I'd been under the impression that @eaglejarl and @Velorien had treated aeration as by volume rather than mass? Again, not an MSE, so I don't know if by mass is standard

I've been using mass, since that's how it's usually given in the literature. But it'd be true for volume as well, since the sawdust is lots of little tiny particles and iron pellet is a large solid thing.

Also, An aeration fraction of 1% means 1% substance and 99% air, by mass in anything I've written so far. With 100% meaning 100% substance, 0% air.

It should probably be flipped :V but I don't want to rewrite the tables.
 
Really it should be "mass fraction" or something, but I chose a bad name when first writing it.

Edit: oh huh, it's even worse. The first post has the it right way around, the later ones don't. I chose a good name and mixed it up at some point :V

Edit2: Fuck it, I fixed it. It's correct now. But regardless, it's by mass since that's how all the tables I found do it. By volume way more of those would be 99%-99.9% or so. Turns out air is light.
 
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Really it should be "mass fraction" or something, but I chose a bad name when first writing it.

Edit: oh huh, it's even worse. The first post has the it right way around, the later ones don't. I chose a good name and mixed it up at some point :V
Something something Robert's Rules of Order, I move that henceforth we refer to "the percent of a payload comprised of air, by volume" as "aeration"
 
Something something Robert's Rules of Order, I move that henceforth we refer to "the percent of a payload comprised of air, by volume" as "aeration"

I oppose, for the reason that I will be the one looking this all up and I don't want to have to do density calculations all the time. I did fix the post so that aeration is "percent of payload comprised of air, by mass".
 
I oppose, for the reason that I will be the one looking this all up and I don't want to have to do density calculations all the time. I did fix the post so that aeration is "percent of payload comprised of air, by mass".
Blaaaagh. It just seems much more intuitive to me to say "Of the cubic meter of payload released by this macerator, I want half of that cubic meter to be air", y'know?
 
Blaaaagh. It just seems much more intuitive to me to say "Of the cubic meter of payload released by this macerator, I want half of that cubic meter to be air", y'know?

It is, but I'm lazy and don't want to have to do 3-4 lookups and some extra math to figure out the correct volumes when the literature says "when x% of the mass is <material> then <effect happens>" in pretty much every case.

Not to mention that the fraction by mass works much better when there's fluctuations in air pressure, humidity, or the like. The standard ways air can vary all cause changes in its density, and working by mass cancels those out.

Edit: The way I figure it Hazou had two options when developing the seal: Working by volume or working by weight. The hivemind nudges him to make to the seal release based on weight, rather than volume, and now he doesn't have to make different seals for every altitude band he plans to use them in.

The only big exception there is mist macerators, working by mass is still better, but how they react will depend on the local humidity and temperature in a way that density doesn't capture. Ideally they'd be designed to take completely dry air to 100% humidity, plus whatever extra is needed for the level of mist you're looking to achieve. When you're not in a desert, you'll overshoot that target level of mist and some will precipitate out. However that's not a particularly big issue for us.
 
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the literature says "when x% of the mass is <material> then <effect happens>" in pretty much every case.
Ah, I can see why that would make it inconvenient to deal in volume then. Motion withdrawn.

It could be for Arikada. Throw a few mist seals directly at her and she'll end up drenched, yeah?

e: Drenched and blind, at that, so unable to substitute out.
Yeah we should totally just drench her, then hurl macerators full of pulverized Izanai red, with the one full of paralytic hidden in somewhere in the storm.
 
Yeah we should totally just drench her, then hurl macerators full of pulverized Izanai red, with the one full of paralytic hidden in somewhere in the storm.

Yes, we get her too high to fight back.

I like this plan.

Edit: I would like to point out that the water will nucleate around the drugs and paralytic, making it more likely to precipitate out of the atmosphere. The drugs need to come before the mist, and ideally with at least a few breaths worth of delay. Otherwise we'll get a much lower amount of the stuff inside her.
 
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Ah, I can see why that would make it inconvenient to deal in volume then. Motion withdrawn.


Yeah we should totally just drench her, then hurl macerators full of pulverized Izanai red, with the one full of paralytic hidden in somewhere in the storm.

That said, this'll be plan B. Plan A will be a combination of Mari keeping her under genjutsu for long enough for us to take out the rest of her guards (have fun, Kagome), Panchipama guarding Mari, and, given the chance, putting Arikada under with the paralytic (though only if Nobby thinks he can keep her alive. Maybe use 80% of what we've got?)

If Mari indicates her genjutsu is failing (she can communicate while in genjutsu, right?) or it fails outright from the start, Keiko surrounds Arikada in mist so thick that even taking out seals hidden in a pouch would soak them through. At that point, Panchipama switches from Mari-guard duty to keeping Arikada from slicing us to pieces with ninja wired kunai (preferably from a distance), Nobby gets to work draining them, and Mari and Hazou are on wall-duty (wind and earth) while Akane, Keiko, and Kagome keep them from closing (again, ideally while at a distance; Akane may use Hotaru no Jutsu to confuse them).

e: Team sticks together, mostly, so as to avoid friendly fire.
 
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That said, this'll be plan B. Plan A will be ...

Why? Your plan A is improved by dosing them with the Izanai Red from the start.

Honestly, every combat plan that doesn't start in melee range is made better by aerosolized opiates. Oh, and combat plans that start in melee range are unworkable and will get us killed.
 
Why? Your plan A is improved by dosing them with the Izanai Red from the start.

Honestly, every combat plan that doesn't start in melee range is made better by aerosolized opiates. Oh, and combat plans that start in melee range are unworkable and will get us killed.
Is Izanai Red sufficiently distracting to be of use in this sense? And yes, I agree with the second point.

e: Feel free to modify that mini-combat plan as you wish, that was a spur of the moment thing I put together on thinking of our team's capabilities.

e2: ...I have an idea coming together in my head. What if we turned the battlefield into a grid? With codephrases, of course, and we'd need some way to communicate them to each other silently (would handsignals be enough at close range if we were all in the mist?).

This way, Nobby could communicate to us where they are at in the mist, under the assumption that he has the focus to spare while draining.
 
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Question: I seem to recall that Truth Lost in Fog can snare multiple people, iirc with penalty dice for each extra person, and that Mari does not have to pay the price as long as she doesn't trigger the memory loss function. Can anyone back up my memory here?

If that's the case (@eaglejarl? @Velorien?), we should see about trying to snare some of the guards as well.
 
Question: I seem to recall that Truth Lost in Fog can snare multiple people, iirc with penalty dice for each extra person, and that Mari does not have to pay the price as long as she doesn't trigger the memory loss function. Can anyone back up my memory here?

If that's the case (@eaglejarl? @Velorien?), we should see about trying to snare some of the guards as well.
I remember that too, pretty sure it's the case. It might be a viable tactic for her to snare the guards, Keiko throws an explosive kunai, and then she releases them.
 
Okay, I REALLY need to get to sleep, but I felt a strong desire to reread the recent thread posts, and I noted a whole bunch of things that wanted responding.

How quickly does the paralytic kill? Did it stop their hearts or their lungs or both?
It killed them in whatever way opium would in real life -- I think that's by lungs? Again, what you have is mostly mangled up cloth bag, well-mixed with a little bit of dragonfly "venom". The first rat was helpless in seconds, dead in well under a minute. The second was blissed ed out and staggering but never defenseless.

How likely does Nobby think he is to be able to keep her stable if she breathed it in? If he were to constantly provide her medical chakra, would that be enough to keep her going?

He really has no idea. Not enough data points, and the ones he has are very unreliable.

@eaglejarl I hate to throw more questions at you right now, but I'll forget these if I don't:
what day is it relative to the timeline J gave us,

have we entered the town with an established cover story, and

is anyone manning the fort?
Respectively: You have two days left.

You didn't specify one in your plan, so I'm going with "you came in as regular civilian travelers as three groups of different sizes."


Man the Mori Voice sucks. It's like having your brain plugged into a youtube comments sections.

I really like this phrase. I hope you don't mind if I use it in my writing?

I'm too tired to dig up the plan right now, sorry. If it was in the plan that someone stays in the fort while the rest go into town then yes, that happened. If not, everyone is in town.

Are alarm seals more vulnerable to seal cthuluing since their activation has a longer than instantaneous duration? If we spill chakra ink on a blaring alarm seal, will that do bad things?

Not that you know of, although you have yet to spend any significant time on the alarm seals.

Do you want to perform the experiment?


@eaglejarl So how was the powder given to the rats: ingestion, inhalation...?
Inhalation.

I doubt we can find a good source of razor blades/small pointy bits of metal, but we should be able to fill some bags of rocks for Buckshot no Jutsu macerators.
The current macerator seal lacks the strengths to "chew" up kunai, but in future dumping in a bunch ideally will give you sharp shreds.

@eaglejarl The last plan called for us (as Hazou) to bring up talking with Mayor Emiya with the rest of our group; how did this conversation go?
They are cautiously on board.

So we could add a bite to the Macerator seal by adding in flint or some other rocks with the bag of items needing to be ground up, instead of just relying on the inherent forces that magic manipulating ink. It should fill the gap until we can refine the process. Simple solution to our current problem of the seal not working as effectively for certain objects. If we run the bugs through multiple times and the sieve out the non reactive parts we should get a better product which we can more safely use.
Running the bugs through multiple times won't help; you are limited by the abilities of the macerator.

I don't think that'll work. It's not as if the macerator tumbles its contents. The forces are applied for a single instant, as the object is being placed into the storage space. There's real way for the flint and other materials to interact there.
All of this is core right, although note that forces are applied both on both insertion and withdrawal.

@eaglejarl, @Velorien: What happens if we load something of inconsistent strength into a macrator? Say, some wood and some iron pellets. The macerator is strong enough to break the wood, and too weak for the iron pellets.

The GMs heads explode.
 
All of this is core right, although note that forces are applied both on both insertion and withdrawal.

Since no time passes inside the seal, isn't the distinction meaningless?

Edit: Nevermind, it isn't.

How the stresses are applied changes what's stored in the storage dimension. This is indistinguishable to us now, but becomes important if we ever want to make storage scroll replicators and other seals that manipulate the buffer directly.
 
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Aha, and that rearrangement gives the iron a dipole moment that will have a net attraction to the object producing the field it's placed in?
Pretty much. Technicially it depends on where the field is coming from (e.g. a coil, a magnet, or the earth's electromagnetic dynamo), but that's the basic idea. It explains why Iron is attracted to magnets (ferro or electric) and how permanent magnets are created (place the Iron in a field, then "freeze" the atoms in place, normally by changing temperature or pressure, or simply using an incredibly strong magnetic field).
 
I'm still unsure on what Panchipama has agreed to. Keiko said something about a heist, and that is absolutely not where we need summon help. Are we doing the heist, holding on to any contracts who want to stick with Keiko, and then we can use them against Arikada?

That is a good question, and I think we should clear it up before we move on. Lets look at the scene where Keiko makes the deal. Red text is a simplified translation by yours truly.

Kei bowed low. "I fear I have not. The Human Path does not treat its women well. With the exception of female ninja, women are taught to be quiet and meek. I am having trouble finding any who would do honor to the Naraka Rollers. That is not what I'm here for, though." Sorry, the girl gang idea didn't really work out but I don't think you expected it would.

"Oh?" the pangolin said with a sniff. "If you can't even do something that simple, why should the Panchipaama waste time on you?" In that case I get to ask more stuff in return for my help!

"My team and I are planning a heist," Kei said. "We're going to steal from the most dangerous non-ninja organization in the Elemental Nations. We're going to defeat their security, take their goods, and then sell it all back to them and laugh. It will be the first word in the legend of the Pangolin Summoner as I take my place in history. The previous summoner was Ui Isas; he lived centuries ago, yet his name still echoes through our history. Children sit wide-eyed when their elders tell his stories. I intend to be greater. I will write my name across history and the names of my pangolin battle companions will be written beside my own. People still shudder at mention of Ui's Six Scourges; I intend for my name to be different. I and those pangolin who choose to stand beside me will be a beacon, a sign of what women can do and what honor can rest with a missing-nin. We will be a thumb in the eye to authority across the world. We will burn the Hidden Villages to the ground and remake our world in our own image, forging it into a place where women are powers and rulers respect the ruled. Here are some of the virtues and values we will be known for in the future. Note that I'm not giving you specifics, but rather the general feel of the things we are going for.

"I am on the Summon Path today to find companions for this heist. Pandaa and I have made a list of pangolin who would be good choices. I will go to each person on this list and offer them the opportunity to form a one-time pact with me. I will summon them to the Human Path one time, for purposes of the heist. Afterwards they can choose to continue as my companion or to break the pact. I will go home tonight with a shield mate, but I choose to give the Naraka Rollers the first opportunity, as I have so far been unable to honor you as you deserve on the Human Path. So, I ask the great Panchipaama: do you wish to show the Human Path your power or should I go elsewhere?" Fight on my side and you get signal these virtues. Lets start of with one summoning move on from there.

Kei stood straight and tall, arm extended in invitation and eyes locked on those of Panchipaama. Still, she kept watch on the pangolin around them. Her words were being felt; as Mari-sensei had expected, these pangolin were defined by their rebellion against social norms and their loyalty to one another. The scarcity of breeding licenses in pangolin society caused frustration and left a lot of undirected energy swirling around with no outlet. Joining the Summoner on the Human Path, writing yourself into legend...those were words that would play well in this crowd.


Panchipaama's lower jaw dropped open in a pangolin laugh. "This one's got claws!" she said. "Yes. The Panchipaama accepts your offer. I will grant you permission to summon me one time and, if you impress me, we can talk about making it permanent." I agree to get summoned to fight with you once and see what happens.

Keiko never gave specifics to Panchipaama what she wanted to summon her for. As long as it is for something that will help Keiko's legend as a pangolin summoner and doesn't go against the spirit of the speech she just gave, Panchipaama will hold up her side of the deal.

As long as it look like we are even remotely fighting the 'The Man', Panchipaama will be a happy camper. The heist thing was just a small detail somewhere in there and pretty much anything where something is taken from someone can be spun as a heist.
 
So henges can be stacked on top of each other?
E-Did Kogame get hit even 1 time the whole time we were with it? If not that theory has potential...
 
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