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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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strange_person said:
That seems like an implausible / counterproductive sort of assumption, since cereal crops aren't "steady state" sort of plants. They need to go from seed, to sprout, to shoot, to ripe with a new load of seeds - more than dectupling their initial mass - in just a few months. Increasing yield means making that growth curve even smoother and steeper, which means either adding shortcuts, removing complications, or more likely some of both.
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Steady state with respect to chakra levels, making the assumption that the plant's reserves are small compared to its intake and expenditure and so growth of its reserves can be neglected (which I think is reasonable if we're assuming that it has drainable reserves at all). I did wonder whether I should clarify that.

strange_person said:
Mobility and aggression we've heard of from snake rice specifically emerges at harvest-time, which is to say after the rapid growth phase is already complete.
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Citation, please, I can't find any statements to that effect in a brief search. Even if this is the case, and even if the plant's reserves only fill at harvest-time, it would dramatically reduce the utility of the rune to only drain chakra during that brief portion of the cycle.
 
Slow-Mo Summoning
Stunt

Allows a summoner to stretch out the summoning process, casting the jutsu at half-speed. (takes two turns and two standard actions).
The strain of holding the incomplete jutsu together for longer inflicts physical stress equal to the summons CR AB.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Also, can we strike the "Formerly" from Hazou's "(Formerly)Marked For Death" aspect, now that we're properly Marked for Death again?
 
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Left-Hand Mutant said:
Also, can we strike the "Formerly" from Hazou's "(Formerly)Marked For Death" aspect, now that we're properly Marked for Death again?
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Replacement Aspect: Treason Revolving Door
Invoke when: You are committing treason or bribing your way back into your village's good graces
Earn Fate Points when: Your Treason Dragon status means people are inexplicably suspicious of your motivations
 
Can we get "Treason Dragon" to be one of Hazou's canonical titles in the setting pls and thx

Hell maybe that's what Leaf mfs will call us when we inevitably return to flex on em
 
OK, so. We don't know how much time we have left and Oro is not in a position to tell us, unless he's in the loop via Tsunade or something. This is incentive to return to Leaf.

On the other hand, Hazou and co. returning to Leaf will cause a lot of notoriety. Akatsuki will want to interrogate Hazou immediately, which obviously cannot be allowed, which means they will need to be barred from entry, which means immediate escalation to hostilities and tossing up our defensive runes to prepare for siege from Akatsuki. Being inside the force domes and so close to Leaf will make rune research extra dangerous to the point where it will probably be tough to keep doing it. Therefore, I don't think we can return to Leaf until we have every must-have rune as we can't be sure we'll be able to research more. So we need to determine what our must-haves are. Rift Runes, ninja radar, and chakra pool rune are IMO the 3 minimum for an assault force but I still would prefer more...

Alternatively, the moment we return to Leaf we will have to launch the attack immediately before word can spread back to Akatsuki. Either that, or we need to arrange to meet them at Ouzu for the assault. Obviously in this scenario we also will not have more time to research runes, so we'll need to have all our must-haves.

So, keeping this balancing act in mind, what is everyone's must-have before we pull the trigger? For my pet project, I would also like to try Explosive Seal Detonator and/or Paper Destroying Rune.
 
Shrooms said:
OK, so. We don't know how much time we have left and Oro is not in a position to tell us, unless he's in the loop via Tsunade or something. This is incentive to return to Leaf.

On the other hand, Hazou and co. returning to Leaf will cause a lot of notoriety. Akatsuki will want to interrogate Hazou immediately, which obviously cannot be allowed, which means they will need to be barred from entry, which means immediate escalation to hostilities and tossing up our defensive runes to prepare for siege from Akatsuki. Being inside the force domes and so close to Leaf will make rune research extra dangerous to the point where it will probably be tough to keep doing it. Therefore, I don't think we can return to Leaf until we have every must-have rune as we can't be sure we'll be able to research more. So we need to determine what our must-haves are. Rift Runes, ninja radar, and chakra pool rune are IMO the 3 minimum for an assault force but I still would prefer more...

Alternatively, the moment we return to Leaf we will have to launch the attack immediately before word can spread back to Akatsuki. Either that, or we need to arrange to meet them at Ouzu for the assault. Obviously in this scenario we also will not have more time to research runes, so we'll need to have all our must-haves.

So, keeping this balancing act in mind, what is everyone's must-have before we pull the trigger? For my pet project, I would also like to try Explosive Seal Detonator and/or Paper Destroying Rune.
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If I can convince people to agree with it, I would like to check, and if Medium or less research, PLTRs. Even PLTR125 would likely be a pretty significant buff, both numerically and in terms of action economy (guess: extra Supplemental each turn), and the downside of leaking time manipulation to Oro isn't a problem if we attack the rift ourselves (and is less of a problem if Oro's gone missing for real and doesn't show up to the fight). Additionally, there's a significant chance that it might be easier to reach higher accelerations with PLTRs than TRs, in which case higher PLTRs might be doable; PLTR200, likely granting effectively an extra turn each round and an unknown-but-probably-very-high numerical bonus, might be enough to let us face an Akatsuki pair in open combat (though it would be foolhardy to test unless we have to). I don't think it's very likely that that's within reach; but it's possible, and IMO worth spending an FP to test. Not strictly a must-have, though. As far as must-haves go ...

@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien , we're still waiting on the prep day results from Chapter 681, including three major anti-Konan countermeasures (Chakra Shredder Pulse, Kagome's Tears, Let's-Fuck-With-Sealmasters). If possible, could we get these soon-ish? Our confrontation with Akatsuki seems to be approaching quite quickly, and one or more of these might prove crucial.
 
Kyreneryk said:
Steady state with respect to chakra levels, making the assumption that the plant's reserves are small compared to its intake and expenditure and so growth of its reserves can be neglected (which I think is reasonable if we're assuming that it has drainable reserves at all). I did wonder whether I should clarify that.
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My assumption would be most chakra beasts can hold about a day's worth of their own chakra intake capacity, similar to most ninja. Suppose there are two main things a stalk of snake rice can spend chakra on:
1) generic chakra boost, which allows their movement and combat stats to function at all, and
2) Haber-Bosch no Jutsu, which nominally just mitigates malnutrition penalties for nitrogen-poor soil, but from a plant's perspective is a game-breaking training accelerator, because that sort of soil depletion is usually the main thing holding them back.
Snake rice puts Chakra Reserve higher up the skill pyramid, meaning more chakra per day, thus less likely to be chakra-constrained on HBnJ, thus more time unstagnated, more total XP when harvest time rolls around. Higher yield, but also better combat stats and a bigger pool to spend on boosting them - and when training's done, or not currently bottlenecked by supply of fixed nitrogen, there's not much else to do with that chakra besides pick fights.
Probably has a relatively simple thermostat-like script: when chakra reserves are dangerously low, rest and recharge. Partway full, use HBnJ until nitrogen-scarcity penalties are gone, or reserves get low. Completely full? Start boosting, bite the nearest thing that might contain other essential minerals.
If a chakra well rune waits until the rice has spent as much of its daily budget on HBnJ as it's going to, then drains it back below the "pick fights" threshold, the rice will continue spending XP on Chakra Reserve instead of combat skills - because it thinks it's barely got enough to cover local fertilizer needs, wants more of an emergency buffer before going on adventures - thus providing more surplus chakra per day without actually penalizing food yield.
Effectively that'd plug in a third thing for the rice's chakra budget to be spent on, after growth but before aggression, without screwing up the skill pyramid.
Kyreneryk said:
Citation, please, I can't find any statements to that effect in a brief search. Even if this is the case, and even if the plant's reserves only fill at harvest-time, it would dramatically reduce the utility of the rune to only drain chakra during that brief portion of the cycle.
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Can't find the cite either, to my shame. Could've sworn I remembered reading something about timing of the rice harvest being partly dictated by when it was mature enough to uproot itself and start wandering off. Maybe @faflec could help?
 
Velorien said:
The heat and frequent rain had accelerated the growth of the rice plants, and the farmers were falling behind. They had only gotten to this field today, and the plants were already on the cusp of adulthood. In a few days or a week the coleoptile, currently soft and blunt, would finish hardening and sharpening while the rootclaws would become sturdy enough to support locomotion. If the crew didn't get the plants pithed and stripped soon then the entire field might walk away and there'd be nothing left for next year. Plus, these plants had been harvested for generations; everyone knew perfectly well that if they were ever allowed to fully mature then they would seek out their tormentors for retribution.
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Shrooms said:
OK, so. We don't know how much time we have left and Oro is not in a position to tell us, unless he's in the loop via Tsunade or something. This is incentive to return to Leaf.
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It's probably worth having Mari infiltrate a few other places looking for information first before we commit to anything. She's literally the most competent person alive at her job and we're criminally underutilizing her
 
Shrooms said:
So, keeping this balancing act in mind, what is everyone's must-have before we pull the trigger? For my pet project, I would also like to try Explosive Seal Detonator and/or Paper Destroying Rune.
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Mari has said that Leaf would take us back with what we already have, but... I'm uncertain if we have enough power. The recent update makes me concerned that explosives (even of the Runic varieties) won't be enough, even when combined with Storm Rune and our various debuff seals.

At a minimum, I'd like to try and get Chakra Rune up and running (more chakra can only ever be a good thing, especially with Zoo Rush).
 
Shrooms said:
OK, so. We don't know how much time we have left and Oro is not in a position to tell us, unless he's in the loop via Tsunade or something. This is incentive to return to Leaf.

On the other hand, Hazou and co. returning to Leaf will cause a lot of notoriety. Akatsuki will want to interrogate Hazou immediately, which obviously cannot be allowed, which means they will need to be barred from entry, which means immediate escalation to hostilities and tossing up our defensive runes to prepare for siege from Akatsuki. Being inside the force domes and so close to Leaf will make rune research extra dangerous to the point where it will probably be tough to keep doing it. Therefore, I don't think we can return to Leaf until we have every must-have rune as we can't be sure we'll be able to research more. So we need to determine what our must-haves are. Rift Runes, ninja radar, and chakra pool rune are IMO the 3 minimum for an assault force but I still would prefer more...

Alternatively, the moment we return to Leaf we will have to launch the attack immediately before word can spread back to Akatsuki. Either that, or we need to arrange to meet them at Ouzu for the assault. Obviously in this scenario we also will not have more time to research runes, so we'll need to have all our must-haves.

So, keeping this balancing act in mind, what is everyone's must-have before we pull the trigger? For my pet project, I would also like to try Explosive Seal Detonator and/or Paper Destroying Rune.
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I think getting a scrying rune to check on the rift site should be a priority.
 
strange_person said:
My assumption would be most chakra beasts can hold about a day's worth of their own chakra intake capacity, similar to most ninja. Suppose there are two main things a stalk of snake rice can spend chakra on:
1) generic chakra boost, which allows their movement and combat stats to function at all, and
2) Haber-Bosch no Jutsu, which nominally just mitigates malnutrition penalties for nitrogen-poor soil, but from a plant's perspective is a game-breaking training accelerator, because that sort of soil depletion is usually the main thing holding them back.
Snake rice puts Chakra Reserve higher up the skill pyramid, meaning more chakra per day, thus less likely to be chakra-constrained on HBnJ, thus more time unstagnated, more total XP when harvest time rolls around. Higher yield, but also better combat stats and a bigger pool to spend on boosting them - and when training's done, or not currently bottlenecked by supply of fixed nitrogen, there's not much else to do with that chakra besides pick fights.
Probably has a relatively simple thermostat-like script: when chakra reserves are dangerously low, rest and recharge. Partway full, use HBnJ until nitrogen-scarcity penalties are gone, or reserves get low. Completely full? Start boosting, bite the nearest thing that might contain other essential minerals.
If a chakra well rune waits until the rice has spent as much of its daily budget on HBnJ as it's going to, then drains it back below the "pick fights" threshold, the rice will continue spending XP on Chakra Reserve instead of combat skills - because it thinks it's barely got enough to cover local fertilizer needs, wants more of an emergency buffer before going on adventures - thus providing more surplus chakra per day without actually penalizing food yield.
Effectively that'd plug in a third thing for the rice's chakra budget to be spent on, after growth but before aggression, without screwing up the skill pyramid.
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You are making questionable assumptions.
  1. Plant body structure probably means that plants have much less space for chakra coils (since photosynthesis incentivizes them to maximize surface area and therefore much of their body is probably thin) and they therefore likely have less storage capacity than ninja relative to their intake.
  2. You're assuming that the plant pulses its nitrogen fixation technique instead of having it constantly active at a level low enough that chakra intake can sustain it (in which case it would be expected to sit at nearly full reserves and would likely suppress any growth expenditures in response to chakra depletion; compare to energy charge in cells).
  3. You're assuming that once sufficient nitrogen is available, the plant has nothing else to spend chakra on. Examples of additional sources of expenditure:
    1. Phosphate Creation Technique (chakra is demonstrably capable of creating matter ex nihilo).
      1. Ditto for other scarce inorganic nutrients.
    2. Chakrasynthesis Technique (using chakra directly to produce NADPH/ATP and enable carbon fixation).
  4. You're attempting to model plant growth using XP. (I feel that I should not need to explain why this is questionable.)

strange_person said:
Can't find the cite either, to my shame. Could've sworn I remembered reading something about timing of the rice harvest being partly dictated by when it was mature enough to uproot itself and start wandering off. Maybe @faflec could help?
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@faflec has kindly provided the citation (thanks, by the way), and it does demonstrate what you claim, though there are manifold more impactful ways we could make civilians' lives easier if we were willing to use runes to do it (and as I said, taking chakra only during harvest-phase does dramatically reduce the available chakra the rune would supply).
 
RandomOTP said:
Mari has said that Leaf would take us back with what we already have, but... I'm uncertain if we have enough power. The recent update makes me concerned that explosives (even of the Runic varieties) won't be enough, even when combined with Storm Rune and our various debuff seals.
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She doesn't know Naruto straight up ordered us to do this, so I'm not worried about not getting accepted back, I'm just worried about losing the fight afterwards

Cariyaga said:
I think getting a scrying rune to check on the rift site should be a priority.
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Do we have any other ideas for implementation if "show hologram that we can pan around with a control scheme" doesn't work out?
 
Shrooms said:
She doesn't know Naruto straight up ordered us to do this, so I'm not worried about not getting accepted back, I'm just worried about losing the fight afterwards


Do we have any other ideas for implementation if "show hologram that we can pan around with a control scheme" doesn't work out?
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Sure. "Track a given output from the Ninjadar rune"

e: For this particular use case it's not actually a problem at all to be limited in tracking in such a way, 'cause the idea's just to follow them around until we get confirmation on who's on site. It'd be a little faster with the abillity to scan around for conversations, but not that much longer, I'm sure.
 
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Sir Stompy said:
Not if Orochimaru stole it. Then it still being guarded is very relevant
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Right, so I guess it's worth doing a ninjadar run if possible when we research that but it doesn't really reduce the relative-value of scrying in the eventuality where that doesn't pan out.

Also I kind of expect -- the site to still be inhabited, even if Oro stole it? It's a holy site for Jashinists now.
 
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