Voting is open for the next 1 day, 12 hours
We should probably favor implosion seals and most drain for AOE. They'll be safer. If implosion seals won't work in a confined area purifiers wrapped around a training tag can substitute.

We also should probably hire some experienced mine engineers to inspect the mine and ensure that the operation is conducted safishly.
 
We should probably favor implosion seals and most drain for AOE. They'll be safer. If implosion seals won't work in a confined area purifiers wrapped around a training tag can substitute.

We also should probably hire some experienced mine engineers to inspect the mine and ensure that the operation is conducted safishly.

Added the part about bringing along mine engineers, specified "and combat" to Noburi's draining, and added your idea about AOE under the combat subsection. Specified the combat subsection as "should we enter combat alongside our summons," since we're trying to focus on shadow clones and combat summons for this mission.

[x] Action Plan: Dogs and Dungeon Crawling
Words: 296
  • Off Screen
    • Celebrate Noburi's birthday!
    • With Asuma's approval and input, arrange heavy escort mission for Koi experts ASAP
    • Complete Chakdar seal before departing.
    • Restock on seals, bringing an excess of every type
    • Hire experienced mine engineers to inspect mine and ensure mission is conducted safe-ish-ly.
    • Suggest that Noburi wear his chakra-megalodon jacket (provided it gives a boost to stats)
  • Enable Dungeon Crawl, with Candoru scouting ahead along the way
  • Throughout the mission and combat, Noburi employs mass chakra drain as necessary, so we can all keep using Summons/Shadow Clones
    • Approach the mine cautiously
    • Summon remaining Combat Summons and Shadow Clones before we get there
      • Ask Summons if they sense any threats
      • Have Candour scout out the land around the mine
      • Whenever possible, use Shadow Clones and Summons in combat
    • Clear the land around the mine, sealing the lumber inside storage scrolls as we go
      • If Candoru isn't challenged by this, use Summons/Shadow Clones to direct beasts towards him, specifically
    • Have Candoru do the exploration of the mine by himself, scouting ahead as much as possible.
      • Once Candoru gives up/the summons get impatient, send in the remaining summons to help.
        • We're trying to get Candoru to admit he needs help.
    • Once clear/summons need help, maintain vigilance (ninjas and summons both) and cautiously enter the mine.
  • If we enter combat alongside summons
    • Avoid explosive seals due to possibility of cave-in/friendly fire.
    • favor implosion seals and mist drain for AOE
      • If implosion seals won't work in confined areas, purifiers wrapped around a training tag can substitute.
  • Once inside, ensure that Heavenly Purifier and Tunneler's Friend seals are always equipped, and a line of substitution targets all the way out.
 
Added the part about bringing along mine engineers, specified "and combat" to Noburi's draining, and added your idea about AOE under the combat subsection. Specified the combat subsection as "should we enter combat alongside our summons," since we're trying to focus on shadow clones and combat summons for this mission.

Unclear if you're supposed to get advice from mine engineer, or that they come with you or what? Also, what the heck are we doing with purifier and training tag?

A purifier seal isn't designed to be ripped apart afaik.
 
Unclear if you're supposed to get advice from mine engineer, or that they come with you or what? Also, what the heck are we doing with purifier and training tag?

A purifier seal isn't designed to be ripped apart afaik.

I think the engineers are supposed to help keep us from blowing up an important wall by accident and I'm not sure about the purifer seal. @Lailoken?
 
A purifier seal isn't designed to be ripped apart afaik.
I think the engineers are supposed to help keep us from blowing up an important wall by accident and I'm not sure about the purifer seal. @Lailoken?

Since it's getting late and there's no response from Lailoken, I took out the part about the purifier seals and edited the bit about the mine engineers for clarification (basically we're trying to get data on how best to clear it out without collapsing it). Current plan is down below, if anyone has any suggestions for content or word choice, I'd love to hear from you! ^.^

[x] Action Plan: Dogs and Dungeon Crawling
Words: 280
  • Off Screen
    • Celebrate Noburi's birthday!
    • With Asuma's approval and input, arrange heavy escort mission for Koi experts ASAP
    • Complete Chakdar seal before departing.
    • Restock on seals, bringing an excess of every type
    • Consult experienced mine engineers to ensure mission conducted safe-ish-ly.
    • Suggest that Noburi wear his chakra-megalodon jacket (provided it gives a boost to stats)
  • Enable Dungeon Crawl, with Candoru scouting ahead along the way
  • Throughout the mission and combat,Noburi employs mass chakra drain as necessary, so we can all keep using Summons/Shadow Clones
    • Approach the mine cautiously
    • Summon remaining Combat Summons and Shadow Clones before we get there
      • Ask Summons if they sense any threats
      • Have Candour scout out the land around the mine
      • Whenever possible, use Shadow Clones and Summons in combat
    • Clear the land around the mine, sealing the lumber inside storage scrolls as we go
      • If Candoru isn't challenged by this, use Summons/Shadow Clones to direct beasts towards him, specifically
    • Have Candoru do the exploration of the mine by himself, scouting ahead as much as possible.
      • Once Candoru gives up/the summons get impatient, send in the remaining summons to help.
        • We're trying to get Candoru to admit he needs help.
    • Once clear/summons need help, maintain vigilance (ninjas and summons both) and cautiously enter the mine.
  • If we enter combat alongside summons
    • Avoid explosive seals due to possibility of cave-in/friendly fire.
    • favor implosion seals and mist drain for AOE
      • Unless mine engineers suggest otherwise
      • If implosion seals won't work in confined areas, purifiers wrapped around a training tag can substitute.
  • Once inside, ensure that Heavenly Purifier and Tunneler's Friend seals are always equipped, and a line of substitution targets all the way out.
 
Last edited:
Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Aug 22, 2020 at 1:21 AM, finished with 140 posts and 16 votes.


Voting is open until 12pm Eastern tomorrow.
 
@eaglejarl We are all hoping to have you write the iron mine update this Sunday, but our response the Minami is something I think we should do now timeline-wise (as begging off now doesn't seem reasonable). Would you be amenable to us skipping over our response to the Minami in favor of writing the iron mine, and having our response be done in a flashback (or similar)? @Velorien your thoughts?
I have no objection.

[x] Action Plan: Dogs and Dungeon Crawling
Words: 280
  • Off Screen
    • Celebrate Noburi's birthday!
    • With Asuma's approval and input, arrange heavy escort mission for Koi experts ASAP
    • Complete Chakdar seal before departing.
    • Restock on seals, bringing an excess of every type
    • Consult experienced mine engineers to ensure mission conducted safe-ish-ly.
    • Suggest that Noburi wear his chakra-megalodon jacket (provided it gives a boost to stats)
  • Enable Dungeon Crawl, with Candoru scouting ahead along the way
  • Throughout the mission and combat,Noburi employs mass chakra drain as necessary, so we can all keep using Summons/Shadow Clones
    • Approach the mine cautiously
    • Summon remaining Combat Summons and Shadow Clones before we get there
      • Ask Summons if they sense any threats
      • Have Candour scout out the land around the mine
      • Whenever possible, use Shadow Clones and Summons in combat
    • Clear the land around the mine, sealing the lumber inside storage scrolls as we go
      • If Candoru isn't challenged by this, use Summons/Shadow Clones to direct beasts towards him, specifically
    • Have Candoru do the exploration of the mine by himself, scouting ahead as much as possible.
      • Once Candoru gives up/the summons get impatient, send in the remaining summons to help.
        • We're trying to get Candoru to admit he needs help.
    • Once clear/summons need help, maintain vigilance (ninjas and summons both) and cautiously enter the mine.
  • If we enter combat alongside summons
    • Avoid explosive seals due to possibility of cave-in/friendly fire.
    • favor implosion seals and mist drain for AOE
      • Unless mine engineers suggest otherwise
  • Once inside, ensure that Heavenly Purifier and Tunneler's Friend seals are always equipped, and a line of substitution targets all the way out.
What's up with the white text? I missed it the first time around and thought the bullets were just being weird.

The jacket is not going to provide a stats boost. It's fashionable, that's it.

This is not all going to happen in one update. Birthdays are pretty much an update to themselves. My guess is that I would do the seal research, then the birthday, then stop.

Wood is really heavy. Oak, for example, is 730kg / m^3. A storage seal is limited by the more restrictive of size (max 1 m^3) and weight (100kg). You're not going to be putting literally dozens of acres of trees into storage scrolls.

Note that the size-large implosion seals actually cause more damage than a normal explosive tag.

I think you mean "Usamatsu's Glorious Life-Saving Purifier", right? I'm not aware of a "Heavenly Purifier". Regardless, it's fine to simply say 'Purifier'.

Not entirely happy with this but is the play we need to make. Suggestions are appreciated
[X] Action plan: A chain forged of gold
  • Continue the conversation with Minami.
    • Reassure her that the Hyuga aren't our friends, either.
      • Despite our beliefs in the WoF and everything we did for Leaf, Hiashi still considered us traitors.
      • Moreover, Hiashi schemed to take power from Jiraiya, culminating in an vote to take the Hokageship, which thankfully failed.
    • And yet...Jiraiya never responded in kind, either through the power of the Hokage or his own personal strength, despite his ability to do so and the threat to his family.
      • Why? For the greater good of Leaf. Jiraiya recognized that such actions, when Leaf was already reeling from its losses, would be catastrophic for Leaf's survival.
      • Invoke The Hokage (Was) My New Dad.
    • Once Leaf was safe, however...Jiraiya would certainly have acted. And so much the better, if Hiashi thought Jiraiya was too focused on Leaf to act against him.
      • This is what we want, as well. To create the proper moment to strike at an enemy while they expect you to be a non-threat to them.
    • Hypothetically...if our clan wanted to confront the Hyuga, we would have three paths to choose from:
      • The Kagome Path: Through explosives, death and destruction. Everything would burn.
        • Yet that would harm us and our allies, and weaken the Leaf.
      • The Mari Path: Smile and nod, take over the Hyuga's sources of revenue, Seventh Path or otherwise, and render them destitute.
        • This is what happened to the Kobayakawa Clan, by the Mori.
        • It's certainly effective, and would not harm Leaf as badly as the Kagome Path. Yet the Hyuga are still ninja of Leaf, and so harm would still be done.
      • My Path: Turn Neji into an ally by surrounding him with people he must work with and who can make him see your point of view. And eventually, the Hyuga heiress and her sister.
        • The ultimate goal? To make them not-Hyuga, something that retains what makes them strong but without the cruelty which makes them hated so.
        • Our team is already acting this plan, by having Keiko... 'train' Lady Hanabi.
        • Invoke Creative Idealist.
    • As the Minami Clan's Summoner, you are a keystone to making the Hyuga realize their foolishness, and we ask that you walk this path with us.
    • And if you don't? We will still work with you, and walk this path to change the Hyuga, and welcome you with open arms should you decide to join us.
    • Don't press Minami on an answer now, let her know we will wait for her decision.
Devoting the entire update to this conversation would be fine. Could even be fun, and certainly less frustrating than trying to split it too many ways.

The way this is written I take it to be what you want Hazō to say. I would probably put large parts of it in his mouth directly and paraphrase the rest. If that's not what you're looking for it would be good to specify.
 
What's up with the white text? I missed it the first time around and thought the bullets were just being weird.

It's from where I've altered the text to yellow and then tried to change it back to white (the default text color on my screen, since I usually have night mode on). Is there a way to remove the color formatting without just manually changing the color to white?

Edit: found it, fixed it, sorry about the confusion!

The jacket is not going to provide a stats boost. It's fashionable, that's it.

Removed the bit about the jacket. Wouldn't want to ruin a perfectly fashionable coat, Noburi's got more sense than that --especially if he thinks Yuno might like it.

My guess is that I would do the seal research, then the birthday, then stop.

So off screen the seal research and the birthday, remove everything else (with the birthday being a potential future flashback)? Got it.

You're not going to be putting literally dozens of acres of trees into storage scrolls.

Good point, I'd forgotten about the weight restrictions. I'll alter the wording to have it say something to the effect of "after combat, move lumber to a reasonably safe location for later recovery."

Note that the size-large implosion seals actually cause more damage than a normal explosive tag.

Noted and removed. For some reason, I was under the impression that they were less destructive. Probably just my brain being weird, sorry about missing that.

Regardless, it's fine to simply say 'Purifier'.
Aye aye, cap'n!

Updated plan, edited as per @eaglejarl's feedback!

[x] Action Plan: Dogs and Dungeon Crawling
Words: 212
  • Off Screen
    • Celebrate Noburi's birthday!
    • Complete Chakdar seal before departing.
  • Enable Dungeon Crawl, with Candoru scouting ahead along the way
  • Throughout the mission and combat, Noburi employs mass chakra drain as necessary, so we can all keep using Summons/Shadow Clones
    • Approach the mine cautiously
    • Summon remaining Combat Summons and Shadow Clones before we get there
      • Ask Summons if they sense any threats
      • Have Candour scout out the land around the mine
      • Whenever possible, use Shadow Clones and Summons in combat
    • Clear the land around the mine
      • If Candoru isn't challenged by this, use Summons/Shadow Clones to direct beasts towards him, specifically
    • Have Candoru do the exploration of the mine by himself, scouting ahead as much as possible.
      • Once Candoru gives up/the summons get impatient, send in the remaining summons to help.
        • We're trying to get Candoru to admit he needs help.
    • Once clear/summons need help, maintain vigilance (ninjas and summons both) and cautiously enter the mine.
  • If we enter combat alongside summons, avoid explosive seals due to possibility of cave-in/friendly fire.
  • Once inside, ensure that Purifier and Tunneler's Friend seals are always equipped, and a line of substitution targets all the way out.
  • After combat, move salvageable lumber to a reasonably secure location near the mine.
 
Last edited:
  • Reassure her that the Hyuga aren't our friends, either.
    • Despite our beliefs in the WoF and everything we did for Leaf, Hiashi still considered us traitors.
    • Moreover, Hiashi schemed to take power from Jiraiya, culminating in an vote to take the Hokageship, which thankfully failed.
  • And yet...Jiraiya never responded in kind, either through the power of the Hokage or his own personal strength, despite his ability to do so and the threat to his family.
    • Why? For the greater good of Leaf. Jiraiya recognized that such actions, when Leaf was already reeling from its losses, would be catastrophic for Leaf's survival.
    • Invoke The Hokage (Was) My New Dad.
  • Once Leaf was safe, however...Jiraiya would certainly have acted. And so much the better, if Hiashi thought Jiraiya was too focused on Leaf to act against him.
    • This is what we want, as well. To create the proper moment to strike at an enemy while they expect you to be a non-threat to them.

Jiraiya and the Minami did work together to undermine the Hyuuga:

"Here's how it is. The Hyūga have patron-client relationships with certain big-name craftsmen in the luxury goods sector. It's an important source of income for them, and a major source of economic influence.

"So naturally, we were going to steal it.

"Which is to say the Minami and I worked out a complicated scheme to hit the Hyūga clients with every tool in the box at once, and grab a massive share of the market from them before the Hyūga had time to get their headbands on. The Minami needed starting capital for that, and we couldn't afford to leave a paper trail for the Hyūga, so I gave them a huge sum of money as an unrecorded gift, which they'd repay out of the profits from their new investments.

"Then this happened. The Minami think I've betrayed them, pretty much for the reasons I just gave, and they've pulled out of the deal. As far as they're concerned, that gift is now blood money for their daughter getting killed through my and my clan's incompetence. And we're not getting it back.

Maybe that it's not as big as the Hokage vote, but it's still an attack on them. This is a Minami Jonin, she should be aware of this.

I not sure how to reword that, but Jiraiya did try to undermine the Hyuuga while Leaf was still in trouble, so the argument that Jirayia didn't act against them is just wrong.

And I am not sure why we are trying to roll against a Jonin.

Our team is already acting this plan, by having Keiko... 'train' Lady Hanabi.

She might be ok with this because it's the "good" influence, but she did just complain that she can't work with somebody who would use tactics like this:

"Exactly," Minami said with the air of a woman making an incontrovertible argument. "He is the kind of man who preys on innocent children in order to strike at his enemies. It doesn't matter if the tools he uses are wholesome or not.

This doesn't make Hazou look very good.

I would change the whole thing to the point that Hinata and Hanabi just lost both parents to Earth/Rock, both of them are likely more sympathetic to the Minami then the previous Hyuuga leadership.


@RandomOTP , Would you put the escort part back in? Because while this can easily be a Mist plot to play with us/Leaf, it's also possible that someone (Oro or not) is targeting Wakahisa, before the Chunnin exams most Countries didn't know how useful Wakahisa + Summoner was:

She shook her head. "No," she said. "Your elder son is a sealmaster in his own right and experienced at traps, so their fortress in the second round will be nigh-impregnable. Your daughter is a Summoner and your younger son used to be a Wakahisa. He can provide all the chakra she needs to keep her pangolins on the field through both rounds, and he will drain prisoners as they go in order to replenish his reserves."

Rasa cursed, A smirked, and Ōnoki frowned.

All three Kage didn't know until then, only Ren.

Maybe we can also sendAkane/Haru with the heavy escort and can get Hazous mom to help with whatever politics is going on.
 
Would you put the escort part back in?

Sure, no problem. Took out Noburi's birthday, since EJ said he wanted to minimize the off screen stuff and we'll probably end up doing birthday flashbacks for Hazou and Noburi anyway.

Maybe we can also sendAkane/Haru with the heavy escort and can get Hazous mom to help with whatever politics is going on.

Akane probably wouldn't be allowed to go, since she's helping Kagome decrypt Jiraiya's notes. Haru would be able to go, but I'm not sure that I'm confident in his ability to navigate the complex political landscape of a foreign nation.

[x] Action Plan: Dogs and Dungeon Crawling
Words: 223
  • Off Screen
    • With Asuma's approval and input, arrange heavy escort mission for new Koi expert ASAP
    • Complete Chakdar seal before departing.
  • Enable Dungeon Crawl, with Candoru scouting ahead along the way
  • Throughout the mission and combat,Noburi employs mass chakra drain as necessary, so we can all keep using Summons/Shadow Clones
    • Approach the mine cautiously
    • Summon remaining Combat Summons and Shadow Clones before we get there
      • Ask Summons if they sense any threats
      • Have Candour scout out the land around the mine
      • Whenever possible, use Shadow Clones and Summons in combat
    • Clear the land around the mine
      • If Candoru isn't challenged by this, use Summons/Shadow Clones to direct beasts towards him, specifically
    • Have Candoru do the exploration of the mine by himself, scouting ahead as much as possible.
      • Once Candoru gives up/the summons get impatient, send in the remaining summons to help.
        • We're trying to get Candoru to admit he needs help.
    • Once clear/summons need help, maintain vigilance (ninjas and summons both) and cautiously enter the mine.
  • If we enter combat alongside summons
    • Avoid explosive seals due to possibility of cave-in/friendly fire.
  • Once inside, ensure that Purifier and Tunneler's Friend seals are always equipped, and a line of substitution targets all the way out.
  • After combat, move salvageable lumber to a reasonably secure location near the mine.
 
Last edited:
[x] Action Plan: Dogs and Dungeon Crawling

Akane probably wouldn't be allowed to go, since she's helping Kagome decrypt Jiraiya's notes. Haru would be able to go, but I'm not sure that I'm confident in his ability to navigate the complex political landscape of a foreign nation.

He isn't supposed to, he is our Wataru, low profile enough to not matter (and get kidnapped/killed) but still an offical Goketsu to show we are still involved. And if this is some plot, Haru is unlikely to be really important for them, if they even know he exists.

Worst case scenario (besides death) is that he wastes his time.
 
Jiraiya and the Minami did work together to undermine the Hyuuga:

I think the crux of the argument is that while Hiashi used his position to undermine Jiraiya every chance he got, Jiraiya didn't use his own position as Hokage to crush the Hyuga, he concentrated first and foremost on the actual problem (Akatsuki) instead of losing himself in petty power plays. That is true, if Jiraiya didn't care about Leaf, or Naruto he could have ended the Hyuga in a miriad of ways(Ex. Rasengan Poisoning). The economic play was still within the rules and wouldn't have consequences on the Hyuga well-being, just their influence. Taking the Hokage-ship when you have no S-rank to replace the current Hokage(against the will of the previous Hokage) could be considered being power-hungry. (Especially when your endgame is objectively stupid)
 
I think the crux of the argument is that while Hiashi used his position to undermine Jiraiya every chance he got, Jiraiya didn't use his own position as Hokage to crush the Hyuga, he concentrated first and foremost on the actual problem (Akatsuki) instead of losing himself in petty power plays. That is true, if Jiraiya didn't care about Leaf, or Naruto he could have ended the Hyuga in a miriad of ways(Ex. Rasengan Poisoning). The economic play was still within the rules and wouldn't have consequences on the Hyuga well-being, just their influence. Taking the Hokage-ship when you have no S-rank to replace the current Hokage(against the will of the previous Hokage) could be considered being power-hungry. (Especially when your endgame is objectively stupid)

Just becaue it was a 'legal' move against them doesn't mean it wasn't a political/economical move against Hiashi and part of my point was that Minami should know that the deal happened and we don't know how she is interpreting the deal. If it was someone unrelated I wouldn't care.

I don't want Aika to think that Hazou is just ignoring what happened or that he is presenting a biased argument to win her favor.

Also:

"For." Minami, ever so coldly.

@Oneiros , The Minami clan head actually voted for Hiashi (in an non-binding agreement, but still). Maybe we should bring up that her clan head was at least theoretically willing to work with them? So she can just work with one specific Hyuuga for their benefit. (It was to spite Jiraiya, but she still wasted political capital, a clan head who only makes emotional decisions isn't a good head anyway)

Seriously, this girl is just insanely biased against the Hyuuga and probably hasn't even thought about the benefits she could get from the procupine's.
 
Last edited:
She might be ok with this because it's the "good" influence, but she did just complain that she can't work with somebody who would use tactics like this:

This doesn't make Hazou look very good.

I would change the whole thing to the point that Hinata and Hanabi just lost both parents to Earth/Rock, both of them are likely more sympathetic to the Minami then the previous Hyuuga leadership.
Hanabi isn't a bad point, but Hinata is our age and is the Hyuga Clan Head, regent or no; I don't think she's all that sympathetic.

Maybe...would this work? @Oneiros
  • We're already trying to prevent these views from spreading to the new generation, through Keiko's relationship with Lady Hanabi.
Just becaue it was a 'legal' move against them doesn't mean it wasn't a political/economical move against Hiashi and part of my point was that Minami should know that the deal happened and we don't know how she is interpreting the deal. If it was someone unrelated I wouldn't care.

I don't want Aika to think that Hazou is just ignoring what happened or that he is presenting a biased argument to win her favor.
There's a reason I said that Jiraiya never used his Hokage and personal strength against Hiashi. In other words, while Hiashi was willing to use the full force of his political alliances and economic strength against us (NB: things Hiashi has massive advantage in comparison to us), Jiraiya never used his own advantages (Hokage, personal strength).

Would "...Jiraiya never responded with his personal strength or Hokage-powers, despite...." be better? @Oneiros double ping :p
@Oneiros , The Minami clan head actually voted for Hiashi (in an non-binding agreement, but still). Maybe we should bring up that her clan head was at least theoretically willing to work with them? So she can just work with one specific Hyuuga for their benefit. (It was to spite Jiraiya, but she still wasted political capital, a clan head who only makes emotional decisions isn't a good head anyway)

Seriously, this girl is just insanely biased against the Hyuuga and probably hasn't even thought about the benefits she could get from the procupine's.
I don't think this will end well. The point isn't to make Aika change her mind about the Hyuga entirely, it's to convince her that the plan is something that the Minami should work with. Making Aika change her biases is gonna take a long time, whereas convincing her that accepting the deal...isn't. My expectations are that if we mention this directly, the cognitive dissonance + remembering how we got Nikko killed is gonna make her less amenable to accepting the deal, not more.
 
Hanabi isn't a bad point, but Hinata is our age and is the Hyuga Clan Head, regent or no; I don't think she's all that sympathetic.

Hinata is her own person, she never showed us any animosity just because we are 'Goketsu'. Noburi even mentioned that she came to a off screen gaming night:

"I'm afraid the head chef didn't, though. He was killed in the Collapse. I remember because the place is near the Hyūga estate and Hinata was upset about it at our latest games night."

and she also doesn't want to make a bad impression on us/others:

"What do you want, Gōketsu? Lady Hinata said I had to meet with you in order to 'maintain and improve clan relations' because apparently that's a thing that we care about now."

Maybe I am being overly optimistic of her opinion on the Minami, but a "Kill Kill Kill" attitute seems unlikely.

There's a reason I said that Jiraiya never used his Hokage and personal strength against Hiashi. In other words, while Hiashi was willing to use the full force of his political alliances and economic strength against us (NB: things Hiashi has massive advantage in comparison to us), Jiraiya never used his own advantages (Hokage, personal strength).

Jiraiya still spend a lot of money on the deal. Soft power still counts.

I don't think this will end well. The point isn't to make Aika change her mind about the Hyuga entirely, it's to convince her that the plan is something that the Minami should work with. Making Aika change her biases is gonna take a long time, whereas convincing her that accepting the deal...isn't. My expectations are that if we mention this directly, the cognitive dissonance + remembering how we got Nikko killed is gonna make her less amenable to accepting the deal, not more.

Fair enough, but I don't want to change her opinion, just highlight that their clan head supported Hyuuga for no actual gain. This deal acutally benefits them. @Oneiros maybe frame it like this?
 
This doesn't make Hazou look very good.

I would change the whole thing to the point that Hinata and Hanabi just lost both parents to Earth/Rock, both of them are likely more sympathetic to the Minami then the previous Hyuuga leadership.

This seems pretty reasonable
@Oneiros i too would suggest cutting/changing the Hanabi part. It doesn't adds something that important and it could piss off Aika.
 
We're already trying to prevent these views from spreading to the new generation, through Keiko's relationship with Lady Hanabi.
Changed to this
@Oneiros , The Minami clan head actually voted for Hiashi (in an non-binding agreement, but still). Maybe we should bring up that her clan head was at least theoretically willing to work with them? So she can just work with one specific Hyuuga for their benefit. (It was to spite Jiraiya, but she still wasted political capital, a clan head who only makes em
I also think this is a decent idea but would want to hear some more thoughts from people before I change it
 
I also think this is a decent idea but would want to hear some more thoughts from people before I change it

I don't think it's a good idea. First of all Aika and the Clan Head are two different people, second...pointing out their mistake from the past is probably just going to make Aika angry, or disappointed, not well-disposed against us. Third, it goes against the primary argument of "Hyuuga is bad and this is our plan to deal with them".
 
I also think this is a decent idea but would want to hear some more thoughts from people before I change it
I'm with @Lord Marshal on this, for the reasons I've stated above.

Side note regarding eaglejarl's thoughts: For me personally, I would prefer the plan to be something like what Hazou should be thinking, but to let him put it into words ICly (i.e., don't make him quote exactly what we say, but have him instead express the meaning behind those words). Not sure if this is clear or not, but I don't want a repeat of the killbox incident and we have <2hr left.
 
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