Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes.
Separately, this seems like a good thing to turn over to the thread. Supposing, purely hypothetically, that a grue were to eat the Transformation Technique and everyone's memories of it, what issues would need to be addressed (e.g. confused infiltrators)? How would you suggest addressing them?
They need a new technique that work just as well as henge but less likely to be a headache.
Having memories eaten would require... a lot of issues to be addressed. I would just avoid that route.
I'd just go with something like having the Watchers address the kages and whatnot, or some other means of ensuring a war isn't started.
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
They would remember using physical disguises in the past but only have vague memories of it. When they try to reproduce it they notice they are worse at fooling people than before but chalk it up as being out of practice or just the way the world works and always has worked.
Feats of truly legendary uses of henge will become just that: legends.
E:
An entity that can just remove any ninja techniques nilly-willy is not an entity I would want to have around as a Kage. At best, they might be intimated enough to not start anything (doubtful) and at worst they would band together to eliminate the Watchers which - if they should win - would mean the world would eventually end due to stupid people trying stupid sealing ideas.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
See also: genjutsu
- Location
- uk
Huh, that was not my reading of the rules at all, but it's good to have that clarified!
It explicitly says that the points you gain for identifying ninjas / secret roles are zero-sum, but then says you gain *addiitonal* points for village, team, and/or name, without saying they lose the same amount.
@OliWhail can we get that post edited to also say 'and they lose the same amount' for the extra info? It's threadmarked so people go back to it for rules clarifications often.
- Location
- Yes.
I go to sleep and ALL THIS HAPPENS TIME TO CATCH UP
Done.
Ah, yes. That was what I'd meant; I'll cut it.
More or less correct; I'd hoped that we'd also be able to enlist their aid as a part of that trade if appropriate. Will edit to make clearer.
Hm. Sakura can fake a Water Clone via Genjutsu, can she convince a victim that the proctor falsely dispelled their Henge? I'll add that in pending confirmation.
Yup, I'm cutting that right out.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
There is some quantity of ninja performing long-term infiltration missions where they at least frequently use henge. The best of these will keep their cover through a hodgepodge of other techniques, confused at the inexplicably increased difficulty of the mission but willing to continue on. The worst of these immediately blow their cover as they suddenly find they don't have the tools for the job. The middling ones likely recognize their inability to complete the mission (when they left they thought they could do it, which is just baffling) and extract themselves before they can mess things up.
Regardless, there will be a wave of spies being discovered, for seemingly no reason other than they all made rookie mistakes like not even knowing how to disguise themselves, all at the same time. Diplomatic overtures of "I can't believe you'd spy on me!?!" and such get traded with various effects on diplomatic relations. Meanwhile, everyone is freaking out a little that a good chunk of their spies suddenly aren't really spies anymore. Conspiracy nuts like Kagome immediately throw out crazy explanations like Lupchanzen and while they're still not believed there's really no explanation to this situation that's comforting.
Village logicians get swamped with the wave of discovered spies and how the hog's share of their infiltration missions just failed all at once. Not only do they have to manage the fallout of these missions (After all, who could expect dozens of simultaneous mission failures on the same day?) but they have to deal with these 'infiltration' ninja that are no longer suited for the job because they can't even disguise themselves competently. Thus the logicians' attention is divided between keeping their villages' intelligence interests together and training these absolute morons who don't even know how to disguise themselves.
In broad strokes, the major consequences are the systemic failure of intelligence missions across the EN, a highly volatile diplomatic situation as everyone's got dirt on others spying on them, especially the major villages. Further, whatever explanation each village comes to, it is not a comforting explanation. Every ninja across the EN is given a reminder about how unstable and uncertain their world is, and that uncertainty sets the tone for the immediate future.
Of course, that's just me painting one picture, and you might have more things going on under the hood that radically alters this (for instance, if any grand secret plots have been biding their time *cough*Orochimaru*cough*Akatsuki*cough* then they might wind up revealing their plot early and throwing everything into disarray) or I could just be wrong about basic assumptions about the setting, but knowing what I know now this is roughly how I'd expect it to go.
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- Location
- Potato land
In my opinion, the simplest solution is to replace physical Henge with illusory Henge, rather than remove the technique outright. Memories could be modified retroactively to fit, but the modifications wouldn't need to be too invasive, given that illusory Henge can achieve most of what physical Henge does, but without the assorted problems. It would simply be a question of the user's skill - infiltration specialists like Mari would use a combination of physical disguise, Deceit and subtle Henge use for most of their work, and the technique would require dedication and skill to truly get mileage out of; it wouldn't be that useful to genin, but would nevertheless be taught at academies because of its relative simplicity.
Of course, some written records would be left indicating that Henge used to work differently, and a sufficiently inquisitive and paranoid mind could piece them together to form the conclusion that a change had occurred. There already exists precedent for that within the story, though - see Kagome's observations on "original Henge". It would be left up to the readers to speculate why the change took place, and who was responsible.
Drasky
Dude
Oh, nice.
We even gave out that Akane can lower the temperature in the area as well. So we didn't just give one part of the technique away, but it was a full OPSEC breach.
Don't understand why Hazou could not say something like "We used a technique that we cannot disclose for OPSEC reasons to raise the temperature everywhere except the mansion entrance"
Or at the very least "Akane has a ninjutsu that can raise the temperature in an area for a while."
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
[X] Action Plan: The Finishers
Feel free. Although, I guess you may not want to:
Is there another way we can squeeze some juice out of this one then, or is he a spent resource?
I've fixed this.
Feel free. Although, I guess you may not want to:
Is there another way we can squeeze some juice out of this one then, or is he a spent resource?
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- Location
- Yes.
I would think he is. We don't want to do anything that gets Bonku under questioning, after all.
I mean, maybe at best we could use him to contact the other Leaf teams but the only way they'll listen to him is with a Leaf password and we obviously do NOT want to give a Mist civilian those...yeah, I don't think we tap Bonku anymore.
Drasky
Dude
Is giving out all 100 roles something we should be doing? We want Leaf Teams to do well that's true but do we want them to do as well as we did on the event?
Also any reason not to use the buddy system?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
In that case I propose we shift our mental energies towards proofreading of yours and @Radvic 's plans.
There does not seem to be any last minute cleverness on our parts that can give them a bit of n edge here, everything I think we could propose ultimately relies on their direct execution.
NB: I do not believe we have sufficiently considered any possible enemy action in the last few hours of the exam. This one *could* get messy towards the end.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
I added the guessing part, I didn't add listing Noburi and Keiko because I'm unsure on its utility. Given the clear zero-sum nature, I imagine that if we list Noburi and Keiko and are disqualified, nothing will happen rather than them both losing 10 points (2 from ninja, 5 from secret role, +3 from name, team, & village) and us not gaining them. Given that, doing this simply adds potential political drama power to Mist by letting them reveal that we treated Noburi and Keiko differently from Team Super Leaf, which weakens our position politically.
Personally, I don't really want to apologize to Akane, but you're more than welcome to copy my plan and add a bullet there if you want. Approval voting exists in this quest specifically to avoid split vote concerns.
Well, if Akane's team already know about Bonku, then there's little we have to offer them, aside from using Bonku. I'll adjust it to that -- offering that we will do things with Bonku if they want us to (e.g. out Urahara the Fur Trader as a ninja).
Added in a contingencies section.
This seems wise. Added to Team Super Leaf Politics section (Which used to be offering Bonku to Team Clanless)
Current Plan is:
@Vecht @Tua @Enjou @Kiba I have made modifications to the plan (see above quote). Primary difference is that since Team Clanless already knows about Bonku, rather than bartering with the knowledge of him, we are bartering with interacting with him for their gain and extending the offer to Team Asuma (which presumably doesn't know about Bonku). Other minor changes include:
- Confirming voting strategy with Team Super Leaf to head off potential drama
- Adding contingency about non-disguised proctors (since we've failed to do this in the past)
- Guessing unsure village/ream/name/role for ninja we are unsure of
- Interacting with Bonku to fulfill bargains we make (if we make them)
In general, more specific methods of infiltration would be required. Physical non-henge disguises would be in high demand. People would probably be confused why so many of the disguise ingredients are out of stock, and how they forgot to bring their disguises. People may use Genjutsu in place of Henge in certain places. Physical modification jutsu outside of Henge would likely start to be used more.
In general, I see two major ways of doing this:
- There is clear cognative dissonance as everyone just forgets stuff, and over the next few months people address the new needs
- E.g. many infiltration ninja are caught "because they forgot their disguises," more disguise ingredients are made, physical manipulation jutsu are developed, people in Mist stop bumping each other for no reason
- There is less cognative dissonance amongst the populace, but there are historic changes made
- E.g. There are more genjutsu specialists (since they can kinda get around some of the henge requirements), there are more specific physical manipulation jutsu (e.g. turn yourself into a civilian via an hour long jutsu which can only be undone by performing the same ritual in reverse, but everything about the civilian you turn yourself into must be anatomically correct and if you die in that form, you just die as a civilian), information gained via henge is forgotten.
I deem this an acceptable risk, hence why I included it in my plan initially. I think that going through Bonku through servants is sufficient layers of secrecy, especially as Mist would then need to track things back to Bonku and then to us. They my get suspicious of us, but so long as we don't go *too* crazy, I don't imagine they're going to have significant evidence. We can always deny interacting with him, or claim that someone else told us about the codeword. There are several available political defenses should he be discovered, so long as he doesn't know specifics about us.
Edit: I'm off to work. I don't expect to make future changes to my plan, though I might wind up checking again tonight. At this point, The Finishers will not be changing any of its major working components though, only potential changes are contingencies and specific wordings. Feel free to copy from it and change it and advocate for the changed version.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
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You misunderstand. The Watchers would just be notifying the Kages of the sealing failure, and that they have dealt with those responsible with extreme prejudice. With the responsible parties eliminated and the Kages aware of this, there's not much reason to lash out randomly and start a war.
- Location
- Yes.
Ahh, I do not agree. Mist would definitely go to the trouble to screw us.
Standard protocol for a servant who believes that [Person A] is a ninja is to slap them. Which will break their Henge. Mist proctors have full leeway to determine who's responsible for breaking the Henge, which means they will question [Person A] and the servant, at which point Bonku's involvement will become involved. And when presented with a Mist-nin, Bonku will immediately reveal that [civilian ID of SuperTeam Leaf] told him that [Person A] was a ninja and etc. etc.. Since Mist has a hard-on for fucking Leaf over, and since they were already going to be watching us (see the last update) I have no doubts that we'd get DQ'd.
I implore you to remove this from your plan.
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
I do want to mend things with Akane but I don't think the timing matters enough to make a new plan just for that. Will try to get it done after the event somehow.
Ignore this. Whether we list each or not, the result is 0 points and just agreeing to list each other with all the details prevents betrayal like you said.
I don't think we should give the non-STL teams the information of other Leaf teams. We do want Leaf to do well, obviously, but not better than us and STL.
I don't think there is a good reward to risk ratio in utilizing Bonku anymore. If we get outed as impersonating Mist ninja we'd be in big trouble. And for what? For chakra we don't even need anymore at this stage of the event? I would rather this part get stricken from the plan completely.
Imagine you are one of the Kage. Would you just believe some nebulous group that told you it was just sealing accident and they dealt with it? Because that is exactly the same thing they would say if they deliberately removed a technique and want to avoid conflict.
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