leaf is not at war with the cave, etc. The only justification for re-entering the cave and killing it is for the loot. Which, I think, is a pretty weak justification for killing something plausibly sapient (much less plausibly one-of-a-kind in the world) by Uplift ethics. And I'd like to remind everyone that following consistent ethical principles is not just for the sake of roleplaying, Akane and others are expecting Hazou to be better than this.

Lysbeth Succubus said:
And Hazō thinks the crystal, if not completely worthless, might be worth enough to make the clan STINKY RICH. If it's worthless, gifting it to Snuncle may be worth enough to make the clan SAFE FROM SNUNCLE FOR A GOOD WHILE. There's no trade worth that much, except maybe the spider silk one long-term, which... well, we have it.
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We really have no idea what the cave is, what resources or services it can offer, etc. and killing it is basically guaranteed to close off at least some opportunities permanently. Maybe the cave can be farmed, and produce valuable resources on a recurring basis. Maybe the cave can be allied and serve as a formidable fortification. Maybe the cave can reproduce and we can take a spore back to Leaf to start growing Gouketsu Cave-kun. I don't think we are in immediate need of more wealth and see no reason not to leave this be, come back to it when we're more powerful, do a proper assessment of what opportunities are available, and make a plan for trade and/or harvesting at that point.
 
I guess my main points pro: getting back and punching it (maybe attempting to talk first, which IMO has upsides, but there are arguments that they might turn into downsides, and we still don't know if that's... technique feedback, or actual communication) are:
1) It's routinely killing people, and it's really not very Uplift to keep the orphan grinder plugged in.
2) This is a deathworld, politics-wise and literally. "Our clan is fine right now" won't save us from the next kaiju, but having resources to spare might. We can use them for Oro goodwill, for training, for land we can hide in, for helping people...
3) We need to learn how sealing in stone works. This is the first time we encounter rock that actually holds chakra in it. We can't pass an opportunity to study that.
 
acidshill said:
We really have no idea what the cave is, what resources or services it can offer, etc. and killing it is basically guaranteed to close off at least some opportunities permanently. Maybe the cave can be farmed, and produce valuable resources on a recurring basis. Maybe the cave can be allied and serve as a formidable fortification. Maybe the cave can reproduce and we can take a spore back to Leaf to start growing Gouketsu Cave-kun. I don't think we are in immediate need of more wealth and see no reason not to leave this be, come back to it when we're more powerful, do a proper assessment of what opportunities are available, and make a plan for trade and/or harvesting at that point.
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I really want to emphasize this part. We have no clue how much potential this thing has, and killing it commits us to 'loot the corpse' and then nothing more. I'm in favour of doing more crystal stuff, now or later, but even if I was on board with in the end killing it I would want to first study it alive.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
I really want to emphasize this part. We have no clue how much potential this thing has, and killing it commits us to 'loot the corpse' and then nothing more. I'm in favour of doing more crystal stuff, now or later, but even if I was on board with in the end killing it I would want to first study it alive.
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IMO that makes an approach that's "try to talk first but go do it now" all the more important. If we can really communicate with it, let's find out now so we can actually start a potentially beneficial relationship. If we can't, reap it now. The only risk for real loss is if it is only aggressive and we make it to something like S-rank and can shrug its attacks off to study it in action. Still, I can hardly see it being uniquely beneficial in this case.
 
Sir Stompy said:
@Paperclipped is there a roll summary of Akane and Yuno's fight with the golems?
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Initiative:
?? Stone Golem
?? Yuno
42 Akane (-30 CP)


Round 1

Stone Golem
As per usual, the golem is not hostile in the first round.

Yuno
Supplemental: Stow Satsuko (and retrieved crystals)
Standard: Thunderburst (-?? CP)
Supplemental: Draw Satsuko

Akane
Supplemental: Pantokrator's Hammer (-16 CP)
Standard: Flame Aura: (-36 CP)

Akane: 60 CP remaining


Round 2

Stone Golem
Golem (Hands): ??
Yuno (MW): ??

Golem takes ? stress, removes ? with armor, so ? stress. Nowhere near a Consequence.

Yuno
Yuno (MW): ?? (-1 FP)
Golem (Hands): ??

? stress, since Mountain Cleaver Style ignores ? points of armor. This is below its stress track value, so stress increases by 1.

Akane
Pantokrator's Hammer (-16 CP)
Does she get Youthful Fist? Lmao

Akane (Taijutsu): 54 + 12 (PKH) + 3 (Narrow blast rings) + 9 (Flame Aura) - 1 (PCJ) + 6 (invoke "YOUTHFUL Taijutsu Star") + 6 (invoke "Flanking with Yuno") + 3 = 92
Golem (Hands): ??

Akane would deal ? + 2 = ? stress, but ? is removed thanks to ??? and ? more is removed by armor, so she only does ? stress. Since this is below the golem's current stress track value, it increases its stress by 1.

Pantokrator's Hammer (-16 CP)

Akane: 28 CP remaining | -2 FP


Round 3

Stone Golem
Golem (Hands): ??
Yuno (MW): ?? (-1 FP)

Yuno takes ? stress, breaking PCJ and filling her stress track.

Yuno
Yuno (MW): ?? (-2 FP)
Golem (Hands): ??

? + ? stress, minus ?, inflicting a Mild, a Mild, and a Moderate. Stone Golem reflexively removes the two Milds.

Akane
Pantokrator's Hammer (-22 CP)
Refresh blast rings
Akane (Taijutsu): 54 + 12 (PKH) + 9 (Flame Aura) + 3 (Narrow blast rings) - 1 (PCJ) + 6 (invoke "Flanking with Yuno") + 6 (tag Moderate) - 3 = 86
Golem (Hands): ??

Akane deals 0 stress after armor.

Akane feels Zinnia pop and calls a retreat.

Akane: 6 CP remaining | -1 FP


Round 4

Stone Golem
Golem (Hands): ??
Akane (Taijutsu): 54 + 6 (PKH) + 6 (invoke Moderate) - 1 (PCJ) + 9 = 78

Akane deals 0 stress after armor.

Yuno
Yuno (MW): ??
Golem (Hands): ??

Yuno deals ? + ? - ? stress after Mountain Cleaver Style, which kills it.

Stone Golem 2
(phases through the wall)

Akane
Let's get outta there.

Akane (Athletics): 48 + 9 (Flame Aura) - 3 = 54
She can move 3 zones. 1 more with a Supplemental.


Round 5

Yuno
Supplemental Sprint
Block the golem from advancing down the tunnel to get Akane.

Yuno (Melee Weapons): ?? (-1 FP)

Stone Golem
Vine Whip Yuno back into the cavern

Golem (Vine Whip): ??
Yuno (Athletics): ??

Yuno barely dodges.


Yeah, that's enough fighting. Can the team open the distance and escape?

Golem (Athletics): ??
Akane (Athletics): 48 + 9 (Flame Aura) + 6 (tag "Head Start") + 6 (tag "We Set Traps") - 1 (PCJ) + 3 = 72
Yuno (Athletics): ??

Akane is about to get caught by the golem, so she will overdraw for a Mild in order to use the prepared Substitution targets. Taking a Mild instantly breaks Flame Aura, which burns her, but she hasn't taken stress yet, so she puts all that stress into her stress track. She then adds 11 and gets away.

+1 FP for winning the fight.

Akane: 8 CP, -3 FP (3 FP current)
 
Lysbeth Succubus said:
IMO that makes an approach that's "try to talk first but go do it now" all the more important. If we can really communicate with it, let's find out now so we can actually start a potentially beneficial relationship. If we can't, reap it now. The only risk for real loss is if it is only aggressive and we make it to something like S-rank and can shrug its attacks off to study it in action. Still, I can hardly see it being uniquely beneficial in this case.
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We don't need to be able to communicate for it to be valuable alive. Being able to communicate might make it easier to do certain things, or might open up opportunities to gain forbidden lore, but it's also possible that the unique ecosystem of the crystal cave produces unique flora and fauna, or that the crystal can regenerate chunks of itself harmlessly and we can farm the chakra crystal indefinitely. Killing it now just eliminates all potential value other than its corpse.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
We don't need to be able to communicate for it to be valuable alive. Being able to communicate might make it easier to do certain things, or might open up opportunities to gain forbidden lore, but it's also possible that the unique ecosystem of the crystal cave produces unique flora and fauna, or that the crystal can regenerate chunks of itself harmlessly and we can farm the chakra crystal indefinitely. Killing it now just eliminates all potential value other than its corpse.
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Well now we're weighing "potentially more crystal, and flora in case we can't farm more of the specimens we take" against "definitely villagers dying". The fauna is a thing, but it's mostly a thing that is killing the villagers.
 
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