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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Oct 6, 2017 at 10:20 AM, finished with 337 posts and 16 votes.
  • 27
    [x] Profession
    [x] Where to live
    [x] Meal
    [x] Lore Update: Scenes from Konoha's Chunin Exams
    [x] Lore Update: Jiraiya reminisces about Naruto
    [x] Lore Update: Anything involving inscrutable Nara conversations
    [x] Lore Update: Shikamaru's lovestruck assistant hears he might get married to Keiko
    [X] Interlude: Zabuza Goes to Snow
    [x] Lore Update: The trials and tribulations of a humble YOUTHSUIT merchant
    [X] [Rollback] Chapter 159
    [X] Hiruzen's Diary of the Third Shinobi World War
    [X] Interlude: The fate of that one village we helped out a bit in Iron after we took Kagome away from them
    [X] Tobirama's Treatise on the Second Shinobi World War
    [X] The summaries of Yumehara's A History
    [X] Lore Update: The Doom Fortress and Kagome's Defection
    [x] Lore Update: Gai Gaiden: Youthsuit Origins
    [X] Interlude: The Death of Shikigami
    [x] Lore Update: that one time Tenten and Neji had to wear youthsuits, and why it's never happening again
    [X] Action Plan: War of the Blind
    [X] Lore Update: Scenes from Konoha's Chunin Exams (as related by Sakura if necessary?)
    - [x] Banana Repulic
    -- [x] You have to be able to taste the tears, at least
    - [x] A Sad One
    - [x] A Happy One
    - [x] Professional Latecomer
    -- [x] Only the Dark Side
    - [x] Moon
    - [x] French
    [x] [PROFESSION] Chef
    - [x] Maki
    - [x] Banana Vendor
    [x] Lore Update: More about Noburi's clan and how they react to him coming to the Chunin Exams
    -[X]No anchovies
    [X] Interlude: Akane's first day back in Leaf as a Leaf-nin
    [X] Interlude: Ninja Pirates
    [X] Interlude: Missing-nin & Yakuza hijinks
    [X] Interlude: That one spy whose sisters are probably dead and probably got tortured to death and gave up information to the Yakuza because we bolted as fast as we could from his house
    [X] Interlude: Jiraiya teaching a class of genin-in-training decades ago
    [X] Interlude: Hazou's dreams of a seal powered perfect future where civilians use seals for everything and there is no war and everything lives in the clouds where it's pretty and Akane's really nice
    [X] Interlude: Hazou's strained relationship with the Kurosawa (pre-missing nin)
    [X] Interlude: The forbidden love between a daimyo and a kage
    [x] Lore Update: More about Hazo's clan and how they react to him coming to the Chunin Exams
    [X] Interlude: That one time we no longer speak of when all the nations allied to defeat a sealing failure of interdimensional horror
    [X] Interlude: Grandmaster F's origins
    [X] Interlude: The foundation of the hidden Villages
    [X] Interlude: Icha Icha Love: Jun vs. The Chakra Ostritches
    [X] Interlude: Post-Mountain Politics
    [x] Lore Update: Canon Team 7 does stuff
    [x] Lore Update: Boom Boom Paradise: A horrible, in universe Kagome self-insert fic where he plays the role of the hero of the Elemental Nations, uniting people and bringing happiness to everyone with explosives
    [x][MEAL] Sushi
    See more…
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@eaglejarl I believe you need to tell the thing to organize by block?
Adhoc vote count started by OliWhail on Oct 6, 2017 at 11:54 AM, finished with 342 posts and 16 votes.
  • 27
    [x] Lore Update: Scenes from Konoha's Chunin Exams
    [x] Lore Update: Jiraiya reminisces about Naruto
    [x] Lore Update: Shikamaru's lovestruck assistant hears he might get married to Keiko
    [X] Interlude: Zabuza Goes to Snow
    [x] Lore Update: Anything involving inscrutable Nara conversations
    [x] Lore Update: that one time Tenten and Neji had to wear youthsuits, and why it's never happening again
    [X] Hiruzen's Diary of the Third Shinobi World War
    [X] Lore Update: The Doom Fortress and Kagome's Defection
    [X] Interlude: The Death of Shikigami
    [X] Tobirama's Treatise on the Second Shinobi World War
    [X] The summaries of Yumehara's A History
    [X] [Rollback] Chapter 159
    [x] Lore Update: Gai Gaiden: Youthsuit Origins
    [x] Lore Update: The trials and tribulations of a humble YOUTHSUIT merchant
    [X] Interlude: The fate of that one village we helped out a bit in Iron after we took Kagome away from them
    [x] Lore Update: More about Noburi's clan and how they react to him coming to the Chunin Exams
    [X] Lore Update: Scenes from Konoha's Chunin Exams (as related by Sakura if necessary?)
    [x] Where to live
    - [x] Banana Repulic
    [x] Profession
    - [x] Banana Vendor
    [x] Meal
    - [x] A Sad One
    -- [x] You have to be able to taste the tears, at least
    [X] Action Plan: War of the Blind
    [x] Lore Update: Canon Team 7 does stuff
    [x] Lore Update: More about Hazo's clan and how they react to him coming to the Chunin Exams
    [X] Interlude: Akane's first day back in Leaf as a Leaf-nin
    [X] Interlude: Ninja Pirates
    [X] Interlude: Missing-nin & Yakuza hijinks
    [X] Interlude: That one spy whose sisters are probably dead and probably got tortured to death and gave up information to the Yakuza because we bolted as fast as we could from his house
    [X] Interlude: Jiraiya teaching a class of genin-in-training decades ago
    [X] Interlude: Hazou's dreams of a seal powered perfect future where civilians use seals for everything and there is no war and everything lives in the clouds where it's pretty and Akane's really nice
    [X] Interlude: Hazou's strained relationship with the Kurosawa (pre-missing nin)
    [X] Interlude: The forbidden love between a daimyo and a kage
    [x] Lore Update: Boom Boom Paradise: A horrible, in universe Kagome self-insert fic where he plays the role of the hero of the Elemental Nations, uniting people and bringing happiness to everyone with explosives
    [X] Interlude: That one time we no longer speak of when all the nations allied to defeat a sealing failure of interdimensional horror
    [X] Interlude: Grandmaster F's origins
    [X] Interlude: The foundation of the hidden Villages
    [X] Interlude: Icha Icha Love: Jun vs. The Chakra Ostritches
    [X] Interlude: Post-Mountain Politics
    [x] Profession
    - [x] Professional Latecomer
    [x] Meal
    - [x] A Happy One
    [x] Where to live
    - [x] Moon
    -- [x] Only the Dark Side
    [x] Testing thing 1
    - [x] subthing 1
    [x] Profession
    - [x] Banker
    [x] Profession
    - [x] Jinchuriki
    [x] Meal
    - [x] Sasuke
    [x] Meal
    - [x] Ramen
    [x] Profession
    - [x] Hokage, of course.
    [x] Where to live
    - [x] Konoha
    [x] Where to live
    - [x] Seattle
    -- [x] downtown!
    [x] Where to live
    - [x] Seattle
    -- [x] but not downtown
    [x] Meal
    - [x] Pizza
    See more…
Click to expand...
 
More messing around trying to build Hazou using PL10:

So, I'm thinking that you could lump a bunch of combat advantages and extras on his STR-damage together to represent all his various bullshit. That way you could have the standard "Close Combat: Unarmed + STR = 20" thing, yet still have Hazou's stuff help him rather than hindering him. Or you could make an array of "things Hazou can do instead of just punching" which is sort of against the spirit of arrays (they're supposed to be different ways you can use the same power-source, which is why I was writing different arrays for different elements), but it's technically doable.

And then there's one other thing I've been considering. We could always just take the things a character rarely uses and leave them off the character sheet to simplify it. Has Hazou ever used the basic clone? @faflec, you're the one with the awesome memory (/obsessive rereading habit), can you remember anyone ever casting basic clone? I think certain things (rarely used jutsu, non-combat jutsu, etc.) might be better handled as narrative things, rather than aspects of a character sheet, or as uses of a hero point in the way you can spend them to get "new powers as the plot demands". Or that might be a terrible idea that causes no end of problems.

So with that in mind, have a proto charsheet design:

150/150PP
Abilities (STR 10, STA 10, AGL 0, DEX 0, FGT 10, INT 4, AWE 0, PRE 0.) @ 68PP
Defences (Dodge 10 [+10]. Fortitude 0 [+10]. Parry 0 [+10]. Toughness 0 [+10]. Will 10 [+10].) @ 20PP
Skills (Deception 10 [+10/+15]. Expertise: Sealing 16 [+20].) @ 13PP
Advantages (Artificer: Sealing. Attractive 2. Benefit: noble. Benefit: hokage's son.) @ 5PP
Iron Nerve (Feature 1: replicate past movements. Second Chance: failing Dodge or Parry saves that would result in death. Feature 2: major circumstance bonus to design checks for reverse engineering seen seals. Feature 2: major circumstance bonus for seal construction checks.) @ 6PP
Roki (Affliction 10 vs Will, impaired and vulnerable, disabled and defenceless, extra condition, limited: first and second degree, instant recovery, linked to STR-damage.) @ 5PP
Hazou's Fighting Options (Array, max 16:
  • Gauntlets (Penetrating on Str-damage. Removable.) 1/r, -1/5
  • Rings (Damage 10, area: cone. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • MEW (Create stone shapes 5, ranged, continuous, limited: walls.) 3/r
  • Pangolin Earth Armour (Impervious 8 on Toughness, continuous.) 2/r
  • Living Roots (Senses: ranged touch, continuous, medium: the ground, linked to... Enhanced Perception 20, continuous, medium: the ground.) 1+0.5/r
  • Air Dome (Create air constructs 10, continuous, limited: domes. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • Earth Dome (Create stone shapes 10, continuous, limited: domes. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • Banshee (Damage 10 vs Fortitude, area: auditory perception. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
.) @ 23PP
Ninja Mobility (Movement 2: wall-crawling, water walking. Speed 1. Leaping 1.) @ 6PP
Skywalkers (Flight 1. Removable.) @ 2PP
Banshee Slayers (Immunity 2: auditory perception effects. Removable.) @ 2PP

You can see that it's missing some stuff. Henge, substitution, clone, Pantorkrator's Hammer, etc. and a few traits that I feel he should have, such as Daze: Deception, some ranks in Insight, and a few other minor details. But it's certainly less convoluted than the last few iterations, so that's a step in the right direction, maybe? Or maybe Hazou just needs to be a slightly higher Power Level to accurately reflect his in-story self.
 
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Substitution you could handwave as part of a character's Dodge ranks. Henge could feasibly be part of a Fighting Options array, since it would take an action to cast. You wouldn't need it to be continuous, because it's hard to use henge in combat, so keeping it as sustained so that you have to drop it to use any other Fighting Option would work. Umm... Earth Clone would be a summon effect, easy to add it to the array. HLaM would be ranks of burrowing. Probably continuous to let you cast Living Roots and ranged jutsu that can travel through the ground. For that matter, you'd need Tunneler's Freind (Immunity 2: suffocation effects. Removable.) and for that matter, Purifier (Nullify gases, close, area: cone. Removable.), TF would have to be outside the array, but Purifier could probably be inside it?

@OliWhail, do Fighting Option arrays look like something that could potentially be used, or is it something that the QMs are likely to disallow out of hand? Because I'm struggling to make a charsheet for Hazou without it that isn't just plain awful.
 
Kylinger said:
Would this combat be the quest equivalent of crashing the game?
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More like catastrophic lag due to system resources being overloaded. If you were prepared to wait, the combat might eventually have loaded, frame by frame, over the next six months or so. Or you could have got a BSOD at the worst possible moment.

OliWhail said:
It exists solely as a a test for graduating the academy as far as I know. And maybe technically as a hidden prerequisite for real clone techniques.
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Sakura uses them during the Chūnin Exams, though that tells you more about Sakura than the technique.
 
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Velorien said:
Sakura uses them during the Chūnin Exams, though that tells you more about Sakura than the technique. Also, they're the basis for the original Sexy Technique, and hence also Konohamaru's Sexy Technique before he learns the Shadow Clone Technique.
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Isn't the Sexy Technique just a henge into a sexy naked woman? I don't see what the basic clone would have to do with it at all.
 
Enjou said:
Isn't the Sexy Technique just a henge into a sexy naked woman? I don't see what the basic clone would have to do with it at all.
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By which I naturally mean the Harem Technique, though we don't know if Naruto invented it before or after learning the Shadow Clone Technique.

Edit: On reflection, I don't know what I'm talking about. I will edit the original post.
 
Velorien said:
By which I naturally mean the Harem Technique, though we don't know if Naruto invented it before or after learning the Shadow Clone Technique.
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Given Naruto's canon reason for failing the academy exam was that he was utter shit at the basic clone technique and the first instance of us seeing him use the Harem Technique is after learning how to make Shadow Clones, I'm pretty sure he just came up with it after that.


My guess is that the basic clones are just something Kishimoto put in early on for story reasons, but couldn't really ever think of a reason to use much since Naruto had a much better clone technique, so he just had Sakura use it that once for no other reason than he didn't have much else she could do at the time. If you want to look at it from a MfD perspective, I'd say it'd probably be something that genin use against eachother or against threats like bandits or vision oriented chakra beasts, but ceases to be useful once they start learning better techniques and upping their skills. From a testing perspective at the Academy, it's probably used as a means to test if the prospective genin has the minimum level of chakra control desired from a ninja.
 
MadScientist said:
More messing around trying to build Hazou using PL10:

So, I'm thinking that you could lump a bunch of combat advantages and extras on his STR-damage together to represent all his various bullshit. That way you could have the standard "Close Combat: Unarmed + STR = 20" thing, yet still have Hazou's stuff help him rather than hindering him. Or you could make an array of "things Hazou can do instead of just punching" which is sort of against the spirit of arrays (they're supposed to be different ways you can use the same power-source, which is why I was writing different arrays for different elements), but it's technically doable.

And then there's one other thing I've been considering. We could always just take the things a character rarely uses and leave them off the character sheet to simplify it. Has Hazou ever used the basic clone? @faflec, you're the one with the awesome memory (/obsessive rereading habit), can you remember anyone ever casting basic clone? I think certain things (rarely used jutsu, non-combat jutsu, etc.) might be better handled as narrative things, rather than aspects of a character sheet, or as uses of a hero point in the way you can spend them to get "new powers as the plot demands". Or that might be a terrible idea that causes no end of problems.

So with that in mind, have a proto charsheet design:

150/150PP
Abilities (STR 10, STA 10, AGL 0, DEX 0, FGT 10, INT 4, AWE 0, PRE 0.) @ 68PP
Defences (Dodge 10 [+10]. Fortitude 0 [+10]. Parry 0 [+10]. Toughness 0 [+10]. Will 10 [+10].) @ 20PP
Skills (Deception 10 [+10/+15]. Expertise: Sealing 16 [+20].) @ 13PP
Advantages (Artificer: Sealing. Attractive 2. Benefit: noble. Benefit: hokage's son.) @ 5PP
Iron Nerve (Feature 1: replicate past movements. Second Chance: failing Dodge or Parry saves that would result in death. Feature 2: major circumstance bonus to design checks for reverse engineering seen seals. Feature 2: major circumstance bonus for seal construction checks.) @ 6PP
Roki (Affliction 10 vs Will, impaired and vulnerable, disabled and defenceless, extra condition, limited: first and second degree, instant recovery, linked to STR-damage.) @ 5PP
Hazou's Fighting Options (Array, max 16:
  • Gauntlets (Penetrating on Str-damage. Removable.) 1/r, -1/5
  • Rings (Damage 10, area: cone. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • MEW (Create stone shapes 5, ranged, continuous, limited: walls.) 3/r
  • Pangolin Earth Armour (Impervious 8 on Toughness, continuous.) 2/r
  • Living Roots (Senses: ranged touch, continuous, medium: the ground, linked to... Enhanced Perception 20, continuous, medium: the ground.) 1+0.5/r
  • Air Dome (Create air constructs 10, continuous, limited: domes. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • Earth Dome (Create stone shapes 10, continuous, limited: domes. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • Banshee (Damage 10 vs Fortitude, area: auditory perception. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
.) @ 23PP
Ninja Mobility (Movement 2: wall-crawling, water walking. Speed 1. Leaping 1.) @ 6PP
Skywalkers (Flight 1. Removable.) @ 2PP
Banshee Slayers (Immunity 2: auditory perception effects. Removable.) @ 2PP

You can see that it's missing some stuff. Henge, substitution, clone, Pantorkrator's Hammer, etc. and a few traits that I feel he should have, such as Daze: Deception, some ranks in Insight, and a few other minor details. But it's certainly less convoluted than the last few iterations, so that's a step in the right direction, maybe? Or maybe Hazou just needs to be a slightly higher Power Level to accurately reflect his in-story self.
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Trying to mod this for higher PLs:

To make this build scale, Hazou needs to be spending the following per PL:
  • STR +1 @ 2PP
  • STA +1 @ 2PP
  • FGT +1 @ 2PP
  • Dodge +1 @ 1PP
  • Will +1 @ 1PP
  • HFO +2 points max @ 2PP
  • Roki +1 @ 0.5PP
  • Sealing +1 @ 0.5PP
  • Leaving 4/15PP remaining
So I imagine that with this 4PP we can buff out some but not all of the inaccuracies at PL11. And yes, you can't technically have 0.5 of a power point, but it makes the maths easier to treat it that way.

165/165PP
Abilities (STR 11, STA 11, AGL 0, DEX 0, FGT 11, INT 4, AWE 0, PRE 0.) @ 74PP
Defences (Dodge 11 [+11]. Fortitude 0 [+11]. Parry 0 [+11]. Toughness 0 [+11]. Will 11 [+11].) @ 22PP
Skills (Deception 10 [+10/+15]. Expertise: Sealing 17 [+21].) @ 13.5PP
Advantages (Artificer: Sealing. Attractive 2. Benefit: noble. Benefit: hokage's son.) @ 5PP
Iron Nerve (Feature 1: replicate past movements. Second Chance: failing Dodge or Parry saves that would result in death. Feature 2: major circumstance bonus to design checks for reverse engineering seen seals. Feature 2: major circumstance bonus for seal construction checks.) @ 6PP
Roki (Affliction 11 vs Will, impaired and vulnerable, disabled and defenceless, extra condition, limited: first and second degree, instant recovery, linked to STR-damage.) @ 5.5PP
Hazou's Fighting Options (Array, max 18:
  • MEW (Create stone shapes 6, ranged, continuous, limited: walls.) 3/r
  • Pangolin Earth Armour (Impervious 9 on Toughness, continuous.) 2/r
  • Earth Clone (Summon earth clones 2, multiple minions 2, horde, continuous, sacrifice.) 9/r
  • Living Roots (Senses: ranged touch, continuous, medium: the ground, linked to... Enhanced Perception 21, continuous, medium: the ground.) 1+0.5/r
  • Hiding Like a Mole (Burrowing 9, continuous.) 2/r
  • Gauntlets (Penetrating on Str-damage. Removable.) 1/r, -1/5
  • Rings (Damage 11, area: cone. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • Air Dome (Create air constructs 11, continuous, limited: domes. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • Earth Dome (Create stone shapes 11, continuous, limited: domes. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • Banshee (Damage 11 vs Fortitude, area: auditory perception. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
.) @ 27PP
Ninja Mobility (Movement 2: wall-crawling, water walking. Speed 1. Leaping 1.) @ 6PP
Skywalkers (Flight 1. Removable.) @ 2PP
Banshee Slayers (Immunity 2: auditory perception effects. Removable.) @ 2PP
Tunneler's Friend (Immunity 2: suffocation. Removable.) @ 2PP

Alright. That's starting to look a bit more like Hazou. Still no Insight, an annoying lack of combat advantages, and some things like Henge and Purifiers would have to rely on hero points to use, but you could reasonably play this character sheet and have people say "You're playing Hazou.", at least as far as most of his combat abilities go.
 
MadScientist said:
Trying to mod this for higher PLs:

To make this build scale, Hazou needs to be spending the following per PL:
  • STR +1 @ 2PP
  • STA +1 @ 2PP
  • FGT +1 @ 2PP
  • Dodge +1 @ 1PP
  • Will +1 @ 1PP
  • HFO +2 points max @ 2PP
  • Roki +1 @ 0.5PP
  • Sealing +1 @ 0.5PP
  • Leaving 4/15PP remaining
So I imagine that with this 4PP we can buff out some but not all of the inaccuracies at PL11. And yes, you can't technically have 0.5 of a power point, but it makes the maths easier to treat it that way.

165/165PP
Abilities (STR 11, STA 11, AGL 0, DEX 0, FGT 11, INT 4, AWE 0, PRE 0.) @ 74PP
Defences (Dodge 11 [+11]. Fortitude 0 [+11]. Parry 0 [+11]. Toughness 0 [+11]. Will 11 [+11].) @ 22PP
Skills (Deception 10 [+10/+15]. Expertise: Sealing 17 [+21].) @ 13.5PP
Advantages (Artificer: Sealing. Attractive 2. Benefit: noble. Benefit: hokage's son.) @ 5PP
Iron Nerve (Feature 1: replicate past movements. Second Chance: failing Dodge or Parry saves that would result in death. Feature 2: major circumstance bonus to design checks for reverse engineering seen seals. Feature 2: major circumstance bonus for seal construction checks.) @ 6PP
Roki (Affliction 11 vs Will, impaired and vulnerable, disabled and defenceless, extra condition, limited: first and second degree, instant recovery, linked to STR-damage.) @ 5.5PP
Hazou's Fighting Options (Array, max 18:
  • MEW (Create stone shapes 6, ranged, continuous, limited: walls.) 3/r
  • Pangolin Earth Armour (Impervious 9 on Toughness, continuous.) 2/r
  • Earth Clone (Summon earth clones 2, multiple minions 2, horde, continuous, sacrifice.) 9/r
  • Living Roots (Senses: ranged touch, continuous, medium: the ground, linked to... Enhanced Perception 21, continuous, medium: the ground.) 1+0.5/r
  • Hiding Like a Mole (Burrowing 9, continuous.) 2/r
  • Gauntlets (Penetrating on Str-damage. Removable.) 1/r, -1/5
  • Rings (Damage 11, area: cone. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • Air Dome (Create air constructs 11, continuous, limited: domes. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • Earth Dome (Create stone shapes 11, continuous, limited: domes. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
  • Banshee (Damage 11 vs Fortitude, area: auditory perception. Removable.) 2/r, -1/5
.) @ 27PP
Ninja Mobility (Movement 2: wall-crawling, water walking. Speed 1. Leaping 1.) @ 6PP
Skywalkers (Flight 1. Removable.) @ 2PP
Banshee Slayers (Immunity 2: auditory perception effects. Removable.) @ 2PP
Tunneler's Friend (Immunity 2: suffocation. Removable.) @ 2PP

Alright. That's starting to look a bit more like Hazou. Still no Insight, an annoying lack of combat advantages, and some things like Henge and Purifiers would have to rely on hero points to use, but you could reasonably play this character sheet and have people say "You're playing Hazou.", at least as far as most of his combat abilities go.
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On the other hand, that does not scale Hazou's secondary traits at all: Stuff like "insanely good at planning at a moment's notice" or "Is damned smart in his own right" -- I can see that latter one being a pretty big problem for Keiko, too.

Stuff like Banshees, and the Domes, and his rings , I feel, would be better modeled in the context of not-spending-XP as inventions, rather than devices.
 
Cariyaga said:
On the other hand, that does not scale Hazou's secondary traits at all: Stuff like "insanely good at planning at a moment's notice" or "Is damned smart in his own right" -- I can see that latter one being a pretty big problem for Keiko, too.
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Well INT 4 equates to "As smart as a scientist from the template in the Player's Handbook", whereas INT 5 would be "Smartest person in a nation", INT 6 would be "One of the smartest people in the entire world" and INT 7 would be "Smartest non-augmented human that has ever lived". I was thinking INT 8 "Low superhuman intelligence" for Kei, and probably the same level +/- 1 for the other Nara/Mori.

His insanely good at planning thing is better represented by him using our plans, I think. But you could build powers for it if you wanted to cram more into his build. Things like Impose Tactical Disadvantage (Affliction vs Will, impaired and vulnerable, perception, movement action, extra condition, limited: first degree.) @ 3 points per rank, or Rube-Goldberg Strategy (Luck Control 4: all options, luck 5, quirk: not on the first round of combat.) @ 16PP.

But Hazou's build is already so tight that I'm not sure that it would be an improvement to do so unless we were given a fairly high power level compared to other chunin and had some way to earn bonus power points by innovating to pay for said innovations.
 
MadScientist said:
Well INT 4 equates to "As smart as a scientist from the template in the Player's Handbook", whereas INT 5 would be "Smartest person in a nation", INT 6 would be "One of the smartest people in the entire world" and INT 7 would be "Smartest non-augmented human that has ever lived". I was thinking INT 8 "Low superhuman intelligence" for Kei, and probably the same level +/- 1 for the other Nara/Mori.

His insanely good at planning thing is better represented by him using our plans, I think. But you could build powers for it if you wanted to cram more into his build. Things like Impose Tactical Disadvantage (Affliction vs Will, impaired and vulnerable, perception, movement action, extra condition, limited: first degree.) @ 3 points per rank, or Rube-Goldberg Strategy (Luck Control 4: all options, luck 5, quirk: not on the first round of combat.) @ 16PP.

But Hazou's build is already so tight that I'm not sure that it would be an improvement to do so unless we were given a fairly high power level compared to other chunin and had some way to earn bonus power points by innovating to pay for said innovations.
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Well, assuming that Pangolin Training Jutsu still works, that oughta be significantly cheaper...

e: Also, a problem I'm seeing is that seals, by the nature of the system, are going to be keyed to Hazou's power level, even when that's not particularly appropriate
 
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I mean, to keep the feel of the setting, you could do something like "unless you have a bloodline that lets you, you can't raise any ability above 5", ban the Defensive Roll advantage (which is Toughness ranks as an active defence like Dodge or Parry), force characters to rely on ranks of Dodge and Parry to protect themselves against Toughness attacks (which is less cost effective than just maxing Toughness, Fortitude, and Will and ignoring Dodge/Parry completely), and thus make defensive justu (Protection effects) worth a lot, because Protection is just ranks of Toughness as a power rather than a defence (though it still counts towards power level limits), and then have chakra-boosting as a power in a Fighting Option array using a sustained Enhanced STR effect.

That would keep the tone a bit more, and also make defensive techniques a bit more valuable. Might be that it causes some other problems though.

EDIT: actually, messing around that much with the rules makes me uncomfortable...

EDIT2: The thing is, Hazou is very much not what I would design if I was building a M&M character from scratch. He's got a lot of different things, and when you're tempted to break out the metamorph ranks just so that all the different stuff doesn't jumble up into a mess, that's when you know you've overdesigned a character concept.

If I was building Hazou from scratch, I would leave all the seals, gauntlets, rings, and doton stuff out, and just make him a trickster/tactician martial artist. Or drop the doton and the taijutsu and leave him as a trickster/tactician sealmaster. The old system rewarded collecting as many different edges as you can get your hands on. But in M&M there's a ceiling to how good you can be, and adding more stuff isn't going to push you through that ceiling. It's just going to make you less optimised.
 
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MadScientist said:
I mean, the keep the feel of the setting, you could do something like "unless you have a bloodline that lets you, you can't raise any ability above 5", ban the Defensive Roll advantage (which is Toughness ranks as an active defence like Dodge or Parry), force characters to rely on ranks of Dodge and Parry to protect themselves against Toughness attacks (which is less cost effective than just maxing Toughness, Fortitude, and Will and ignoring Dodge/Parry completely), and thus make defensive justu (Protection effects) worth a lot, because Protection is just ranks of Toughness as a power rather than a defence (though it still counts towards power level limits), and then have chakra-boosting as a power in a Fighting Option array using a sustained Enhanced STR effect.

That would keep the tone a bit more, and also make defensive techniques a bit more valuable. Might be that it causes some other problems though.

EDIT: actually, messing around that much with the rules makes me uncomfortable...

EDIT2: The thing is, Hazou is very much not what I would design if I was building a M&M character from scratch. He's got a lot of different things, and when you're tempted to break out the metamorph ranks just so that all the different stuff doesn't jumble up into a mess, that's when you know you've overdesigned a character concept.

If I was building Hazou from scratch, I would leave all the seals, gauntlets, rings, and doton stuff out, and just make him a trickster/tactician martial artist. Or drop the doton and the taijutsu and leave him as a trickster/tactician sealmaster. The old system rewarded collecting as many different edges as you can get your hands on. But in M&M there's a ceiling to how good you can be, and adding more stuff isn't going to push you through that ceiling. It's just going to make you less optimised.
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Ugh, I feel like making power level uncapped would work better, but it'd also open up a whole other can of worms...
 
MadScientist said:
I mean, the keep the feel of the setting, you could do something like "unless you have a bloodline that lets you, you can't raise any ability above 5", ban the Defensive Roll advantage (which is Toughness ranks as an active defence like Dodge or Parry), force characters to rely on ranks of Dodge and Parry to protect themselves against Toughness attacks (which is less cost effective than just maxing Toughness, Fortitude, and Will and ignoring Dodge/Parry completely), and thus make defensive justu (Protection effects) worth a lot, because Protection is just ranks of Toughness as a power rather than a defence (though it still counts towards power level limits), and then have chakra-boosting as a power in a Fighting Option array using a sustained Enhanced STR effect.

That would keep the tone a bit more, and also make defensive techniques a bit more valuable. Might be that it causes some other problems though.

EDIT: actually, messing around that much with the rules makes me uncomfortable...

EDIT2: The thing is, Hazou is very much not what I would design if I was building a M&M character from scratch. He's got a lot of different things, and when you're tempted to break out the metamorph ranks just so that all the different stuff doesn't jumble up into a mess, that's when you know you've overdesigned a character concept.

If I was building Hazou from scratch, I would leave all the seals, gauntlets, rings, and doton stuff out, and just make him a trickster/tactician martial artist. Or drop the doton and the taijutsu and leave him as a trickster/tactician sealmaster. The old system rewarded collecting as many different edges as you can get your hands on. But in M&M there's a ceiling to how good you can be, and adding more stuff isn't going to push you through that ceiling. It's just going to make you less optimised.
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Cariyaga said:
Ugh, I feel like making power level uncapped would work better, but it'd also open up a whole other can of worms...
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It almost sounds like this wouldn't be a good system for us to use?
 
Radvic said:
It almost sounds like this wouldn't be a good system for us to use?
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Well it's incredibly versatile, does combat well, has an inbuilt sealing invention system, and I think we could tweak how we do this build to make Hazou work. The thing is, Noburi and Kei are fairly easy to build at PL10, and come out very well optimised. It's just our bonus-kleptomaniac hero that's the problem child.
 
MadScientist said:
Well it's incredibly versatile, does combat well, has an inbuilt sealing invention system, and I think we could tweak how we do this build to make Hazou work. The thing is, Noburi and Kei are fairly easy to build at PL10, and come out very well optimised. It's just our bonus-kleptomaniac hero that's the problem child.
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I mean, realistically, it's not going to be just Hazou that's a bonus-kleptomaniac by the end of it. It'll be the whole team. Give it two months of research and we'll have chakra-detection seals from the casino seals, strapped to everybody.
 
MadScientist said:
Well it's incredibly versatile, does combat well, has an inbuilt sealing invention system, and I think we could tweak how we do this build to make Hazou work. The thing is, Noburi and Kei are fairly easy to build at PL10, and come out very well optimised. It's just our bonus-kleptomaniac hero that's the problem child.
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Could we just steal the invention system then? Or am I misunderstanding something fairly fundamental about MM?

It seems to me the largest problems are jutsu/seal development; having a good way to generate that would fix a lot of problems.
 
Yeah, would be (Senses: chakra awareness, radius. Removable.) @ 2PP. Not too bad. Well within even Hazou's spare PP per PL.

huhYeahGoodPoint said:
Could we just steal the invention system then? Or am I misunderstanding something fairly fundamental about MM?

It seems to me the largest problems are jutsu/seal development; having a good way to generate that would fix a lot of problems.
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The invention system is basically "build a power using the M&M effects, and then pass a check with a DC determined by how much those effects cost". So unless some other system has as versatile a power-building system, you couldn't really translate it that well.
 
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