Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
The madness is tamed with good self care.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
I was under the impression that romantic love meant making your partner(s) your top priority with only your children being capable of competing for the least unhealthy relationships.The madness is tamed with good self care.
Xilentxium
Existential Crisis Management
- Location
- Temperate Regions
In this economy?Man, when you put it that way I wonder why so many young people aren't getting married?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I can sympathize with that. I'm on the opposite end of that spectrum, where monamory/monogamy is my default and only realm of ease, in terms of relationship-dynamics, but I also have an immense difficulty navigating social norms to the point that I have difficulty making friends. That's part of why I'm so active (arguably to the point of annoyance) on this thread. Not because I feel any romantic affection for you all (no offense.) But rather, because it's through the written word, I can type out my thoughts and then edit the wording for clarity as necessary. Combine that with the fact thatthis community is so damned accepting, patient, and kind, and I find that I don't feel as anxious as I sometimes do in RL (seriously, the CCnJ hits a bit close to home, lol).
(no, I'm not making jokes out of emotional vulnerability, what?)
Well, barring a renewed commitment in involving Keiko with family stuff (and a determination in being Ami's brother-in-all-but-name), none that I can really think of.
I'd argue that it's only a "poison" if the relationship itself isn't healthy, equal, or built upon mutually-agreed constraints/rules (made in brutal honesty and good faith).
Personally, I've had to guard my emotions with a level of rationality that was... difficult at times. For instance, I've never been one to "casually" date, and the way that I am... built(?) makes the "one night stand" dynamic... well, maybe not "intolerable" but definitely "very much not preferred." So I've had to approach relationships with the strict "is this something long-term" or "is this person's expectations compatible with my own" rationality. It doesn't sound too bad until you realize that not many undergraduate-aged people are looking for such a relationship --and of those, even less were looking for the relationship dynamic that I was.
It's only poison if everyone involved isn't on the same page --in terms of relationship "rules," as it were. For example, if one person is wholly committed, but the other party isn't (or if one person wants a specific dynamic but the other doesn't) then it's an absolute nightmare that the devoted party. That's partly why I was so upset with Hazou when I read through his attempt at an open relationship where he was dating Ino and Akane both. Akane was clearly unhappy in that specific relationship dynamic, but tried to force herself to accept it because of her circumstances (clanless, in love with Hazou who seemed to want such a dynamic, a woman in a sexist world, etc). Obviously it was "before my time" in the quest, but reading it still broke my heart and it's why I privately cheered Akane on when she ended things with Hazou.
I've always thought that it's not "50/50" or even "100/100" but rather, it should be "60/40" with both parties in the relationship striving to be the one who is the "60." Real life has a habit of causing mayhem and insanity, so expecting 100% from someone simply isn't feasible (for example, a soldier or a firefighter). But seeking to be the one who gives "more" is a way to be instill patience and understanding in yourself while also creating a drive to always "give" more for your partner. Of course, this phrase could also be used to excuse intolerable treatment, but that's where communication about one's satisfaction in the relationship and sticking to your dealbreakers/rules comes in.
The madness is tamed with good self care.
Exactly. A good introspection of your personal needs, expectations, and requirements in a relationship --and sticking to them --is a good way to prevent emotional pain. And a good partner will do their best to meet them. It's your call to decide if they sufficiently do.
No romantic love should ever be truly uninhibited or without constraint. There're always "deal-breakers" and other such caveats. A love that is completely, honestly conditionless would be a monstrous thing, indeed. One party could treat the other as horrifically (as abusively) as they so desired and be confident that the relationship would still persist.
There are the common conditions. The "don't have an extra-marital affair in our mutually-agreed-upon monogamous relationship," the "talk to me in my love language, as I will talk to you in yours," the "respect me enough not to lie" and, of course, the "act and think of each other as moral equals." But then there are the grey areas, the shades of murky confusion that need to be clarified before the relationship's formation. The "do we want children," the "we have an open relationship, intimacy-wise, but [here] are the mutually-agreed-upon rules surrounding that..." the "I'm a widow/widower and I need you to respect my late spouse's memory" and so on.
That's why I've been so big on "what does Hazou's character want from a relationship" and "what kind of relationship dynamic would he, as a character, be most comfortable in." Because if he doesn't know what his expectations are going in, then he's only setting himself up for failure.
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Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
This is why I'm not keen on love in general and definitely not for Hazou. I believe it is a response to a lack of a solid personal foundation and or an attempt to fill the gaping hole at the core of your being. The first will inevitably be abused and turn harmful, the second only widens the hole. Hazou doesn't need that. This feels like watching a good friend take up smoking.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Narratively: Hazou seems to genuinely love Akane, and Akane genuinely seems to love Hazou. They communicate enough that any personal problems that arise in their relationship --from unmet expectations or something else --should be dealt with before it becomes something huge. And they're both committed to each other's wellbeing and the wider Uplift Philosophy as a whole. So I think that they'll be fine (disregarding the natural conflict that comes with two people of independent thought/feeling/opinions joining their lives together).
It's partly why I'll be happy with the direction of the romance subplot, even if Hazou and Akane remain exclusively monogamous. It might not be my "preferred" ship, but damn if Velorien doesn't make it a tempting cruise to hop on!
Meta-narrative: Hazou is the clan head for the Goketsu, a new and frighteningly small clan in Leaf. So he'll have to marry at some point (but only once he's 18+ and with a legal, consenting adult). Personally, I'm fascinated by the idea of Hazou and Ino getting married (maybe he passes the Goketsu hat on to Noburi? Maybe Ino joins the Goketsu? Maybe they both stay Head of their clan? Mayb...) but if Akane wants to be monogamous with Hazou? I'm all for it.
(actually, @Velorien may have convinced me to jump ship on to the SS Hazou-Akane... I don't know just yet. Going to have to think about it. Whoops, @eaglejarl, it seems like you might have to step up your game, lol)
Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
Yes they both have the madness of love with each other as their target.
I have faith that they are mature enough to do this yes.
And here's where you lose me. Hazou's Priority are as follows:
1 Uplift.
2 Team Uplift.
4 Himself-Sufficiently powerful Uplift oriented beings.
5 Individual Persons that are not the above.
Hazou is devoted to Uplift first and foremost now and forever. Everything else is secondary to that. End of story. He is a passive entity and you don't date sufficiently passive entities, you date what they serve, and Hazou serves the abstract concept of world optimization.
Wait.
Wait wait wait.
Wait.
I just had a thought which will give the GMs migraines.
Can Snowflake summon and reverse-summon? What happens if she is created in the 7th path, but disincorporates while Keiko is on the human path? Asuma should know.
"Hi Pantsa! Meet my sister, Snowflake. You'll get along well."
Wait wait wait.
Wait.
I just had a thought which will give the GMs migraines.
Can Snowflake summon and reverse-summon? What happens if she is created in the 7th path, but disincorporates while Keiko is on the human path? Asuma should know.
"Hi Pantsa! Meet my sister, Snowflake. You'll get along well."
- Location
- Europe
I thought I was just joking that Hidan is Hazou's BFF.
Yay murder.
Praise Jashin.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes, because actively and publicly trying to cause the QMs grief has never backfired on anyone before. /dry-"humor"
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Morning! About to go to work, so I can't stay for long. I just wanted to pop in and say that Hazou-as-a-character has a little more depth than that. Sure, he's devoted to Uplift, but he's also the type of character whom I could see burning the world to ash if his loved ones/support network vanished. There's a bit of conflict in Hazou's character, between which should come first (family or Uplift). We've already seen him take a step back to respect people's agency and treat human beings like human beings rather than pawns on a chess board. I suspect that if Hazou had to choose between Uplift and Family (in the same vein of Ami choosing between her ultimate goals and her freedom), Hazou would choose his family. It might hurt him to do so, and he might have to readjust his self-concept a bit, but he'd do it.
Hazou's more than just the hivemind stand in, now. He's semi-autonomous, and that gives him agency and a will outside of our own. That's important to remember, I think. Anyway, I'm going to down this coffee and get ready. I hope everyone has a nice day! ^.^
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That... is pretty much why my partner of 14 years and I aren't married. The thought of honouring our love through a binding legal contract originally designed for property exchange (with the woman being the property) is not in any way romantic.
- Location
- Italy
Pretty much, perfect chapter, and another proof of how competent the Hazou-pilot truly his....Aside from the whole "Asuma almost killed him", i mean.
I don't really understand this objection. Everyone has priorities, I have priorities, it's normal. Normally people in a relationship don't have their partner as their only and most important priority. Having different priorities from your partner is not a problem in and on itself. Nor having different priorities make someone a passive entity. Unless the point is that Hazou is an Uplift bot with no sense of self, but that is objectively false.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Man, when you put it that way I wonder why so many young people aren't getting married?
One great thing about a long and well written story is that I can usually pull a quote from it if I need a good answer to something:
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Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
I really like those types of snippets. They show something that might be obvious in-universe but aren't as obvious from the outside unless you think about how the people that actually have to live in the world that is written, well, live.
Have I mentioned my general attitude towards authority figures yet? It usually comes up quite swiftly.
"Honey, I love you so much I want to get the government involved. Don't worry, we'll have lots of virginal bridesmaids to scare off evil spirits and a second-best man to take you if I chicken out at the last moment because after you enter you are no longer your father's burden and we can't have a woman just wandering around in possession of herself. That would be absurd."
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ami's face? More like Shikaku(.jpg)
Going off of this, I have seen benefits in my personal life as communication has moved to mostly text. It's a lot easier to think things over and really fine-tune the meaning of things. Word choice is important!
And absolutely with this thread - it's very nice to disagree with someone and not end up in a personal argument.
Eh not sure I agree. Remember you can still kill someone you love who has committed atrocities.
In practice I can't imagine unconditional love being possible though. Considering things like ramming a steel rod through your head can change your personality.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Really looking forward to the SC/EC munchkinning.
If you look at what your culture says a normal relationship is and find yourself wanting, take some reassurance in the fact that other variants are possible.
Strongest dislike for marriage have more to do with the legally enforced monogamy* and the bundling of legal partnership rights with a bond for life.
*(well it's only monogamy in the eyes of the law as plurality is also not legally recognised)
It's absolutely possible to cultivate relationships where you have long-winded back and forth posts for hours and hours.
If you look at what your culture says a normal relationship is and find yourself wanting, take some reassurance in the fact that other variants are possible.
Fortunately the norms here are optional. We're married and the cost of the actual wedding was <$300 including court fees. Only very few family members were there.
Strongest dislike for marriage have more to do with the legally enforced monogamy* and the bundling of legal partnership rights with a bond for life.
*(well it's only monogamy in the eyes of the law as plurality is also not legally recognised)
Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
I cannot agree with the claim that Hazou would choose anything but Uplift.
I can clearly see a scene in my mind of Hazou in a vast field standing between Uplift and someone he loves. He walks over to his loved one, pushes them to the ground and then strangles them with a blank look on his face that does nothing to hide the tears flowing from his face as he dies inside.
Yes he has more depth of character than a pure Uplift Agent but I see the Uplift Agent parts of him as basically being an override or circumvention of all of that. He'll feel anguish as he betrays his Blood but he'll rip them out and discard them all like a Breath of air if necessary.
Basically are you the Spear or the Spearman in relation to your major "thing"?
Passive entity describes your relation with your major "thing" as "on the side of spear".
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- Location
- Italy
Hazou-pilot was ready to start a war to save Kagome, that doesn't really scream "Uplift bot" to me.
Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
When was this? And not pure Uplift Agent, Uplift Agent circumvention.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I'd prefer if he doesn't decide to get his hair cut for a while.
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
Let's not be too hasty here.
If it wasn't for the fact that some children were the Unfavorite we'd never have gotten someone like Zuko.