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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Ipsos Custodes said:
Has anyone mentioned that we should... you know, ask them directly what the issue is and what will resolve it? Our source for this is a letter sent by Hinata to Yuno as part of a scheme to get her married to Neji, it might not be the most reliable source of information.
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they also made a public announcement
eaglejarl said:
The Hagoromo did not say something mean about Keiko, they publicly stated that no Gōketsu will be allowed to marry until Hazō makes a public apology for arranging a wedding between two not-Hagoromo clans, both of whom sit on the Clan Council. (i.e., not minor clans)
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well I think this post got redacted actually. so not sure if the public statement got redacted
 
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You know, fuck it. Destroying the Hagoromo's political power probably won't harm Leaf's military readiness, and Asuma will just have to deal with his selectorate getting changed. Besides, given what's happening irl it feels like a pretty appropriate time to start burning down ancient regimes.

[X] Action plan: The iron star that will burn the world
 
Kiba said:
[X] Action Plan: Proportionate Response


Coordinate with Keiko, Mari, the Nara, etc relevant parties:
  • Give the Hagoromo opportunities to back out. Otherwise, put increasing pressure until they back off.
    • Start with circumvention, then economic and political attacks if that doesn't work.
      • If we can, we will just work around the Hagoromo.
    • Seek political legitimacy; bribe a Hagoromo or Hagoromo affliated priest; get Tsunade to officiate; have the hokage officiate it.
      • Whatever works. We may have to go to Church of Youth or the Toads to do it.
    • Keep in mind that the Hagoromo aren't only snubbing Goketsu ninja, but civilian Goketsu, who are integrated into the rest of the community.
      • Boycotts and collective actions are possible.
Misc:
  • Assign a SC to produce explosive and storage seals.
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Added SC to produce explosive and storage seals.

Sentient Tree said:
You know, fuck it. Destroying the Hagoromo's political power probably won't harm Leaf's military readiness, and Asuma will just have to deal with his selectorate getting changed. Besides, given what's happening irl it feels like a pretty appropriate time to start burning down ancient regimes.

[X] Action plan: The iron star that will burn the world
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Exactly why people think they can attack people without collateral damage?
 
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faflec said:
Oh yeah, that reminds me. We should try to bring Manaka into this.
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Good idea.

Kiba said:
[X] Action Plan: Proportionate Response


Coordinate with Keiko, Mari, the Nara, etc relevant parties:
  • Give the Hagoromo opportunities to back out. Otherwise, put increasing pressure until they back off.
    • Start with circumvention, then economic and political attacks if that doesn't work.
      • If we can, we will just work around the Hagoromo.
    • Seek political legitimacy; bribe a Hagoromo or Hagoromo affliated priest; get Tsunade to officiate; have the hokage officiate it.
      • Whatever works. We may have to go to Church of Youth or the Toads to do it.
    • Keep in mind that the Hagoromo aren't only snubbing Goketsu ninja, but civilian Goketsu, who are integrated into the rest of the community.
      • Boycotts and collective actions are possible.
  • Which clans or individuals can we also recruit to help put pressure on the Hagoromo?
    • Inuzuka's Manaka?
Misc:
  • Assign a SC to produce explosive and storage seals.
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Kiba said:
Exactly why people think they can attack people without collateral damage?
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What kind of collateral damage exactly do you suspect will happen? I'm hoping we and other clans will adopt all the Hagoromo if the clan gets truly destroyed, and while the Hagoromo will certainly strike back I think we have a good shot.
 
Velorien said:
Hinata gives you advance warning that the Hagoromo have stated they will not be conducting any weddings for the Gōketsu Clan until you offer a formal apology for making them bless Keiko's marriage "in violation of their faith". She adds that, per tradition, all Leaf weddings are conducted by Hagoromo priests, or priests directly affiliated with them.
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eaglejarl said:
The Hagoromo did not say something mean about Keiko, they publicly stated that no Gōketsu will be allowed to marry until Hazō makes a public apology for arranging a wedding between two not-Hagoromo clans, both of whom sit on the Clan Council. (i.e., not minor clans)
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I think we really need clarity about what the issue is since Hinata's letter and the Hagoromo public statement are not in accord, and Hinata's letter was written to Yuno to try and get Yuno to marry Neji so the claim in it is suspect.

Do the Hyuga benefit from the fall of the Hagoromo? They didn't vote in favor of Hiashi as Hokage, so the Hyuga probably don't exactly like them. The Church of Youth might have avenues of financial profit if they can get in on the marriage monopoly.

Also, wouldn't the Hagoromo be equally slighted by the Nara for arranging the marriage? Or even more slighted by their role?

The Hagoromo were involved with the wedding, directly officiating and juggling, it wasn't a surprise that was sprung on the priest that it was a Nara-Goketsu marriage - if it was an issue why didn't they bring it up earlier or refuse to officiate?

The letter from Hinata doesn't make sense or jive with everything else. Can we get answers before destroying them?
 
firestorm440 said:
"smash first questions later" is not a philosophy that tends to result in optimal outcomes.
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What more evidence do you need? The organization has clearly shown itself to be homophobic. They have came after us specifically. Right now we are just strategizing how to take them down. I don't really see what your objection is?
 
Oneiros said:
What more evidence do you need? The organization has clearly shown itself to be homophobic. They have came after us specifically. Right now we are just strategizing how to take them down. I don't really see what your objection is?
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You're misunderstanding. I'm acknowledging the contradictions in the facts that @Ipsos Custodes has pointed out and agreeing that it would be more productive to seek to resolve those holes in our understanding of the facts.
 
Kiba said:
[X] Action Plan: Proportionate Response


Coordinate with Keiko, Mari, the Nara, etc relevant parties:
  • Give the Hagoromo opportunities to back out. Otherwise, put increasing pressure until they back off.
    • Start with circumvention, then economic and political attacks if that doesn't work.
      • If we can, we will just work around the Hagoromo.
    • Seek political legitimacy; bribe a Hagoromo or Hagoromo affliated priest; get Tsunade to officiate; have the hokage officiate it.
      • Whatever works. We may have to go to Church of Youth or the Toads to do it.
    • Keep in mind that the Hagoromo aren't only snubbing Goketsu ninja, but civilian Goketsu, who are integrated into the rest of the community.
      • Boycotts and collective actions are possible.
  • Which clans or individuals can we also recruit to help put pressure on the Hagoromo?
    • Inuzuka's Manaka?
    • Ami, because she cares about her sister's happiness.
Misc:
  • Assign a SC to produce explosive and storage seals.
  • Doggo quest:
    • Inquire the Inuzuka about hunter dogs that may have worked with the summon clan.
    • Introduce Canun to Eibsu. Make sure we have permission to teach doggos Leaf jutsus.
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Add doggos quest section.
 
[X] Action Plan: Proportionate Response

@Kiba Can you add something along the lines of @Ipsos Custodes's post? What do the Hyuuga get out of warning us and/or Hagoromo being weakened?
 
I don't think we need to be bringing all these other people on board, mostly because I'd bet Keiko already has. This plan is trying to avoid stepping on her toes while assisting her from a social standpoint.

[X] Action Plan: A plan with action in it
Word Count: 211

  • Get Mari's intel on the Hagoromo, have her investigate further if necessary
    • Is there dissent in the lower ranks of the Hagoromo? Any other leaders we could help elevate to power?
    • Have her talk to sex workers, civilians, any ninja who gossip, are any of the Hagoromo homosexual?
      • Don't out anyone publicly, instead have her approach these lower ranked individuals privately for their thoughts
    • Get Mari's help to start a whisper campaign that there is a split in the clan over homosexuality even if there isn't one yet
  • Look into any Leaf or Fire citizens that are openly gay and hiring ninja
    • Get them to request the Hagoromo specifically, help citizens foot the bill
      • If the Hagoromo don't take the jobs, looks bad for Leaf
      • Force them to associate with the people they discriminate against
  • Meet with Hinata
    • Hiashi legitimized the Church of Youth as the Hokage™
    • The Church legitimized the Hyuuga as its leaders by making Neji head preacher
    • The Hyuuga have an easy route to religious power through the church of Youth
      • The Church of Youth is a uniquely Hyuuga manifestation of the Will of Fire, and you have the Goketsu's full support in its proliferation
 
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updated plan to be less talking and more action
Oneiros said:
[X] Action plan: The iron star that will burn the world
  • Introduce Canun to Ebisu
  • Burning the Hagoromo to the ground meeting
    • Explain to Yuno the details of the feud and that they hate us over Keiko's relationship
    • They have decided to put their petty vendetta over the good of Leaf. For that they must be stopped
      • But if they change their ways, they can be spared
    • Mari should begin to look for any blackmail material
      • Review Jiriaya's notes for anything relevant
      • Look for targets that can be drugged
      • Find out if they have any relationships with the yakuza
      • If she finds any opportunities her and Hazou will immediately go to implement them
    • Noburi, Akane and, Yuno work on building up the Church of Youth and Toadism. As well as looking to destabilize the Hags religious organization
      • Ask Noburi to begin summoning the Toadism priest to give public sermons (preferably in front of a statue of Jiraiya, to remind people that listening to toads is not against the Will of Fire).
      • Encourage people to begin using the Church of Youth for religious ceremonies. Hire people to talk about how "the Spirit of Youth is Hiashi Hyuuga's legacy and a totally valid religion" and really engrain it in the public consciousness.
      • Try to find priests who are affiliated with the Hagoromo and have an important one denounce Lord Hagoromo as going against the Will of Fire in order to start a religious schism.
      • We want to make alternative religions more powerful to decrease the power of the Hagoromo's priests
    • Haru get a list of any businesses or infrastructure that can have accidents happen
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