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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Lysbeth Succubus said:
Rock, iirc, has fantastic sealmasters. They maybe don't have the right kind of ideas... or they're much better at stealth than we know
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Maintaining uncertainty as to whether or not they have them prevents us deploying them in some situations and forces us to treat them as though they might have them.

Depending on their losses at Nagi and any regime changes after, they might not have them, but I'd rather not bank on that.
 
It was said in the story that they're just having trouble training their people to use them right? Since they live most of their lives under the ground, versus Cloud living in the mountains or Leaf living amongst tall trees
 
We should have a pretty good idea of how far they are towards getting skywalkers since we hit one of their research bases. If there were no prototypes or notes is a very good sign for us
 
Attacking Leaf without skywalkers seems doesn't seem a particulary smart idea. Even without, basically everything else, it would means an horrible casualties rate for Rock ninja: you don't fight a peer ninja force can fly and survive. generally.

EDIT: That is in fact something Hazou should knows, as a Clan head with intelligence briefing. How is the war going?
 
The fact remains that Shirogane and his team got captured without any skywalkers. If anything, I would expect their jounin assets to possess skywalkers.

Lord Marshal said:
Attacking Leaf without skywalkers seems doesn't seem a particulary smart idea. Even without, basically everything else, it would means an horrible casualties rate for Rock ninja: you don't fight a peer ninja force can fly and survive. generally.

EDIT: That is in fact something Hazou should knows, as a Clan head with intelligence briefing. How is the war going?
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Their devastating first strike was without skywalkers.

The reason why Rock succeeds was because skywalkers are logistically constrained so we're not able to use it everywhere that matters. That was why skysliders was invented, but as of the current state of art, it's useful in only limited conditions.
 
Lord Marshal said:
Attacking Leaf without skywalkers seems doesn't seem a particulary smart idea. Even without, basically everything else, it would means an horrible casualties rate for Rock ninja: you don't fight a peer ninja force can fly and survive. generally.
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Eeeeh. Collapse amirite. If they can easily and efficiently move around underground and Leaf can't that's essentially mirroring the situation.
 
Kiba said:
The reason why Rock succeeds was because skywalkers are logistically constrained so we're not able to use it everywhere that matters. That was why skysliders was invented, but as of the current state of art, it's useful in only limited conditions.
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I would assume by now Leaf has a decent amount of reserve skywalkers, at least for important mission and critical times, so i don't know how much that holds. Even if only Jounins and special Jounin use them, it basically means Leaf Jounin win the majority of the times.
 
Kiba said:
Rock continues to show a distinct lack of skywalkers. Do Rock not have any half way competent sealmasters who could research them?
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IIRC, Asuma said that a certain percentage of Leaf ninja couldn't use Skywalkers due to a fear of heights and that Cloud had more Skywalker-capable ninja than Leaf did, due to Cloud's geography. It might be that Rock has very few Skywalker-capable ninja, and so those few ninja are restricted to guarding Highly-Important Locations, rather than being risked on missions.
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien : Would this have been the first time that Akane has ever killed a human being with her own hands? Returning, did she seem at all disturbed by having to burn the town and potentially doom its thousands of people to starvation?

Would Akane have earned a TYS point or two for the experience? Poor girl is only at 3.

[X] Action Plan: The Shining Heart -- A Youthful Uplift Speech
Word Count: 488 (-1 XP)
  • Spend time with Akane in a safe, secure place.
  • Be present, and listen if she wants to talk.
  • If she wants reassurance...
    • The world is terrible. There's no undoing the atrocities of being a ninja. Hazou wishes he could undo the Sunset Racer.
    • Why is the world so terrible?
    • It's not you, Akane. Following orders is not any absolution, but you were trying to help end the war
    • Asuma isn't the reason either. He's taking actions he has to take.
    • It's the system. Everyone is competing with everyone else to try to win an accelerating race to the bottom.
    • The system punishes those who try to act better. Ninja who treat civilians as worth more than their resources get exploited for their weakness.
    • It's an antlion pit. Even with the scrip, which we were using to help people in Leaf, others in Leaf had to exploit it. If even internally, everyone is controlled by the competition, war outside is going to be nothing but atrocities.
    • That's the world. If you want to follow your ideals, the world will make you suffer by punishing every deviation from the competition.
    • But there's still a glimmer of hope. Two, in fact.
    • First, our words to Itachi at Todoroki Shrine were true. There are some changes that strengthen our ideals in ways that the world cannot take away.
    • Clanless ninja aren't intrinsically less than Clan. We showed that. Now, Asuma and Ebisu are working to ensure that everyone gets support.
    • Civilians aren't stupid and unworthy of education. We showed that. Now, a civilian research team has invented an independent form of flight.
    • These ideals can't be compromised because they're the truth. Eventually, anyone who doesn't respect clanless and civilians will be destroyed by the same competition that once enabled their prejudice.
    • Second, the world may punish you if you stick to your ideals, but the correct, youthful thing to do is to stick to them anyway. Eventually, we can be strong enough to do that.
    • The world may be an antlion pit, but if we grow large enough, we can simply step out of the pit.
    • Right now, we can't step out, so we follow orders. We can't forget or distance ourselves from the Sunset Racer, but we will one day be strong enough to find a better path when faced with the same situation.
    • Hashirama tried to use power to change the system and succeeded, but the world he made still isn't enough for our ideals. No other Kage has been strong enough to try.
    • If we want to change the world for the better, we need to act with great forethought, but the system of violence that the world creates cannot be allowed to continue.
      • (mechanical proposal: transmute Akane's "Youth is All You Need" Aspect to "Youthful Idealist", allowing her to buy Forged in Fire.)
  • If Akane would like it, find Ino and bring her in for support as well.
 
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Paperclipped said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien : Would this have been the first time that Akane has ever killed a human being with her own hands? Returning, did she seem at all disturbed by having to burn the town and potentially doom its thousands of people to starvation?

Would Akane have earned a TYS point or two for the experience? Poor girl is only at 3.

[X] Action Plan: The Shining Heart -- A Youthful Uplift Speech
Word Count: Absolutely terrible.
  • Spend time with Akane after her mission, in a safe, secure place.
  • Be present, and listen if she wants to talk.
  • If it seems like she could do with reassurance...
    • It's terrible that we live in a world where this can happen.
    • Who is at fault? What makes Leaf massacre Rock civilians and Rock massacre Leaf ones?
    • It's not you, Akane. You followed orders, in an attempt to win the war and stop the violence for everyone.
    • It's not Asuma's either. He's just playing the game he's forced to play.
    • It's the system. At its core, we live in a world where ninja need to hurt civilians, because the enemy ninja don't protect them.
    • Ninja are forced to desperation, to strike at the enemy's weakest points. Ninja don't see civilians as worth anything beyond their resources. They don't see the value in defending them.
    • The system is like an antlion pit. Even when Gouketsu tried to make money to help people with the scrip, we opened up a weakness that others in Leaf had to exploit.
    • If even in Leaf, we can't escape the pressures that forces everyone to competition and that forces everything to be terrible, how could war between nations be anything but the most terrible of atrocities, limited only by the practicality of performing them?
    • But there's still a glimmer of hope. Two, in fact.
    • First, what we said to Itachi back at Todoroki Shrine still holds. We can change things, little by little, in ways that are better and stronger than their old ways.
    • Clanless ninja aren't intrinsically less than their clan counterparts. We showed that. Now Asuma and Ebisu are working to ensure that everyone gets support.
    • Civilians aren't stupid and not worthy of education. We showed that. Now a civilian research team has invented another, independent form of flight.
    • These changes can't be taken away, because they're the truth. To win the game, in the long run, people need to respect the clanless and the civilians. If they don't, they will lose.
    • And second.... the Shadow Clone technique might yet give us the tools we need to change the system at a fundamental level.
    • The world may be an antlion pit, but if we grow large enough, we can simply step out of the pit.
    • It will be hard. Hashirama tried to use power to change the system and failed. No Kage since has been unilaterally powerful enough to even try, and Akatsuki, the one other group with a chance, failed.
    • Can we do the same? Should we do the same? For choices that are so big, so impactful, anything we do must be done carefully and with great forethought. But the world as it is, the system of violence that it creates, cannot be allowed to continue as is.
      • (mechanical proposal: transmute Akane's "Youth is All You Need" Aspect to "Youthful Idealist", allowing her to buy Forged in Fire.)
  • If Akane would like it, find Ino and bring her in for support as well.
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I would be careful about talking to Ino on our long term treason plans. That's exactly the reason she was assigned Hazō as a seduction target.
 
[X] Action Plan: The Shining Heart -- A Youthful Uplift Speech

Yesssss positive wholesomeness to cover doing war crimes; just what I needed :V
 
Paperclipped said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien : Would this have been the first time that Akane has ever killed a human being with her own hands? Returning, did she seem at all disturbed by having to burn the town and potentially doom its thousands of people to starvation?

Would Akane have earned a TYS point or two for the experience? Poor girl is only at 3.

[X] Action Plan: The Shining Heart -- A Youthful Uplift Speech
Word Count: Absolutely terrible.
  • Spend time with Akane after her mission, in a safe, secure place.
  • Be present, and listen if she wants to talk.
  • If it seems like she could do with reassurance...
    • It's terrible that we live in a world where this can happen.
    • Who is at fault? What makes Leaf massacre Rock civilians and Rock massacre Leaf ones?
    • It's not you, Akane. You followed orders, in an attempt to win the war and stop the violence for everyone.
    • It's not Asuma's either. He's just playing the game he's forced to play.
    • It's the system. At its core, we live in a world where ninja need to hurt civilians, because the enemy ninja don't protect them.
    • Ninja are forced to desperation, to strike at the enemy's weakest points. Ninja don't see civilians as worth anything beyond their resources. They don't see the value in defending them.
    • The system is like an antlion pit. Even when Gouketsu tried to make money to help people with the scrip, we opened up a weakness that others in Leaf had to exploit.
    • If even in Leaf, we can't escape the pressures that forces everyone to competition and that forces everything to be terrible, how could war between nations be anything but the most terrible of atrocities, limited only by the practicality of performing them?
    • But there's still a glimmer of hope. Two, in fact.
    • First, what we said to Itachi back at Todoroki Shrine still holds. We can change things, little by little, in ways that are better and stronger than their old ways.
    • Clanless ninja aren't intrinsically less than their clan counterparts. We showed that. Now Asuma and Ebisu are working to ensure that everyone gets support.
    • Civilians aren't stupid and not worthy of education. We showed that. Now a civilian research team has invented another, independent form of flight.
    • These changes can't be taken away, because they're the truth. To win the game, in the long run, people need to respect the clanless and the civilians. If they don't, they will lose.
    • And second.... the Shadow Clone technique might yet give us the tools we need to change the system at a fundamental level.
    • The world may be an antlion pit, but if we grow large enough, we can simply step out of the pit.
    • It will be hard. Hashirama tried to use power to change the system and failed. No Kage since has been unilaterally powerful enough to even try, and Akatsuki, the one other group with a chance, failed.
    • Can we do the same? Should we do the same? For choices that are so big, so impactful, anything we do must be done carefully and with great forethought. But the world as it is, the system of violence that it creates, cannot be allowed to continue as is.
      • (mechanical proposal: transmute Akane's "Youth is All You Need" Aspect to "Youthful Idealist", allowing her to buy Forged in Fire.)
  • If Akane would like it, find Ino and bring her in for support as well.
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Should we be talking about Akatsuki being on the side of good? We had no idea if their changes will be any good.
 
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