Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Are you willing to give up ten points of Athletics/Alertness for it?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
For Rapport? Not really.
Remember, spying can save the world!
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
But really though. Information is very important.
But Forged in Fire! We'll have all the socials as column-skills anyway, and if we main Rapport/Empathy with FiF then we get +4 on both our main socials.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
For Deceit.
- Location
- Yes.
@MadScientist I recognize that it doesn't benefit us quite as much as a Rapport/Empathy/Resolve build (due to Forged in Fire not affecting both Empathy and Rapport), but would a Deceit/Resolve/<Empathy or Presence> build also be functional to cover all Social Defenses?
Deceit/Resolve/Empathy definitely does. I can't remember what the new rules said about Presence though. I think your current version is correct.
- Location
- Yes.
Presence can be used to defend against Rapport, which is the one thing Deceit and Resolve don't cover. So I dunno, it might be worth it in the short term to level (e.g., level Empathy and Resolve) in order to transition out from Deceit to Rapport, if we want to use Forged in Fire and stuff. I dunno.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Yes, we should get FiF regardless though. Because its very cheap and we plan on bumping Empathy up.
Deceit is too useful to throw away. It would be super inefficient to do so anyway.
I don't see the argument here. Deceit is at 24 and Rapport is at 10. It's more expensive to main both Rapport/Empathy than it is to main Empathy/Deceit. If you're being conservative on XP expenditure, then this is an extra:
(25*24 - 110)/2 = 245 XP
Spent on leveling social skills to get Rapport up to par with where we are now. Thats 3-4 months of extra XP expenditure just to get it to where Deceit is now. I don't see why this is necessary.
The +4 to both skills is great, but its not good enough to justify 245 XP as an expense. I would rather that go into Sealing or Chakra Reserves or something useful to accomplishing our goals directly. Empathy alone should be good enough.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Actually, many of these ideas are already here, or have been explicitly rejected. They didn't explicitly come from DoS but the parallels are certainly there:
These were supposed to be a thing, actually. Remember back when you first met Kagome and he produced a coil of rope "from somewhere" for you to use to power your beach plums to the ground? The original concept, the one that I had in mind when writing that, was that he pulled it out of a storage seal on his body. I was then told by someone who shall remain nameless that this was an abomination before the lord and such things could not be allowed into the game. :sadness:
(The person in question may have phrased it more courteously and with more logic behind it.)
This too was proposed by one of the QMs -- a particular smart, handsome, and talented one -- but eventually downvoted by the group.
This is more or less what we've done, yes?
I think this is not a thing you would want us to import. There isn't enough math or physics in MfD to let you do much of anything.
Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
This is actually canon. Minato does this.
Aodyssey
The glass will not protecc you
- Location
- Chaldea
I'd like to be involved with Fresh Eyes protocol. I don't see much point in this practise; Intent seems like a signature, the first resort of a Jounin's arsenal.
We'd be much better served by just learning how they factor into actual combat, then develop or learn a Seal/technique to counters it. Maybe if we look into Dispelling?
I really want to develop a Hazou Intent; it's shiny and fun, but it's not the best use of our time to my mind.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
What was the concern?
So if the ink isn't a focus for an exercise of will in focusing chakra into the right shape to achieve an effect, what is it doing exactly? Magical circuit diagram, creating a path for chakra to follow? Something else?
I like this one because it's a neat and tidy explanation for why things work the way they have been established to in MfD. I don't remember running into an explanation before, just being told that every sealmaster has their own style and that's just how it works, which is unsatisfying. It's important to know why.
Sunshine is a canon schitzotech Naruto, so they do have more to work with there. But there's a workaround. If seals depend on developing good mathematical physics, and more importantly with seals and chakra sensing giving all sorts of insights into how physics and biology works that weren't available on medieval Earth, it's quite reasonable that the ninja version of Issac Newton would have come a whole lot earlier. And that's not even counting uses of chakra that make people better at solving problems, like the Mori have. It's no big leap for people to figure out and develop early. Alternatively it could have been stuff figured out by whatever legendary geniuses figured out sealing, if you want to go that route.
I think the real speedbump in a Naruto setting is everyone's kneejerk secrecy about everything. The information could have been around for a thousand years but not been broadly shared. It may have had to be reinvented from scratch half a dozen times by different people, using what they could reverse engineer by looking at other people's seals and seeing how they worked to speed up the process. Different groups might have figured out the equations for different forces and how various physical or biological processes worked and not shared them, giving rise to different technique repertoires.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
The +4 to Rapport means that, purely with respect to the numbers game, it becomes more efficient than Deceit about when we hit Rapport 60. Sooner if we get more traumatized.
So yes, we will be putting more EXP into socials this way than if we went with Deceit instead of Rapport, but the numbers game is only a part of why I want a Rapport build. To list other reasons:
- Rapport simply fits Hazou's characterization better than Deceit does. A stat is at its most useful when it aligns with our characterization, because when the two come into conflict we use the stat less. See how Hazou, for as much as he does use his good Deceit, prefers to be honest and upfront when possible so doesn't use it as much as he otherwise would have.
- Making full use of Forged in Fire not only gives us extra XP (which as previously noted is not likely to be mechanically more efficient), but it also strengthens the narrative bonds around Forged in Fire, which is very closely related to Hazou's conviction in Uplift. The more strength Hazou has in his ideals, the more we can stand up to the challenges that spreading them will incur.
- Skill Column: whatever our primary social build ends up being, we'll want to level up some of our other social stats to 20 eventually if for no other reason than to support other skills at 30 and 40, and Deceit is a useful social stat to have. When you view Deceit as only four levels above where we'd normally have put it, the Forged in Fire bonuses quickly become net positive efficiency on Rapport.
- Timing: bringing Rapport up to where Deceit is will take months worth of XP, yes, but we aren't going to do that all at once. We aren't even going to do it soon, unless we run a Rapport drip along the Empathy drip which I frankly doubt will get the same kind of support. Optimizing our social build is very much a long-term project which means that it won't get in the way of immediate objectives and the skill column consideration is more relevant.
- Speaking of that, regardless of what we do with Deceit there's a lot of stuff more important than it right now, so Deceit or no Deceit we're not going to level it for a while longer. This is less a point about Rapport over Deceit and more an expansion of the point that this is a long-term consideration anyways.
To stress my core point here: I think the narrative implications of this decision are more important than the numbers game, and I feel like Rapport wins the narrative battle by a longshot.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Hehehehehehe
HEEEEHEHEHEHEEEEHEEHEEHEEE
That's a real movie, isn't it?
I think it got moved to 2 matches / day, so the whole thing is just over a week. @eaglejarl @Velorien check me?
Dammit, why isn't this a real vote???
YEEEESSSSSS
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TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Holy crap this is genius. If you can project one emotion why not others?
And I was just thinking about how I wished Hazou said to Keiko something to the effect that he very much hoped that some day in the far future she would be able to accept a reassuring hug without being bothered by it, and that he would like to give that hug.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Points to his own plan
I seriously doubt we will be able to manifest some sort of UPLIFT! intent aura overnight, but we can at least work on training Hazou's willpower a bit, right?
What's wrong with doing this with Jiraiya? Akane can do it, so why not us?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
[x] Action Plan: The Power of Love
I'd rather vote for Maddie's because we're not going to be able to do anything under Jiraiya's aura, but we might with Kei's. Jiraiya's just way too strong.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Yeah, OK, if I'm being serious you make a good point.
Suggestion: let's do both. They're not mutually exclusive. And Cariyaga makes a good point about Keiko's aura being better suited to initial training than Jiraiya's is, but we should definitely ask Jiraiya for tips.
Also, let's frikkin' ask Jiraiya about intelligence on the non-leaf competition we might be paired up with, unless we have already and I'm unaware.
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- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Action Plan: The Power of Love
Some (potentially useful!) goofiness before the big scary challenge in front of us.
Some (potentially useful!) goofiness before the big scary challenge in front of us.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Thats the point.
Akane can cling to "The Power of Youth." and manage meager resistance against Tsunade.
I see no reason we cant do the same with Jiraiya. Lets aim big first?
If this doesnt work out, I'm all for doing it with Keiko, but come on!! Lets not sell ourselves short here.
Sure!
(Gib votes plz)
Sure. I can add "Try the above with Keiko too."?
Unless you wanna take over. Which I'm totes coolsies with.