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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Enjou said:
We're not. Mari only knew about the fireball, which doesn't even qualify as a WMD.
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Except Mari also knew that we could scale up such that it could make airbombing viable despite the accuracy problem.

I just...I'm honestly worried about Jiraiya's reaction to this, and I don't think showing him our bigger fireball is gonna be worth it.

glurgugh
 
Kiba said:
Remember that this is not only useful for semaphore/optical telegraph systems, but also radio communication and line telegraph as well. It could also be done as a day's work, maybe actually only two hours max. It's trivial to cobble together a system once you have the idea. You just need Hazō to realize that "on" and "off" are the simplest units that can represent information, and that you don't need all kind of symbols and handsigns.
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Maybe ask Jiraiya about encryption and ways to send compressed information, maybe a sort of "tap code" like morse already exists for subtle short range communications?
 
What we really need is a list of the seals in the catalog, including at a minimum at least one of each element and hopefully a yin and yang.

Yin in particular. I want basilisk hacks.
 
Veedrac said:
IIRC, it sounded to me like Dummy's problems merely caused explosive population growth. Not sure though.
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If that was what he was implying, it's almost certain that he's wrong about chakra beasts coming from the OP henge - there's far too many different species of chakra beasts out there for that to be the case IMO. People would have realized the problem before that many could come about. (also, who would transform into a queen chakra ant the size of a regular ant?)

If there's truth to the early henge users transforming into animals and not being able to turn back, then they would have stayed intelligent, so I think it might be more likely that the Sage would have used them as the basis of the summon realm. Just use his med-nin bullshit to customize them a bit further, link them to summon scrolls, and then their descendants are the current summons.


faflec said:
Except Mari also knew that we could scale up such that it could make airbombing viable despite the accuracy problem.

I just...I'm honestly worried about Jiraiya's reaction to this, and I don't think showing him our bigger fireball is gonna be worth it.

glurgugh
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Again, the responsible thing to do is give him a demonstration under controlled conditions, and voice our concerns. So something like this.
  • Fireball: Give Jiraiya a demonstration of the Macerator + burning log combination.
    • Before the demonstration, note that you tested this before coming to Leaf and hearing his warning about the Watchers, and you want his thoughts on if it might be a problem to use. Explain the current level is that of a B-rank fire jutsu, but could potentially be made bigger with a Macerator with bigger storage capacity, though probably not to the level of destroying civilization with a single use.
    • If it's a problem, suggest that the use be kept a clan secret to be used only when it's needed, and only at something around the current level.
That should address your concerns - if you are worried about Jiraiya thinking that we didn't take his warning seriously, then just telling him we are taking his concerns seriously and are asking for his advice should ensure he doesn't react badly because that's what a responsible person would do.
 
faflec said:
Except Mari also knew that we could scale up such that it could make airbombing viable despite the accuracy problem.

I just...I'm honestly worried about Jiraiya's reaction to this, and I don't think showing him our bigger fireball is gonna be worth it.

glurgugh
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I think that if we show sealcraft weapons, they need to be something that's not just "here's a bigger bomb!" (Note: this isn't saying "don't think of sealcraft bombs!", just don't show them.

... Can we get seals for reducing friction, altering mass(That one makes me afraid of what the math-crowd would do with it, though), continuous release of a wire from a storage seal?(I'm thinking something crazy like Bean's tactics from the starfield in the battle room in Ender's Game.) Just bouncing ideas.
 
I understand if people don't want to spend XP right now, but if not then we should do some research instead.

Any update that we get a training/research timeslot we should spend it. Otherwise we're just throwing it away. If we don't use it to train then we should use it to research. And it's not like we don't have projects galore to choose from! But even if we didn't, and we just chose to research the dumbest seal we could think of (the example that comes to mind is a seal that lights up in the presence of poison with a 99% false positive rate) that would still be better than doing nothing with our timeslot, because at least that would decrease the TNs of seals that share similarities to it.

Please. The action plan says we're making a lab for the invisible ink project, so let's get some research done.
 
Enjou said:
Again, the responsible thing to do is give him a demonstration under controlled conditions, and voice our concerns.
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I think it would be better to simply tell Jiraiya of the existence of the Macerator Fireball and the specs on it, and let him decide if he wants to see it. keep most other things though, like making it before hearing of his warnings about the Watchers, and actually testing it previously, too.

Edit:

[X] Research Hazou: Magnet Seal
[X] Research Hazou: Locking Seal
 
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Testing with macerator is easy. Meh.

I want Hazō to spend an afternoon researching and learning the basic seals, unless Jiraiya have something in mind.
 
Kiba said:
This reference here said that there are 71 kana letters. So, we'll need at minimum 2^7 bits to encode all the necessary kana to send data.

The hiragana consists of only 46 letters, so we only need 2^6 bits.

Remember that this is not only useful for semaphore/optical telegraph systems, but also radio communication and line telegraph as well. It could also be done as a day's work, maybe actually only two hours max. It's trivial to cobble together a system once you have the idea. You just need Hazō to realize that "on" and "off" are the simplest units that can represent information, and that you don't need all kind of symbols and handsigns.
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Ehhhhhh...

You probably will want to use some bits for error detection and correction (and probably also need at least something like a Hamming code rather than straightforward naive encodings).

...Hmm. Probably susceptible to MitM attacks. Literally, someone gets between two towers, puts up a big screen, intercepts messages and then does whatever they want. Definitely need at least some form of rudimentary encryption at any rate. Otherwise we'd be practically broadcasting information.

Grah. I can't stomach this. Can we just leave it up to the Nara? I don't think we can teach Hazou coding theory. :(
 
Ok, how does this look?
faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: Much Ado About Nothing

  • Ask Kagome follow-up questions before we head back.
    • IF we already went back, skip this part and ask him the questions later.
    • Sources of information (let Mari-sensei ask these questions):
      • What kind of records Kagome is basing his reasoning on, exactly? What kind of intel did he have access to?
      • How far into the past stretch the 'ancient' records Kagome was talking about?
    • What are...
      • Whirlpool revenants?
      • Akatsuki?
      • Hidden Depths?
      • Damnbeasts?
      • Gaki?
      • Leaf's Tailed Beast Breeding Programme?
    • Follow-up questions:
      • Why did the Sage create the Summoning Realm? Why ban seals there?
      • How did the Whirlpool experiments get leaked, and why wasn't it defended properly (surely the Sage could have subdued a wild Tailed Beast...)?
      • How did some lupchanzen end up working for Hidden Villages, when some of them (Cloud, Mist) are responsible for Whirlpool's destruction? Why wouldn't they all end up working for Leaf (since the Sage/his brother were also part of the experiments)?
        • For that matter, why haven't the Sage/Dummy reeled the lupchanz in?
      • If the Sage/his brother weren't sealmasters, how was sealcrafting started & who were its first masters (before Nishimura)?
      • Does he know what chakra is, how the Sage got it and gave it to everyone? What was the world like before chakra?
      • Why does Leaf use scorch squads if the Sage is all about peace?
  • Visit Dr. Yakushi.
    • Ask Noburi if he wants to revisit Dr. Yakushi while we're out.
      • Remind him we're still his minion for a research project.
      • Ask if he's got an idea ready. If not, suggest:
      • Learn how to use medical ninjutsu using water as a vector.
      • Have a discussion about how some diseases can only be caught once and suggest that maybe similar but less deadly diseases might also grant this protection.
    • Check with Jiraiya beforehand if he has any objections. Ask if he can schedule the meeting if needed.
    • Go with Noburi and our escort.
      • Thank him for taking care of Akane and getting her back on her feet.
      • Apologize for our earlier paranoia. We were in a very stressful situation and it affected our judgement.
      • If he asks about further looking at our bloodlines, politely tell him that he'd need to discuss the matter with Jiraiya.
  • Get lunch with Shikamaru.
    • Check with Jiraiya beforehand if he has any objections. See if he can contact the Nara (or if we should do this ourselves).
    • Learn basics of Nara Sign Language (if we haven't already):
      • Do this before lunch with Shikamaru.
      • Ask Minami if it would be possible for Hazou to learn (or if it's a clan secret kinda thing), and further if she would be willing to teach him the basics (this shouldn't take long given the Iron Nerve).
      • Earning the Nara's respect as fellows intellectually and showing willingness to learn their ways (at least, those they are willing to share) would be advantageous.
    • Make sure we've read more of Yumehara's History beforehand. Brush up.
    • General goals:
      • Avoid getting too excitable, but Hazou did enjoy the reading.
      • Use Nara sign language that Minami taught (assuming it is appropriate to use) while discussing it. Express interest in learning more.
      • Make sure to not reveal sensitive information about our recent actions (e.g., Skywalkers).
  • Sealing with Jiraiya:
    • Confirm with Jiraiya that we'll do seal research tomorrow afternoon (as he suggested). Ask:
      • Where we'd go for testing, and if we can set up proper sealing defenses beforehand (if applicable).
        • Use the Kagome Gold Standard™ if we set them up.
      • If our shopping list is OK, and (if he knows) where we'd get them:
        • If Jiraiya wants us to do shopping, we do so before heading to the hospital.
          • Invisible ink.
          • Extra (normal) ink and paper.
          • Supplies for Macerator testing.
            • Smoke Bombs: Ash, talc,...
            • Scent Bombs: Scented oils.
            • Pepper-Balls: Pepper, chilies,...
            • Flashbangs: Soft, white-hot metal.
    • When Jiraiya arrives, start testing.
      • Note: When infusing, have clones ready to Kawarimi us out of sealing failures.
      • Invisible ink seals (use the most basic seal we can make).
      • Macerator variants.
        • Smoke Bomb: Fill with ash or talc, mostly annoying.
        • Scent Bomb: Fill with scented oils or other similar materials.
          • Border patrols and other similar groups given these could tag a more powerful enemy and run, allowing more powerful teams with good noses to find them more easily.
        • Crowd Control: Fill with peppers, chilies or other skin or eye irritants.
          • Useful for disbanding/disabling groups of ninja.
          • Could provide a good way for temporary area denial with minimal property damage, or for crowd dispersal.
        • Flashbang: Fill with small amount of soft, white-hot metal.
          • Probably a bit difficult to get right, but it should fill the air with a large pile of glowing dust that is very bright for a tiny moment before it cools off.
          • Non-lethal, though it might cause minor blisters.
        • Fireball Bomb: Fill with a burning log.
          • Give Jiraiya the specs beforehand (like somewhere safe) + let him decide; show him only if he agrees.
          • Note that we already tested it and don't think it can be a world-ending application; Agent Black probably got the info from Mari-sensei earlier anyway.
          • Also note that the explosions we used are ~B-rank (confirm with Mari-sensei)
      • Wind Clone + Vacuum Step:
        • Use elemental clones to cast Vacuum Step on enemy ninja.
        • Since the enemy is considered an "obstacle" they take damage.
        • Probably requires high chakra capacity.
  • Miscellaneous (to be done offscreen as appropriate):
    • Read the seal book Jiraiya gave us. Make a note of:
      • Seal name.
      • Direct action (what, exactly, does it do?).
      • Existing applications.
Contingencies:
  • Keep Kagome-sensei from blowing anyone up as per usual.
  • Do not say anything that make you seem crazy or dangerous or reckless.
  • Do not divulge sensitive information, especially skywalkers.
    • If anyone ask, "that information is classified".
    • If someone is doubly insistent even after that, back away and consider calling in your escort for assistance.
    • If our escort's in on it, request that we return to our lodgings and tell Jiraiya later.
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Frankly, we should be holding off on everything with a nasty failure mode until after the vote. The last thing delicate political maneuvering requires is the subjects triggering a rift into existential-hazard-space or even just triggering an embarrassing alarm right now.

Just a couple more days and then we can go crazy. In the meantime, focus on securing the vote in our favor.
 
For research, I still want to look at Purifier variants. A mid-range goal along those lines is a seal that separates salt from water, both making the water safe to drink and giving an easy source of salt. Once we have a few variants under our belts we can look at filtering solids until we can do things like separate iron molecules from dirt or get some of the more exotic substances.
 
Oh yeah, should we mention the concept of pantographs to Jiraiya? Seems it could be pretty useful for mass-production of sealing.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
For research, I still want to look at Purifier variants. A mid-range goal along those lines is a seal that separates salt from water, both making the water safe to drink and giving an easy source of salt. Once we have a few variants under our belts we can look at filtering solids until we can do things like separate iron molecules from dirt or get some of the more exotic substances.
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Good enough for me, but then again I just want us to research literally anything.

[X] Research Hazou: Desalinator Seal
 
Vecht said:
Ehhhhhh...

You probably will want to use some bits for error detection and correction (and probably also need at least something like a Hamming code rather than straightforward naive encodings).

...Hmm. Probably susceptible to MitM attacks. Literally, someone gets between two towers, puts up a big screen, intercepts messages and then does whatever they want. Definitely need at least some form of rudimentary encryption at any rate. Otherwise we'd be practically broadcasting information.

Grah. I can't stomach this. Can we just leave it up to the Nara? I don't think we can teach Hazou coding theory. :(
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We can give it to Shikamaru and the Nara and they'll handle encryption.

faflec said:
Oh yeah, should we mention the concept of pantographs to Jiraiya? Seems it could be pretty useful for mass-production of sealing.
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I believe that the pantograph required geometry knowledge. Does Hazo has that in-character knowledge? Also, he's pretty terrible at MechApt, so he will likely screw up making a prototype.

MadScientist said:
Good enough for me, but then again I just want us to research literally anything.

[X] Research Hazou: Desalinator Seal
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You do realize that you can get salt just by boiling water? Just research the Heating Seal.

I also want us to start playing around with the basic seals that Jiraiya gave to us.
 
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