I agree, we should level Sealing to 60.
I dont think having our personal sealing stat higher than 30 is immediately beneficial? If theres anything we need to do that requires it that high we would be better off throwing it at Jiraiya and Kagome.
 
I dont think having our personal sealing stat higher than 30 is immediately beneficial? If theres anything we need to do that requires it that high we would be better off throwing it at Jiraiya and Kagome.
Kagome maybe, Jiraiya won't be available for our personal sealing needs until we Edo Tensei him.
 
Any idea by what you hope you achieve at level 30 and what difficult seals would be like?
IIRC Skywalkers are somewhere around there with Kagomes notes?

I dont particularly think we need to immediately level Sealing up AT ALL for the time being. Theres larger holes we need to fill in (Social, Alertness, Chakra Reserves, )
 
Any idea by what you hope you achieve at level 30 and what difficult seals would be like?
We'd probably be able to infuse Skywalkers, which is a hefty plus. Our prestige claim on 'came up with Skywalkers' gets seriously undermined by how we can't even make them, plus we get to be a solid source of them for Leaf because you can go through a lot of them on cross-country stealth missions and not only are sealmasters that good really rare but Leaf also has to keep this the toppest of secrets and we already know so there isn't any more OPSEC risk than there already is (which, to be fair, we've been pretty good about)
 
Quoting the movable forcewall proposal for arguments against why it should be pursued before returning to Mist -- my own below. Assuming competent seal masters haven't found a way to make them, forcewall seal alignment difficulty must fall somewhere between 'possible to do in ~1 minute in most field conditions' and 'too precise for deformation from practical weight, 3m long, rigid wood/metal poles', or there's something we haven't considered. There's some leeway in the practical weight department and Hazou has whatever 21st century we can confer to him, but there're also magnets! Or magnet seals, as they may be.

The problem with aligning forcewall seals without a pole by clamping them to the forcewall itself after formation is uneven forces resulting in a perpetual acceleration in some direction. This is solved with clamps that exert equal force, aka magnets/sticky seals. It's reasonable for forcewall knowing sealmasters to not have had access to magnets strong enough not to slip, but maybe that's something that the hokage could reasonably requisition? There's also the route of 'extra rigidity inducing seals'.
  • Extremely dangerous if it spreads to enemies, allowing unmanned, high speed, high durability projectiles to be launched from a distance.
  • No testing done so many of our assumptions may be wrong.
    • One example, forcewall strength may be inversely related to speed, neatly quashes many use cases without ruling out what we've seen.
  • Despite their description, I find it likely force walls are weaker than 5SB in terms of durability. Primary reason, when Kagome brought both seals up he mentioned nothing he'd encountered was strong enough to overcome 5SB, contrasting forcewalls by omission.
Most of the proposed uses aren't weapons, though.
 
According to the wiki, Birthdays:

Neji: July 3
Lee: November 27
Tenten: March 9

Shikamaru: September 22
Ino: September 23
Choji: May 1

Sakura: March 28

So we have 6~ days to come up with something for Lee. Maybe buddy up with Akane for a present? Dress up in a YOUTHSUIT?
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail How does sustain cost [on a jutsu] work? I can't seem to find anything under the new ruleset.

Jutsu do not have a sustain cost unless specifically stated in the description

(That one's been hanging around for a while. The QMs finally managed to shake loose some time, so we got on video chat for 4 hours yesterday to burn through a lot of necessary worldbuilding. We didn't manage to get to the bulk of the backlog of questions, but you'll see more things being answered in the update.)
 
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Jutsu do not have a sustain cost unless specifically stated in the description

(That one's been hanging around for a while. The QMs finally managed to shake loose some time, so we got on video chat for 4 hours yesterday to burn through a lot of necessary worldbuilding. We didn't manage to get to the bulk of the backlog of questions, but you'll see more things being answered in the update.)
So, um...what's the point of having duration for a jutsu? For example, HLaM has a one-minute duration, but if sustain cost is zero then there wouldn't be a point to having it being of one-minute duration? Unless that duration is meant to indicate when the user would have to re-cast the jutsu, thereby burning a Standard Action??
 
So, um...what's the point of having duration for a jutsu? For example, HLaM has a one-minute duration, but if sustain cost is zero then there wouldn't be a point to having it being of one-minute duration? Unless that duration is meant to indicate when the user would have to re-cast the jutsu, thereby burning a Standard Action??
Isn't this exactly it though? From a mechanics perspective. I don't think most jutsu require the equivalent of a concentration check to maintain either, so it makes sense that it has a set duration and isn't like "actively maintained" by the caster or something along those lines.

Likewise, having duration makes more sense if the jutsu does a more esoteric effect thats meant to last a set period of time without you doing anything about it.

"Buzzing Wind Ward" that makes anything outside your range of effect unintelligible noise, or something.
 
So, um...what's the point of having duration for a jutsu? For example, HLaM has a one-minute duration, but if sustain cost is zero then there wouldn't be a point to having it being of one-minute duration? Unless that duration is meant to indicate when the user would have to re-cast the jutsu, thereby burning a Standard Action??
An action and a bunch more chakra.
 
Wha...oh. Oh, this is awkward.

When I asked if jutsu had sustain costs, what I meant to ask was if there was a discount in chakra cost to keep the jutsu active past its duration limit. Which in hindsight I should have worded better, my fault.
Not by default, and none that we've discussed or statted up have such a discount that I can recall - any that do have it will be specifically noted, should they come up.
 
I seem to have lost some of my previous analyses, so let's try this again a little briefer.
Suicide Seal: Will kill the user if they are not from the Goketsu clan. They are indistinguishable from other seals.
Not as powerful as it seems; only really useful for killing people who trust us or for poisoning sealing supplies. The latter probably won't work very well, and an explosion seal with a "missing" timer should be at least as effective.
Silhouette Seal

This seal was created by an enterprising Nara in pursuit of a seal that would produce proper shadows for use with their clan techniques. Though it didn't work for that, the Nara recognized the potential of this seal, and with a touch more refinement, produced this.

The Silhouette Seal produces a vaguely-human-shaped shadow caricature. Any interaction with the shadow itself disperses the illusion, as does a sufficiently strong gust of wind. It may be used to give the impression of there being someone there in combination with props, or behind a curtain or paper wall, similar to the Clone technique but without requiring the user's focus.

It lasts thirty minutes, at which point if one is listening closely one can hear a faint keening before both it and its seal vanishes with no trace. This effect has never been successfully replicated in another seal.
We should never have access to this seal :/. Doesn't seem very useful if we don't have a use for shadows, and it doesn't seem like an amazing way to set shadows up either. Storage seals are a lot more flexible.
Double Explosion Seal: It explodes in the same way as a normal explosive seal, but the seal itself is shielded from the blast, allowing it to explode again a few seconds later. Mechanically, it is used like a regular explosive seal but also gives the user next round a tag against an enemy within the same zone as the seal.

*Note, this expands outwards into triple or quadruple explosion seal if you really want to stretch it, potentially letting you set up a zone for free tags the entire fight. Perfect as a Kagome pet project.
This would be better IMO if after the first timed explosion and a short delay (~0.5s) it became a proximity-detecting mine. This would be extremely useful for Keiko to use as field control.

Seems very hard to abuse, since it's similar to throwing two normal seals simultaneously.

With that change, I love the idea, 10/10. With a mere double explosion, it seems a little hard to use effectively.
Three Seal Paralytic

A three-element seal mostly used in T&I to keep prisoners secure. All three elements are placed on the same plane. A (single) person within is unable to move. The seal keys in on a ninja-sized (greater than approximately 20 chakra) chakra signature to perform its effect.

There are no rumors about a variant of this seal that serves as a trap, combining the effects of Lesser Barrier Formation and Three Seal Paralytic.

The basis for this seal was Five Seal Barrier.
Quick note for @Vecht: "placed on the same plane" is not a tautology, because seals aren't point objects.

Since it only works on people, this seems pretty hard to abuse. The setup constraints make the combat effectiveness limited, but it could be useful for trapping areas.

Good idea, probably not one we need to be taught.
Greater Barrier Formation

A four-element tripwire seal with effects similar to Lesser Barrier Formation, although instead of triggering on a seal crossing the line, it triggers upon a seal crossing the plane that the four seals make. The seals must be placed to create a square or rectangle between them. The seals, unlike Lesser barrier Formation, do not need to be facing each other (and, indeed, cannot be). It may trigger up to four seals
I like it. Seems hard to abuse, but a useful upgrade.
Greatest Barrier Formation

An eight-element tripwire seal with effect similar to Greater Barrier Formation, but instead of triggering based on movement along a plane, it triggers based on movement within the three-dimensional confines the seals create. It may trigger up to eight seals.
Seems like you should just use perpendicular overlapping Greater Barrier Formations. Seems a little pointless.
Spurious Barrier Formation

A sixteen-element tripwire seal with effects somehow unlike that of the Greatest, Greater, or Lesser Barrier Formations. Sixteen seals are placed spatially and temporally at the points that would nominally define a regular tesseract, using the Sugimoto metric. It is of dubious use, only barely managing to be classified as a "seal" rather than a "sealing failure." Instead of triggering based on movement, it is unknown what event triggers the seal. This system may trigger up to sixteen seals, and effectively acts as a random timer.
Genius. By which I mean useless.

Unless it allows for time-travel. Then it's broken.
Proposed seal: anything, anything at all which might in any way interfere with stupid stinker cheating bloodline tracking magic.
:thonk:
 
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Empathy is definitely mid-tier (needed for social defence coverage), and in Hazou's case, arguably higher priority than Deceit (because of Forged in Fire).

Social works like this:

NEEDED
  • Resolve (only thing that blocks Intimidation)
  • Empathy (only thing that blocks Rapport)
  • EITHER Deceit OR Rapport (to block Empathy)
DUMP
  • Presence (only blocks itself, also blocked by Resolve)
  • Intimidation (doesn't block anything)
  • EITHER Deceit OR Rapport (you have the other one so taking both is redundant)
@MadScientist have your thoughts on the above changed much at all?

Spurious Barrier Formation

A sixteen-element tripwire seal with effects somehow unlike that of the Greatest, Greater, or Lesser Barrier Formations. Sixteen seals are placed spatially and temporally at the points that would nominally define a regular tesseract, using the Sugimoto metric. It is of dubious use, only barely managing to be classified as a "seal" rather than a "sealing failure." Instead of triggering based on movement, it is unknown what event triggers the seal. This system may trigger up to sixteen seals, and effectively acts as a random timer.
Lmao. I honestly looked up "Sugimoto metric" because I was sure you were talking about some weird topological space. Clearly I need to do less math.
 
Yes but your thoughts on social combat for Hazou is that we should optimize Defensive ones over Offensive ones mostly, right?

I don't see how you could really "optimise for offense" in a way that wouldn't cripple you. All the attacks have at least one stat that blocks them, and a sensible ninja will have taken stats that block all forms of attack, so there's no point in picking one attack stat over another.

The best you could do in that regard is something similar to what Kei does, and minmax Intimidation to the detriment of all other stats, pushing it as high as possible and piling on TYS bonus, in the hopes that you get it high enough to reliably pierce the Resolve of your opponents. But doing that leaves you completely defenceless to all kinds of social attacks. Frankly, Kei is really vulerable, even though she didn't go to that extreme, and has 20s Resolve and Presence as well as Intimidation. If you're choosing multiple stats then they need to be Empathy, Resolve, Rapport/Deceit. If you're not choosing multiple stats, then you need to minmax Intimidation and dump everything else, and also always be on the offensive because if you don't take out your opponents in the first pass they will destroy you in their counterattack. The three-stat build is much safer, and is still viable offensively.

Alternatively, you could take Forged in Fire, and minmax either Empathy or Rapport, which would protect you from Rapport and Deceit or Rapport and Empathy, respectively. This is more viable than the pure Intimidation build, but still leaves you vulnerable to around half the attacking stats, again forcing you into a glass cannon role. I seriously advise against anything but the three-stat builds.
 
I don't see how you could really "optimise for offense" in a way that wouldn't cripple you. All the attacks have at least one stat that blocks them, and a sensible ninja will have taken stats that block all forms of attack, so there's no point in picking one attack stat over another.

The best you could do in that regard is something similar to what Kei does, and minmax Intimidation to the detriment of all other stats, pushing it as high as possible and piling on TYS bonus, in the hopes that you get it high enough to reliably pierce the Resolve of your opponents. But doing that leaves you completely defenceless to all kinds of social attacks. Frankly, Kei is really vulerable, even though she didn't go to that extreme, and has 20s Resolve and Presence as well as Intimidation. If you're choosing multiple stats then they need to be Empathy, Resolve, Rapport/Deceit. If you're not choosing multiple stats, then you need to minmax Intimidation and dump everything else, and also always be on the offensive because if you don't take out your opponents in the first pass they will destroy you in their counterattack. The three-stat build is much safer, and is still viable offensively.

Alternatively, you could take Forged in Fire, and minmax either Empathy or Rapport, which would protect you from Rapport and Deceit or Rapport and Empathy, respectively. This is more viable than the pure Intimidation build, but still leaves you vulnerable to around half the attacking stats, again forcing you into a glass cannon role. I seriously advise against anything but the three-stat builds.
Ah, yes. I see your logic there now. Gotcha.
 
That said, I see no easy way to fix Kei at this stage. We should probably just have her minmax Intimidation from now on, and never let her do social combat solo.
 
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