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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Rihaku said:
We could also have the jounin and chunin spam shadow clones (if they are good enough imitations to be indistinguishable by tracks) to make false tracks showing variously that we've left the swamp, we never entered the swamp and the swamp is an obvious fake to bait in any hunters, we've turned around and are hidden in some random mountain range, we've done X and Y other plausible evasive maneuver, etc. But more tracks = more Konoha risk, Konoha risk = we lack the info to evaluate.
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That seems like a good idea. It might be possible to make the fake tracks too hard to spot by anyone not as good as Zabuza? Depends on our Jounins specialties, i guess.
 
Why are we assuming Zabuza has to go straight through fire to get to the swamp? The thing's supposed to be in the "northwestern corner of Fire" and there's a minor array of small countries (Hot springs, Sound...) he could travel through and go around instead and since they're minor I doubt he would consider getting caught a serious issue.

For that matter, why should Zabuza be given priority? We alerted multiple Konoha ninjas that there's a reasonably large force invading their country...why wouldn't they send hunter-nin to kill whoever's there? The difference in power between Zabuza and us isn't that much different from hunter-nin and us; we'd be equally screwed.
 
faflec said:
Why are we assuming Zabuza has to go straight through fire to get to the swamp? The thing's supposed to be in the "northwestern corner of Fire" and there's a minor array of small countries (Hot springs, Sound...) he could travel through and go around instead and since they're minor I doubt he would consider getting caught a serious issue.
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That would require him to go through Sound or take an epic detour. A smaller country should also have greater concentration of forces per unit area of land, since area increases exponentially while Konoha likely does not have 4000x the ninja of a minor village.

For that matter, why should Zabuza be given priority? We alerted multiple Konoha ninjas that there's a reasonably large force invading their country...why wouldn't they send hunter-nin to kill whoever's there? The difference in power between Zabuza and us isn't that much different from hunter-nin and us; we'd be equally screwed.
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Because our jounin think Zabuza is coming. As for native Konoha nin, please read my big analysis post. It already contains our thoughts on the matter given our relative lack of information.
 
faflec said:
Why are we assuming Zabuza has to go straight through fire to get to the swamp? The thing's supposed to be in the "northwestern corner of Fire" and there's a minor array of small countries (Hot springs, Sound...) he could travel through and go around instead and since they're minor I doubt he would consider getting caught a serious issue.
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He is tracking us, so he is definitely going to take the same route here as we did.
 
Bloodline:Telepathic talking to animals. Allow the user to use social skills on animals with no penalty. The amount that the animal can understand is limited by the intelligence of the the animal. You can't control animals, but you can make deals with them.
 
fictionfan said:
Bloodline:Telepathic talking to animals. Allow the user to use social skills on animals with no penalty. The amount that the animal can understand is limited by the intelligence of the the animal. You can't control animals, but you can make deals with them.
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Bloodline discussion closed about 18 hours ago, unfortunately.
 
Yeah, kinda forgot about that one. Was more focused on the reasoning that Konoha would have a greater reason to investigate/get there.
 
I maintain that building an underground lair is both possible and a great response to Zabuza or anyone else tracking or following us. Even if they find the swamp, and even if they know we're in it, they'd need to expend considerable effort to find us. With good design and defenses, we can also make them exert considerable effort to destroy it. There's lots of design issues we'll need to solve, but they're surmountable engineering problems we as a player base have an advantage over average ninja to solve. See a portion of post #1034 for basic ideas of how. There are other considerations to be sure, but they're surmountable engineering concerns. For example, we can make subterranean caverns which will survive if someone collapsed the roof on us. I'll hold off on proposing precise methods for doing this until we get more knowledge of our environment, though I have plenty.

Basic/Intermediate: Make a bilge pump, put on bottom side of our cave system and pump water back into the swamp.
  1. Probably a centrifugal chakra powered bilge pump (a protrusion going from our cave into the swamp with turbines spinning at high speeds to force water from the bilge pump into the surrounding swamp)
  2. If QMs say no to chakra powered bilge pump, there are other physics exploits we can use, but the easiest ways will probably involve chakra usage (even if it's just to lift a heavy weight every hour or two).


Expansion (since we have a small cave and want a bigger one for a growing village's needs, or, you know, for training rooms)
  1. Dig, but be wary of what we may find (Dwarf Fortress anyone?)
  2. Make a drainage pit, which we put our bilge pump into.
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Safe room
  1. Make a hidden room near the bottom of our cave, exact nature of the room dependent on available jutsu, if no jutsu is available, then just a 1 foot by 3 foot log (as part of our flooring) with mud on top. Best case, make an airtight room with earth jutsu which we can go into then seal behind us (we'll need to figure out an air purification strategy if this is used).
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Remain hidden
  1. Basic: Don't build identifiably artificial external structures.
  2. Basic: remove viewable portion of most of our cave entrance (e.g. dig and displace rock until only a small portion of the entrance is visible)
  3. Intermediate: Change method of entrance to lair - er, hidden village (e.g. make a password activated seal which sinks users six feet into the ground).
  4. Intermediate: Assign an earth affinity gate keeper to perform above function (maybe powered by chakra battery?)
  5. Intermediate: Do the above with a crank operated elevator (we could probably do this the moment we have enough iron or other metal)
  6. Advanced: Teach all villagers ability to tunnel underground, have no exits (just air holes)
  7. Advanced: Make permanent genjutsu barrier over entrance.
  8. Note: Realistically, it's almost impossible to believe that a group of 27 could regularly return to the same location and have it remain hidden. Even in a swamp, they'd cause substantial amounts of environmental damage over time just by traveling which would add up and make it obvious a group is somewhere in the vicinity.
  9. Advanced: Make fake village entrance with lethal external defenses (so people think it's real), rigged with tons of explosives inside the cave which explode when someone gets 10 meters past the first corner (note this requires solving the wildlife problem first)
 
Rihaku said:
I think you misunderstand my read of 1.1 and the subsequent discussion we had.
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You're right, I did misunderstand what you were saying - I thought you were basically saying that you didn't think Zabuza would bother entering into Fire Country at all (due to cost/benefit analyses or whatnot).

I agree with your assessment that he'll likely follow us as black ops, and want to avoid Leaf patrols to avoid unpleasant questions/confrontations. My points earlier weren't so much that I thought he'd be travelling 100% in the clear, so much as that I didn't think his avoiding a few patrols would slow or deter him from following us very much, which if we disagree mostly sounds like it'll be on the scale of effects, rather than on what the effects themselves will be.
 
Jackercracks said:
The main options we were discussing at the time were Nagi, Noodle, Honey and Sky. Also, what the shit Kishimoto? Hidden Village in the Honey? The Land of Noodle?
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Actually only Noodles and Sky are canon locations, and even then, they were from the anime in a filler episodes and one of the movies, respectively. Kishimoto mostly worked on the manga and some character designs for the anime (particularly Sakura's parents from Road to Ninja, and the new character designs from chapter 700 and 700+1 through 700+10 that show up in The Last and Boruto) The maps in a couple of early posts in this thread (the one including Lands of Honey and Nagi Island) canon map for this quest is described on the original artist's page as being worked up for their fan-fiction.

When I'm after a map that is limited to (mostly) what is in the manga, I use the map on the Geography page of the Naruto wiki. It includes Hidden Stone Village from the Gaara Hiden novel which is the only location I know of not appearing in canon. Land of Iron isn't shown on the map and isn't given a location in the manga, but there is interesting speculation that unnamed area that the Mountain's Graveyard is in (Uchiha Madara's hideout) is the Land of Iron. Additionally, while the Land of Waves is shown as being to the south of the Land of Fire, with a question mark to denote it may be misplaced, I find the speculation that Land of Wave is founded on the ruins of the Land of Whirlpools compelling.

Edit: found the Wiki pages for Land of Honey and Nagi Island. *headdesk* Anime filler strikes again.

Edit #2: Changed my mention of the quest's canonical map to reflect @eaglejarl 's post below
 
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FYI, we are considering this map to be canon. Your swamp is in the northwest corner of Fire, roughly where that upside-down-Y-shaped river splits.

 
I didn't want it to affect the vote, but now that it's over... Something occurred to me about the discussion of the gender and size of the Legendary Sucker / Mountain Dew Ninja... I can understand the argument for making them a large person, but I think that there's an aesthetic and role-playing appeal to the character concept of a relatively diminutive character carrying around a largish barrel (or festooned with multiple smaller barrels --- I forgot if the character could split their storage up): they would fit right in with the non-mook ninja we see in Naruto, where almost everyone who has a name --- and especially those with weird bloodlines --- has very distinct attire and accessories. Is it just me?
 
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eaglejarl said:
FYI, we are considering this map to be canon. Your swamp is in the northwest corner of Fire, roughly where that upside-down-Y-shaped river splits.

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This strikes me as... somewhat odd. If we were meant to be subduing a foreign village, unless it was Hot Springs, we are... quite a ways away from home, and Leaf is significantly closer to our location than Mist is. I'm also very nervous about our proximity to Sound, if there's any chance that Orochimaru is out there. Do we know if that's the case? Hell, for all we know, this entire swamp could be his equivalent of a nuclear biological waste disposal site.

Longer-term, we may want to recommend relocating to the northern Iron peninsula just to give ourselves some geographical distance from other ninja villages.
 
Well in any case we really should see about how we can take advantage of the swamp. Ether by making deals with the intelligent creatures or by knowledge herbs to be able to make our own ninja drugs and food pills. There are things that we can do for the Croc's by virtue of us having hands.
 
Rihaku said:
Don't forget, Hazou.

Don't forget me.

Don't forget us, don't forget why we died. Don't- Oh, what am I asking?

I'm being silly. There's no need to ask this of you. The talent is even stronger in you than it is in me. We might almost have succeeded in you, or maybe your daughters and sons.

Listen to your mother, Zou-chan. You're a genin now, so be strong. Obey your sensei's orders, that man can usually be trusted. Try not to eat so many sweets, and remember to dress warmly when it gets cold. Be prepared to kill everyone you meet. One day, when you're strong, find a nice girl and treat her well. Mama won't forgive you if you're mean to her, okay? Take care of yourself. Don't worry if you seem selfish. It's selfish people who get what they want in this world.

Now, place the kunai like this, right above my heart. You know what follows. I want you to do it yourself. That way...

...You'll never forget.
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