Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

faflec · Jun 28, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Brother, Sister
@FaintlySorcerous Generic Mari sanity-check yadda yadda, but also the lack of a tracker is an issue, one which we may or may not be able to fix with our current Summons.

Side note: I had the weird idea of kidnapping a Kotsuzui and then proceeded to remember that Akane still got marked via Hot Springs.

Oneiros · Jun 28, 2022

faflec said:
but also the lack of a tracker is an issue, one which we may or may not be able to fix with our current Summons.

We actually have this problem solved thanks to the illustrious @Shrooms canon chapter

Shrooms said:
Canvass found him the next day, the only tracker of those that had spoken up to actually do so. After agreeing to a year-long contract, with the express condition that Canvass would be joining an expedition to track a Scroll, Hazou finally had to say, "I'm glad you came around Canvass. And… I'm sorry I couldn't find that pack in the Human Path. I know that was important to you."

eaglejarl said:
@Shrooms Could you do me a favor and fix the title on chapter 492.1 to match the style that we use elsewhere?

Also, it appears to be missing from the Story-Only thread. If you could post it there, that would be great. Thanks.

Oh, and 5 extra XP seem to have appeared on Hazō et al's character sheets. ;>

edit: FOOM XP for chapter 526

Base XP:3
Akane: 65 Resolve -> 2 * 3 = 6 FOOM XP
Hazo: 50 Resolve -> 1.5 * 3 = 4.5 FOOM XP
Kei: 60 Resolve -> 1.4 * 3 = 4.2 FOOM XP

RandomOTP · Jun 28, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Brother, Sister

Oneiros · Jun 28, 2022

RandomOTP said:
[X] Action Plan: Brother, Sister

Is there any particular reason why your not voting for my plan? You voted for it when I proposed it for Vel's last chapter so was just wondering what changed

RandomOTP · Jun 28, 2022

Oneiros said:
Is there any particular reason why your not voting for my plan? You voted for it when I proposed it for Vel's last chapter so was just wondering what changed

Honestly didn't see it (busy irl, haven't been keeping up with the thread). It has Hazou teaching Harumitsu, which is something Asuma "hinted" that he wanted Hazou to resume doing. Harumitsu needs a strong, positive association with Hazou (and, thereby, the Goketsu) if we want him to be our lever to move the Hagoromo to a better place. It's earned my vote.

[] Action plan: A little bit of fluff

RandomOTP · Jun 28, 2022

Velorien said:
Unfortunately, at the moment it is not as simple as more or less fun, since my hand injury is interfering with my typing and thus raising all spoon costs. I'd be happy to write the Noburi scene. It might be interesting to write the Kagome scene, but I'm not sure I can right now. I don't have any experience writing Harumitsu yet, so that would probably be the most challenging.

@Oneiros, skimming through the thread and I found this. Would you be willing to offscreen the Harumitsu conversation, for the sake of presenting QM Spoons?

That way, the Harumitsu segment still happens, all the plot-benefits are still achieved (Asuma happy, Harumitsu goodwill raised, Harumitsu sealing progress boosted), and Vel can on-screen the KEI conversation (a character he has, historically, enjoyed writing).

FaintlySorcerous · Jun 28, 2022

faflec said:
@FaintlySorcerous Generic Mari sanity-check yadda yadda, but also the lack of a tracker is an issue, one which we may or may not be able to fix with our current Summons.

Done.

@Eisenhelm, , @ProperAttorney, @kitkatnacho, are there modifications I could make to my plan (quoted below) that would get your vote?

My intention is to put a plan which largely constitutes the two fragments in the second quote forward as soon as this chapter posts: I think that the Harumitsu scene is important/good, but EJ writing it might make more sense from a logistical perspective, and Vel said he'd be happy to write the Noburi apology, which both gets us important information (if Noburi wants to pursue medicine or jutsu we can dump XP into them pretty much now) and might be fun to read because they have a cool dynamic.

FaintlySorcerous said:
[X] Action Plan: Brother, Sister
Word count: <300

Sanity-check w/Mari.

Noburi

We're sorry. We were tired. We took that out on you.

That's not fair, that's not right, that's not the sort of brother we want to be.

You're brilliant and ambitious. We want to do everything we can to help you be the person everyone knows you'll be as quickly as possible.

Being an asshole is a betrayal of that.

Everything you want to do is important. It's not - yet - possible for you to do it all at once.

We're working on Shadow Clone.

What do you want to do?

Do you want advice? (We'll think about it if so.)

Kei/Snowflake

We'd like to go after the Squirrel Scroll.

Lay out the information we have: bloody clothes, rough time/place.

Do the Nara know anything else? Information about the Eastern Continent meeting? General thoughts?

We'd love you to come with us.

It's been a while since we've gotten to spend any time together other than planning meetings, doing damage control, or twisting Shikamaru's arm. We miss spending simple time with you, and the mission would be a nice opportunity to relive some of the old days, with a little less terror.

Is there anything we can do to make that possible/attractive?

Team composition:

Akane - ideally, we want the scroll for her.

You - wax eloquently about her brilliance until she makes us stop.

Snowflake - do the same thing as above.

Who else - Yuno? Noburi? Haru? Hire some chuunin? What do you think?

Misc.

Ask the leader of the Skyslider team if they have a subordinate who could head another research project without crippling Skyslider research.

If so, give them a few people off the Skyslider team, hire a few folks, and pursue hot air balloons.

Animal oil for fuel? Spider silk (waxed) for balloons?

FaintlySorcerous said:
Word count: 131
Kagome:

Visit the Great Seal. Indulge Kagome's every paranoia when planning and executing the approach.

Use the tunnels? Get carried into the air?

Use the diagnostic seals? Just observe?

It's a damn shame we can't get a better look from a safer distance.

(OOC: QMs telescope pls.)

Back on the Human Path…

What do you think?

Any ideas how to kill the remaining Dragons without blowing up the Great Seal?

Did you see anything that changes your interpretation of our model Great Seal?

You have a unique perspective - you saw our model, and then you saw the seal. Share that with Leaf's other sealmasters?

Invite Harumitsu to the conversation - not as instruction, but as one of Leaf's preeminent sealmasters, a good sounding board, and someone who's contributed significantly to the project.

Word count: 127
Harumitsu:

Discuss his progress - areas of strength and weakness.

Invite him to speak - what's working for him? What isn't? What does he want?

Demand honesty - sealmasters who can't communicate openly and clearly cause seal failures. Get in a social contest if he's hiding things.

Respond thoughtfully. Introduce CCnJ if appropriate. Accept mistakes and inadequacies. Listen to his feelings, communicate that you're taking them seriously, and then make plans to address shortcomings.

How's he finding being a sealmaster within Hagomoro?

Time to select a first research project?

Apologize for being absent.

What we were doing was critical but we regret not being around.

Teaching him is a joy. We regret, deeply, the circumstances under which we met, but we're indescribably grateful that we did.

We're proud of him.

coldcutconvict said:
It feels like the 'hey, pick one' framing was voted in and was part of the reason the first conversation did not go well.

My read was that 'quit jumping to the new sexy every time it appears' was most of his issue.

eaglejarl said:
"I'm saying you shouldn't chase after the latest shiny thing that's going to make you feel like you're making a difference. I'm saying you should figure out what's going to let you make a difference."

"'Chasing after the latest shiny thing'? That's a bitch way to put it, bro."

coldcutconvict said:
Asking Noburi to pick something without any input is cold. It sends a message of indifference to a big decision in his life, the opposite side of the spectrum to revoking his choice. Hazō should share his preferences but make it clear that his biggest preference is Noburi's health and happiness. Sharing preferences is hard because not all voters agree.

I don't think that saying 'hey, can you articulate what you're focusing on here' is indifferent. However, I've add a line asking if he wants us to share our input and then punt that to a later vote.

coldcutconvict said:
Can only articulate that the elephant in the room is SC. Not mentioning it or the obstacles to getting it for Noburi after he worked for one year on ACE feels like too important of an omission, if not deceptive.

I think he knows that we're trying to get it for him, but we don't (currently) have any good angles for doing so.

Oneiros · Jun 28, 2022

coldcutconvict said:
in and was part of the reason the first conversation did not go well. Asking Noburi to pick something without any input is cold. It sends a message of indifference to a big decision in his life, the opposite side of the spectrum to revoking his choice. Hazō should share his preferences but make it clear that his biggest preference is Noburi's health and happiness. Sharing preferences is hard because not all voters agree. Can only articulate that the elephant in the room is SC. Not mentioning it or the obstacles to getting it for Noburi after he worked for one year on ACE feels like too important of an omission, if not deceptive.

Would just like to signal that I am largely in agreement with this

FaintlySorcerous · Jun 28, 2022

Made some changes to the Noburi section (ping @Oneiros and @coldcutconvict). Apologies for such rapid-succession posts but I figure it's easier to read them this way.

FaintlySorcerous said:
[X] Action Plan: Brother, Sister
Word count: <300

Sanity-check w/Mari.

Noburi

We're sorry. We were tired. We took that out on you.

That's not fair, that's not right, that's not the sort of brother we want to be.

You're brilliant and ambitious. We want to do everything we can to help you be the person everyone knows you'll be as quickly as possible.

Being an asshole is a betrayal of that.

Everything you want to do is important. It's not - yet - possible for you to do it all at once.

We're working on Shadow Clone.

What do you want to do?

Do you want advice? (We'll think about it if so.)

Kei/Snowflake

We'd like to go after the Squirrel Scroll.

Lay out the information we have: bloody clothes, rough time/place.

Do the Nara know anything else? Information about the Eastern Continent meeting? General thoughts?

We'd love you to come with us.

It's been a while since we've gotten to spend any time together other than planning meetings, doing damage control, or twisting Shikamaru's arm. We miss spending simple time with you, and the mission would be a nice opportunity to relive some of the old days, with a little less terror.

Is there anything we can do to make that possible/attractive?

Team composition:

Akane - ideally, we want the scroll for her.

You - wax eloquently about her brilliance until she makes us stop.

Snowflake - do the same thing as above.

Who else - Yuno? Noburi? Haru? Hire some chuunin? What do you think?

Misc.

Ask the leader of the Skyslider team if they have a subordinate who could head another research project without crippling Skyslider research.

If so, give them a few people off the Skyslider team, hire a few folks, and pursue hot air balloons.

Animal oil for fuel? Spider silk (waxed) for balloons?

Shrooms · Jun 28, 2022

The Noburi segment floating in a couple plans doesn't sit well with me either and I've had trouble articulating why on discord, but I'll just copy and paste one sort-of conclusion I arrived at:

"Maybe it's like, I feel like it's trying too hard?
I'd really prefer "hey I think I was a bit short with you, sorry if that was inconsiderate. I'll try not to be that way in the future" and that's the entirety of the conversation"

An entire scene dedicated to something that they've talked about a plethora of times and that Noburi is fully aware of how Hazou feels about is just not enticing to me, idk

Oneiros · Jun 28, 2022

RandomOTP said:
@Oneiros, skimming through the thread and I found this. Would you be willing to offscreen the Harumitsu conversation, for the sake of presenting QM Spoons?

That way, the Harumitsu segment still happens, all the plot-benefits are still achieved (Asuma happy, Harumitsu goodwill raised, Harumitsu sealing progress boosted), and Vel can on-screen the KEI conversation (a character he has, historically, enjoyed writing).

Not really. I want to see the Harumitsu scene for a little bit of fluff. If Vel is not up to writing it he can just pass. I also don't really like fundamentally changing plans when people have already voted for it

FaintlySorcerous said:
Made some changes to the Noburi section (ping @Oneiros and @coldcutconvict). Apologies for such rapid-succession posts but I figure it's easier to read them this way.

Your edits still don't work for me. It still feels like you are talking down to Noburi instead of treating him like a brother. Also not a fan of you having Hazou call himself an asshole.

edit: it also feels like you are just running the last conversation with Noburi over again

faflec · Jun 28, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Sealing Bros™
Word count: <300

Kagome:

Visit the Great Seal. Indulge Kagome's every paranoia when planning and executing the approach.
- Use the tunnels? Get carried into the air?
- Use the diagnostic seals? Just observe?
It's a damn shame we can't get a better look from a safer distance.
- (OOC: QMs telescope pls.)
Back on the Human Path…
- What do you think?
- Any ideas how to kill the remaining Dragons without blowing up the Great Seal?
- Did you see anything that changes your interpretation of our model Great Seal?
- You have a unique perspective - you saw our model, and then you saw the seal. Share that with Leaf's other sealmasters?
- Invite Harumitsu to the conversation - not as instruction, but as one of Leaf's preeminent sealmasters, a good sounding board, and someone who's contributed significantly to the project.

Harumitsu:

Discuss his progress - areas of strength and weakness.
Invite him to speak - what's working for him? What isn't? What does he want?
- Demand honesty - sealmasters who can't communicate openly and clearly cause seal failures. Get in a social contest if he's hiding things.
- Respond thoughtfully. Introduce CCnJ if appropriate. Accept mistakes and inadequacies. Listen to his feelings, communicate that you're taking them seriously, and then make plans to address shortcomings.
How's he finding being a sealmaster within Hagomoro?
Time to select a first research project?
Apologize for being absent.
- What we were doing was critical but we regret not being around.
- Teaching him is a joy. We regret, deeply, the circumstances under which we met, but we're indescribably grateful that we did.
- We're proud of him.

Eisenhelm · Jun 28, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
are there modifications I could make to my plan (quoted below) that would get your vote?

Shrooms already took the words out of my mouth in the noburi apology.
It's too much of an apology for the problem in question.

FaintlySorcerous · Jun 28, 2022

Eisenhelm said:
Shrooms already took the words out off my mouth in the noburi apology.
It's too much of an apology for the problem in question.

If I cut it down to 'hey, that was kinda shitty of us, we're sorry', would that work? I'd keep the part about how everything he wants to do is important etc. (in hopes of getting an answer so we can either spend XP or at least be confident what we're spending it on).

Eisenhelm · Jun 28, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
If I cut it down to 'hey, that was kinda shitty of us, we're sorry', would that work? I'd keep the part about how everything he wants to do is important etc. (in hopes of getting an answer so we can either spend XP or at least be confident what we're spending it on).

Not really, is hard to explain but it can be boil down to: this is how a counselor talks to their charge, not how a brother talks to another.

ProperAttorney · Jun 28, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
Done.

@Eisenhelm, , @ProperAttorney, @kitkatnacho, are there modifications I could make to my plan (quoted below) that would get your vote?

My intention is to put a plan which largely constitutes the two fragments in the second quote forward as soon as this chapter posts: I think that the Harumitsu scene is important/good, but EJ writing it might make more sense from a logistical perspective, and Vel said he'd be happy to write the Noburi apology, which both gets us important information (if Noburi wants to pursue medicine or jutsu we can dump XP into them pretty much now) and might be fun to read because they have a cool dynamic.

My read was that 'quit jumping to the new sexy every time it appears' was most of his issue.

I don't think that saying 'hey, can you articulate what you're focusing on here' is indifferent. However, I've add a line asking if he wants us to share our input and then punt that to a later vote.

I think he knows that we're trying to get it for him, but we don't (currently) have any good angles for doing so.

To echo what Shrooms was saying, I don't really care to make a huge apology for what a mostly normal conversation. Hazō was a bit rude, but what is in the plan makes him seem... extra? I'm not sure if that's the word for it, but unnecessary and honestly feels like pandering.

I would vote for something that was a) more brotherly in it's approach and b) more Hazō (lists).

E.g.

Apologize to Noburi, that was a very uncharitable interpretation of his desires.
- These are the pros and cons as we see them. Let us know if we're forgetting something.
- Earth Nature
  - High cost to learn.
  - Access to MARI and PEA.
  - Overlapping skill set.
  - Can be substituted by summons.
- Medknow+Mednin
  - Low, increasing cost.
  - No other Goketsu are skilled in it.
  - Notes available to supplement learning.
  - Synergy with Uplift efforts.
    - Noburi knows more about illness, it's causes, and how to prevent them.
- Resolve
  - Necessary for SC.
  - No need currently.
  - ~~Boring~~

Inferno Vulpix · Jun 28, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Sealing Bros™

Lord Marshal · Jun 28, 2022

faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: Sealing Bros™

I would be willing to vote for this plan if the preparation for the scroll hunt is added, even off-screen. I really like the Harumitsu segment, tbh, pretty good.

coldcutconvict · Jun 28, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
My read was that 'quit jumping to the new sexy every time it appears' was most of his issue.

Thank you for your response. This could be his issue, it is open to interpretation. If it is, it reads like Noburi overreacted. Prefer plans with fluid responses to unknowns compared to focusing on single interpretations, which your edit satisfies. Feels less fragile.

FaintlySorcerous said:
I don't think that saying 'hey, can you articulate what you're focusing on here' is indifferent. However, I've add a line asking if he wants us to share our input and then punt that to a later vote.

There is a trap where Noburi does not ask for advice because he thinks his brother would offer it if it was important, but his brother does not offer advice because he expects Noburi would ask if he needed it. Important to draw a line between things everyone is ignorant about and things only one person is ignorant of. Thank you for your change!

FaintlySorcerous said:
I think he knows that we're trying to get it for him, but we don't (currently) have any good angles for doing so.

Compared to learning Earth Element, there has been much less deference to Noburi's proposal to be studied by Orochimaru for patronage to learn SC. Could also share the delayed option Mari offered to trade land from the other side of the portal. Sharing bad angles is cathartic and puts everything on the table.

ProperAttorney said:
Earth Nature

High cost to learn.

Access to MARI and PEA.

Overlapping skill set.

Can be substituted by summons.

Could add commentary on the problems with learning any secondary Nature. As it stands, does not make sense to branch out until adulthood or for specific exceptions, like an infiltration mission. Inefficiently learning secondary Natures may be a cultural blind spot. Or if Jiraiya is right that learning every Nature is a strong advantage, it is much better to max FOOM to speed through all four.

Could add bullets about pure combat focus -- or Sage Mode. Only Noburi can learn it and it is a huge benefit to the clan if it can be shared. Sorry for any curtness, moderately tired.

[X] Action Plan: Sealing Bros™

Eisenhelm · Jun 28, 2022

[] Action Plan: Sealing Bros™

FaintlySorcerous · Jun 28, 2022

Nontrivial plan updates. Pinging voters so you can review: @Inferno Vulpix, @Lord Marshal, @faflec, @RandomOTP, @coldcutconvict. tl;dr changed the Noburi apology section up so the apology is much shorter and we spend time going over the pros and cons of his potential training plans. I tried to do so in a pretty balanced way as opposed to simply

FaintlySorcerous said:
[X] Action Plan: Brother, Sister
Word count: <300

Sanity-check w/Mari.

Noburi

We're sorry. We were tired. We love you. Are we cool?

We see your option as…

Earth Nature (positives: MARI/PEA, reputation w/Toads, negatives: high XP cost, not a unique skill (Summons, other ninja))

Medicine (positives: relatively unique, Uplift-aligned, notes available, negatives: backline work, doesn't increase survivability)

Jutsu (positives: survivability, reputation w/Toads, negatives: not a unique skill, limited Water jutsu in Leaf)

Resolve (positives: critical for SC, negatives: limited other applications)

Something else?

Trying to present a balanced picture. We support whatever you choose.

Do you have a decision?

Do you want advice? (We'll think about it if so.)

Kei/Snowflake

We'd like to pursue the Squirrel Scroll.

Lay out the information we have: bloody clothes, rough time/place.

Do the Nara know anything else? Information about the Eastern Continent meeting? General thoughts?

We'd love you to come with us.

It's been a while since we've gotten to spend any time together other than planning meetings, doing damage control, or twisting Shikamaru's arm. We miss spending simple time with you, and the mission would be a nice opportunity to relive some of the old days, with a little less terror.

Is there anything we can do to make that possible/attractive?

Team composition:

Akane - ideally, we want the scroll for her.

You - wax eloquently about her brilliance until she makes us stop.

Snowflake - do the same thing as above.

Who else - Yuno? Noburi? Haru? Hire some chuunin? What do you think?

Misc.

Ask the leader of the Skyslider team if they have a subordinate who could head another research project without crippling Skyslider research.

If so, give them a few people off the Skyslider team, hire a few folks, and pursue hot air balloons.

Animal oil for fuel? Spider silk (waxed) for balloons?

@Shrooms, @Eisenhelm, @ProperAttorney, I think this is probably (more) in line with what you were looking for.

coldcutconvict said:
There is a trap where Noburi does not ask for advice because he thinks his brother would offer it if it was important, but his brother does not offer advice because he expects Noburi would ask if he needed it. Important to draw a line between things everyone is ignorant about and things only one person is ignorant of. Thank you for your change!

Perhaps useful to note that I always asked Noburi if he wanted advice (at least, at the time you wrote that, I was asking him.) Thank you for the feedback, no worries about sounding clipped etc.

Eisenhelm · Jun 28, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
Nontrivial plan updates. Pinging voters so you can review: @Inferno Vulpix, @Lord Marshal, @faflec, @RandomOTP, @coldcutconvict. tl;dr changed the Noburi apology section up so the apology is much shorter and we spend time going over the pros and cons of his potential training plans. I tried to do so in a pretty balanced way as opposed to simply

@Shrooms, @Eisenhelm, @ProperAttorney, I think this is probably (more) in line with what you were looking for.

Quite, i think valorien would prefer to write this as well.
[X] Action Plan: Brother, Sister

Cariyaga · Jun 28, 2022

faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: Sealing Bros™
Word count: <300

Kagome:

Visit the Great Seal. Indulge Kagome's every paranoia when planning and executing the approach.

Use the tunnels? Get carried into the air?

Use the diagnostic seals? Just observe?

It's a damn shame we can't get a better look from a safer distance.

(OOC: QMs telescope pls.)

Back on the Human Path…

What do you think?

Any ideas how to kill the remaining Dragons without blowing up the Great Seal?

Did you see anything that changes your interpretation of our model Great Seal?

You have a unique perspective - you saw our model, and then you saw the seal. Share that with Leaf's other sealmasters?

Invite Harumitsu to the conversation - not as instruction, but as one of Leaf's preeminent sealmasters, a good sounding board, and someone who's contributed significantly to the project.

Harumitsu:

Discuss his progress - areas of strength and weakness.

Invite him to speak - what's working for him? What isn't? What does he want?

Demand honesty - sealmasters who can't communicate openly and clearly cause seal failures. Get in a social contest if he's hiding things.

Respond thoughtfully. Introduce CCnJ if appropriate. Accept mistakes and inadequacies. Listen to his feelings, communicate that you're taking them seriously, and then make plans to address shortcomings.

How's he finding being a sealmaster within Hagomoro?

Time to select a first research project?

Apologize for being absent.

What we were doing was critical but we regret not being around.

Teaching him is a joy. We regret, deeply, the circumstances under which we met, but we're indescribably grateful that we did.

We're proud of him.

If Kagome's already gotten a look at it -- which I'd be surprised if he hadn't already, given that's the reason he signed the scroll -- then why are we approaching this as if it's a thing he has to do now?

Shrooms · Jun 28, 2022

Cariyaga said:
If Kagome's already gotten a look at it -- which I'd be surprised if he hadn't already, given that's the reason he signed the scroll -- then why are we approaching this as if it's a thing he has to do now?

I actually think he hasn't seen it yet, we were told the Arachnids don't want to sacrifice any more Summons as a distraction rn, since after the first Dragon died they rampaged for a while. We'll need a different strategy to make them move for a few minutes.

I propose blowing something up, or perhaps several things up. Perhaps a MARS chain of blowing stuff up, leading them away

That, or clone shenanigans

faflec · Jun 28, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
Do you want advice? (We'll think about it if so.)

Instead of offering advice (which may or may not seem condescending based on the situation), maybe ask if there's anything else we can do for him?

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

gran dutch of douchery

gran dutch of douchery

gran dutch of douchery

gran dutch of douchery

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