The question most at stake to me:

Is "jounin" a rank that any ninja might expect to hit eventually or is it an elite status that most people are incapable of ever achieving even if they live to 60+?

I think "jounin is elite ability that most are unable to hit" makes more sense and is better worldbuilding.
 
The question most at stake to me:

Is "jounin" a rank that any ninja might expect to hit eventually or is it an elite status that most people are incapable of ever achieving even if they live to 60+?

I think "jounin is elite ability that most are unable to hit" makes more sense and is better worldbuilding.
I think you have to be good to live past 20 or so anyway so isnt the question moot?
 
This makes the most sense to me.

I've been trying to imagine pure skill versus skill social combat IRL, and all I can come up with is a rap battle. That is, truth doesn't matter, nature of your argument doesn't matter, what you care about, what your goals and insecurities are, none of it matters.
I can see ways to do it. You can have bonuses for "the truth is on my side", "I know what my audience wants", "people know that I keep my promises", and so on.
 
The question most at stake to me:

Is "jounin" a rank that any ninja might expect to hit eventually or is it an elite status that most people are incapable of ever achieving even if they live to 60+?

I think "jounin is elite ability that most are unable to hit" makes more sense and is better worldbuilding.

The example mortality I've drawn up yields the following: about 1 of every 10 Genin in a graduation cohort make it to the lowest kind of Jonin, and 1 of 60 make it to a mid tier (30 year old) Jonin.

Yes, there will be some who make it to Jonin earlier or later than 23, and it is feasible that the early bloomers are balanced out by Old Genin in the tails.

Maybe some of the 'mortality' in the early years are low-capability/combat-disabled Genin/Chunin exiting the main ninja force in order to join clerical or other administrative roles (Effectively leaving the active duty roster)

Does that look reasonable at first glance?
 
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The example mortality I've drawn up yields the following: about 1 of every 10 Genin in a graduation cohort make it to the lowest kind of Jonin, and 1 of 60 make it to a mid tier (30 year old) Jonin.

Yes, there will be some who make it to Jonin earlier or later than 23, and it is feasible that the early bloomers are balanced out by Old Genin in the tails.

Maybe some of the 'mortality' in the early years are low-capability/combat-disabled Genin/Chunin exiting the main ninja force in order to join clerical or other administrative roles (Effectively leaving the active duty roster)

Does that look reasonable at first glance?

I just don't see ninja world being as lethal as you're assuming.
 
Honestly what bothers me is if the mortality rate is so high why was Minami's mission record so ordinary. She had barely a quarter of our experience in three more years. Also why did everyone freak out about her dying?
 
Honestly what bothers me is if the mortality rate is so high why was Minami's mission record so ordinary. She had barely a quarter of our experience in three more years. Also why did everyone freak out about her dying?
She was a clan heir right? She probably had some bullshit tier training or something.
 
I just don't see ninja world being as lethal as you're assuming.
The main control on that is replacement rate. What class size do you think is reasonable?

~200 implies zero death rate (to get 1000 by end of age 16), but then we need a huge spike in death/permanent disable for Chunin to keep their numbers reasonable.

Lowering the XP rate pushes the Chunin age to the right, which lowers the class size limit. I'm using 2.5 for Chunin (2 + some selection toward above average).
 
Honestly what bothers me is if the mortality rate is so high why was Minami's mission record so ordinary. She had barely a quarter of our experience in three more years. Also why did everyone freak out about her dying?
My spike in mortality for Chunin model them taking on B rank missions (and more C) that turn sour. Notably, Minami was assigned to seasoned Genin on a courier C-rank mission (right? Wasn't a B-rank, was it?)
In my model, a seasoned Genin squad (ready for Chunin exam) has ~0.08 chance of dying all year, so it would have been relatively unusual for Minami to die, especially when the Genin on her squad survived.
 
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My spike in mortality for Chunin model them taking on B rank missions (and more C) that turn sour. Notably, Minami was assigned to seasoned Genin on a courier C-rank mission (right? Wasn't a B-rank, was it?)
In my model, a seasoned Genin squad (ready for Chunin exam) has ~0.08 chance of dying all year, so it would have been relatively unusual for Minami to die, especially when the Genin on her squad survived.
It would almost certainly have been B or A rank: Contact with hostiles was almost certain.
 
My spike in mortality for Chunin model them taking on B rank missions (and more C) that turn sour. Notably, Minami was assigned to seasoned Genin on a courier C-rank mission (right? Wasn't a B-rank, was it?)
In my model, a seasoned Genin squad (ready for Chunin exam) has ~0.08 chance of dying all year, so it would have been relatively unusual for Minami to die, especially when the Genin on her squad survived.

It was a C-rank that got upgraded to B-rank due to unexpected blacklash from a B-rank mission.
 
My understanding is that it was relatively suspicious there wasnt a TPK, especially with Kagome (who is, ostensibly, a Jonin or Special Jonin at the very least in combat stats) on board.
 
@faflec Do you have the description of mission risk levels? I think @Radvic was the one that wrote it up, but it's not in informational, so...
Here's some general details about how missions work. We're trying to figure out the exact numbers but there's a total absence of QM spoons for the task, and we'd like to get the help of the economically-talented members of the hivemind. Your task: Assign plausible numbers for cost of living in Konoha and attendant rates for mission pay. Your reward: +10 XP and the gratitude of your fellow questers. Let us know what information you need that isn't already available.


More information coming soon, but here's a starter:


Missions are paid by civilians. They go to the Hokage Tower and talk to the desk chūnin to get them filed. There will be some paper shuffling, it will be assigned a rank, the Hokage will sign off (usually a rubber stamp), and then one or more ninja will be assigned when they come available. Mission priority is set by the Tower and missions may not happen immediately if the selected personnel are not available right away. Typically the delay will not be more than a couple of days.

There's a standard scale -- D,C,B, and A-ranks. The ranks are subjective and determined on the spot. Pay varies within levels; clients can choose to pay above the minimum charge in order to increase the priority of their mission. (Note: This isn't a democracy, so ranks and pay are ultimately at the discretion of the Hokage and he can order a mission to cost more if he wants.)

D-rank:
Max Duration: A few hours
Risk: None
Description: Inside Leaf, low economic value, typically given to students and fresh genin. Basically chores. Used as teambuilding exercises. The Tower may not accept such missions if they feel it's a waste of their people's time.
Typical pay: 20 ryo/hour/ninja

C-rank:
Max Duration: 2 days
Risk: Low
Description: Anything outside Leaf is at least C-rank. Typically short-duration, low-risk missions. Little expectation of contact with hostile ninja or significant numbers of chakra beasts. Examples: escort a caravan to another town near Leaf, kill a small group of bandits.
Typical pay:

B-rank:
Max Duration: 2 weeks
Risk: Moderate.
Description Like a C-rank but with a longer duration (2 weeks+) or higher risk. Contact with hostile ninja or chakra beasts is probable. Example: escort a caravan to a city outside of Fire.
Typical pay:

A-rank:
Max Duration: Any
Risk: High
Description: Contact with hostile ninja / chakra beasts certain. Example: search-and-destroy a swath of land to eliminate all threats.
Typical pay:
Not sure if this is what you're looking for?
 
My understanding is that it was relatively suspicious there wasnt a TPK, especially with Kagome (who is, ostensibly, a Jonin or Special Jonin at the very least in combat stats) on board.
Also, I believe it was something along the lines of the Minami being really angry that she died on a mission Jiraiya personally requested, and simply the fact that they could play it up to demand exorbitant concessions from someone who really couldn't afford to lose their support.
 
Also, I believe it was something along the lines of the Minami being really angry that she died on a mission Jiraiya personally requested, and simply the fact that they could play it up to demand exorbitant concessions from someone who really couldn't afford to lose their support.
Also, it was *supposed* to be a busy-work cakewalk mission.

Until the Sunset Racer :(
 
On the other other hand, we were a bunch of Genin with a Chunin team leader and an accompanying member of indeterminate rank and sanity, and the mission was classified and handed to us directly from the Hokage.

If the only reasons for qualifying it as A/B are location(s) and time, and its being funded by the village coffers, I could see it being labeled as a long term C-rank by a reasonable Hokage, especially to not raise suspicions. The canon mission to Wave both left Fire and lasted longer than a week, and was supposed to be a C rank.

I've always thought that Genin were restricted to D/C rank, Chunin could generally take D/C/B, and Jonin could generally take D/C/B/A, and S-rank are negotiated for specific missions and ninja.

If a bunch of Genin were sent on an A/B rank mission with a Chunin leader, there's plenty of reason to be upset even if nothing actually went wrong.
 
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