Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
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This means war.
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- USA
You know, I've never understood the "tongue is too big/can't find a comfortable place in your mouth" one, on that note. Others include manually blinking/swallowing
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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Wait, people don't manually swallow?
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OH SHIT HE'S BEEN INFECTED BY SCP-29Ω QUARANTINE HIM GO GO GO
So I figure I go through the trope page for Stock Shonen Hero and see how Hazō qualifies.
Hazō doesn't really show sheer force of will and he's not exactly book dumb even if instructors think he's bottom tier ninja material. While Hazō does have a gift(the hivemind), he still has to work hard to get what he wanted.
However, he doesn't do training from hell, since everyone in the setting go through that.
It's true that Team Uplift took risk to makes allies and friends, it doesn't really show that strongly. Never giving up and finding a way to beat you felt in-congruent with the setting. Team Uplift until the tournament needs to win every fight they got themselves into, or at least survive the encounter.
Hazō isn't certainly oblivious to love and even briefly got a girlfriend. He isn't a big eater, at least compared to his teammates.
Hazō doesn't really show sheer force of will and he's not exactly book dumb even if instructors think he's bottom tier ninja material. While Hazō does have a gift(the hivemind), he still has to work hard to get what he wanted.
However, he doesn't do training from hell, since everyone in the setting go through that.
It's true that Team Uplift took risk to makes allies and friends, it doesn't really show that strongly. Never giving up and finding a way to beat you felt in-congruent with the setting. Team Uplift until the tournament needs to win every fight they got themselves into, or at least survive the encounter.
Hazō isn't certainly oblivious to love and even briefly got a girlfriend. He isn't a big eater, at least compared to his teammates.
zap lunch
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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Now, now, you don't want to do anything you can't take back. We could be at peace, but if not, I wonder how many innocents in this thread I could expose to similar infohazards...
zap lunch
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Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
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- Snarksville, Snarkland
Though that's an interesting point.
An action plan that does nothing but "training from hell" really should earn more xp than one that does other stuff, because you're sacrificing all the opportunity cost of running projects/researching seals/etc. in return for 'getting gud'.
Ok, having thought on it, I'm going to take my guess on what Jiraiya has realized, and why. My guess is that it's the "Keiko might turn to stone" thing, or something similar, due to the nature chakra. Keiko is risking death without knowing it, due to having as many Pangolins out as she does, for as long as she does. Now, why is this? Because the our Rampage Strategy is too powerful.
Think about it. Mist no doubt has a few Summon Scrolls. I can't imagine any of the major villages not having any. Teaming up a Wakahisa with a Summoner in order to enable the Summoner to get several summons at once and sustain it as they rampage through the battlefield and capture enemies is a pretty obvious strategy. And it's an exceedingly powerful one. Like, really, really powerful. Mist should have multiple summoners, and definitely multiple Wakahisa... and yet they do not rule the world. The world shouldn't look like it does if the strategy was valid.
Think about it. If Mist had employed this strategy so that they could have their Summoner/Wakahisa teams summon several jounin level summons upon battlefields during the ninja wars, then they would likely have stomped everyone who dared to stand in their way. And all the other villages would know about the combo as well, because it would be utterly terrifying. But they don't. Clearly there's got to be some limitation here, since Mist isn't spamming mass amounts of summons during wars and stomping everyone. And if there wasn't a limitation, then the QMs couldn't have the world be in its current state, so one must be imposed, and nature chakra related issues fit the bill. I wouldn't be surprised if the QMs only realized this recently, hence this unexpected update coming out of nowhere.
If I had to guess though, Keiko will be fine. Jiraiya arrives after we've already stomped our opposition, and finds us optimizing our fortress strategy for round two with Shikamaru around his campfire, and Keiko has already dismissed most of her Pangolins. Maybe she's slightly ill, having lucked out and only gotten some mild consequences that'll go away after she gets some rest. He informs us of the risk of using too many Pangolins for too long, then leaves, relieved that his not thinking about the problem didn't kill his adopted daughter.
Henceforth we don't do the rampage strategy again unless absolutely desperate, and we're restricted to how many Pangolins we can keep active for more than an hour going forward. Summoning many is fine for an hour, just not for significantly longer than that, at least until Keiko can learn Pangolin Sage Mode (and isn't that a terrifying prospect), because we risk petrification or some other grisly death.
Think about it. Mist no doubt has a few Summon Scrolls. I can't imagine any of the major villages not having any. Teaming up a Wakahisa with a Summoner in order to enable the Summoner to get several summons at once and sustain it as they rampage through the battlefield and capture enemies is a pretty obvious strategy. And it's an exceedingly powerful one. Like, really, really powerful. Mist should have multiple summoners, and definitely multiple Wakahisa... and yet they do not rule the world. The world shouldn't look like it does if the strategy was valid.
Think about it. If Mist had employed this strategy so that they could have their Summoner/Wakahisa teams summon several jounin level summons upon battlefields during the ninja wars, then they would likely have stomped everyone who dared to stand in their way. And all the other villages would know about the combo as well, because it would be utterly terrifying. But they don't. Clearly there's got to be some limitation here, since Mist isn't spamming mass amounts of summons during wars and stomping everyone. And if there wasn't a limitation, then the QMs couldn't have the world be in its current state, so one must be imposed, and nature chakra related issues fit the bill. I wouldn't be surprised if the QMs only realized this recently, hence this unexpected update coming out of nowhere.
If I had to guess though, Keiko will be fine. Jiraiya arrives after we've already stomped our opposition, and finds us optimizing our fortress strategy for round two with Shikamaru around his campfire, and Keiko has already dismissed most of her Pangolins. Maybe she's slightly ill, having lucked out and only gotten some mild consequences that'll go away after she gets some rest. He informs us of the risk of using too many Pangolins for too long, then leaves, relieved that his not thinking about the problem didn't kill his adopted daughter.
Henceforth we don't do the rampage strategy again unless absolutely desperate, and we're restricted to how many Pangolins we can keep active for more than an hour going forward. Summoning many is fine for an hour, just not for significantly longer than that, at least until Keiko can learn Pangolin Sage Mode (and isn't that a terrifying prospect), because we risk petrification or some other grisly death.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
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- Northeast Ohio, United States
Can someone please explain the nature chakra petrification and the misfiring jutsu thing to me, and how those relate to draining chakra and summoning?
What exactly is the danger we're thinking is coming from draining chakra from people and using that to summon pangolins?
What exactly is the danger we're thinking is coming from draining chakra from people and using that to summon pangolins?
If you're not careful with nature chakra, it turns you into stone.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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@Enjou To my knowledge MIst has no summon scrolls.
e:
e:
In canon Naruto, nature chakra is an extra-powerful chakra that can be gotten from the environment. Pangolin have been stated in-MfD to use it. In canon, it turns untrained that use it to stone. The thought is that enemy wakahisa draining from Pangolin could turn them or those that drink their chakra to stone.
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Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
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The previous Pangolin scroll owner guy?
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
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Ahhhhh. Thank you, that's a big help.
*check canon wiki*
Ok, this shouldn't be "nature chakra", but rather Natural Energy. If your body channels too much of it without it being in balance with your other chakra, you petrify.
What about him? He wasn't part of Mist, I don't believe.
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Also, QMs have stressed multiple times that the Kani-Kuni-Koni-Whatever Clan are NOT true summoners, they just use chakra crab-structs. Dad-a-chum.
- Location
- Yes.
I'm leery on the "Keiko gets stoned from Summoning overuse" because of the reactions of the other Kages. Yes, technically none of them were canonically Summoners, but I don't see how, in a rational universe, you become a Kage without at least knowing the risk of Summoning overuse. Yet none of them thought of the rampage strategy as risking our lives.
@eaglejarl, @Velorien, @OliWhail - Do we know if Mist possesses any summoning scrolls or not? @faflec could also probably use his mystic powers of recall to find a reference, if one exists.
Honestly would seem odd if a major power didn't have one, especially given how many Leaf seems to have. I know in canon that Kisame's originally from Mist, and he could summon Sharks (and he could have taken that with him when he went missing), and that the Second Mizukage could summon a Giant Clam. (possessing mostly aquatic summons might be a limiting factor to Mist)
It's more that this is a unique case - Summoners generally can't sustain large numbers of summons because of the expense of summoning them in the first place, with the hourly cost added on after that. They wouldn't likely have any cause to know the details of what would happen if you had a Summoner able to refill their chakra with Wakahisa assistance.
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First of all, the QMs have nixed a lot of canon summon scrolls and made the ones that do exist in to a really big deal. I agree that expecting each major village to have at least one is a good bet, but expecting Mist to have 'multiple' summoners sounds dubious to me. We only have one confirmed Leaf summoner before Keiko joined up, after all.
Second, Summon clans can only spare so many of their elites for human path affairs. I still have a hard time really grasping what the summon clans get out of the situation that makes catering to their summoners so appealing (our relationship with the Pangolins being an exception because Skytowers), but whatever it is it can't be worth leaving half their entire military on standby.
Third, Mist doesn't have a monopoly on big chakra. Even assuming they're the only village with reliable chakra transfers in decent quantity, Jinchuuriki are still walking talking nigh-bottomless wells of chakra reserves. If getting half your summon clan on standby was a realistic prospect, we'd see every village with some hack for lotsa chakra, including not just the Wakahisa but every Jinchuuriki and whatever tricks exist in the other villages we haven't seen much of, spamming tons of summons all over the place forever.
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