Separately:

I think it's worth considering how fucked Leaf would be if we came back with varying levels of armaments. For instance, situations where we finish, prior to Akatsuki finishing rift research:

  • Only Force Dome Runes (take for granted that they function through the ground)
  • Force Domes + Moderate effect runes (no instant kills for any of them, medium-to-moderate effects.)
  • Force Domes + Shut Down Akatsuki's Specialties runes
 
I mean as a means to amp up the chakra difusion effect. Basically makes it harder to mold chakra because of interference, like you're an academy student again
I am very confused as to why you are wording it this way. If you're just outputting interference to make chakra effects harder to sustain, that's not the chakra diffusion effect, at all.

Regardless, I am skeptical this approach would work either, see Cannai trying to stop Hazou from using Sub. He was unable to and Hazou didn't even notice. Although that is internal. But Cannai's a Boss on his own territory.

Outputting interference seems easier to do than messing with chakra directly. I am now marginally more interested in this prep day. But I'm not calling it anything related to chakra diffusion, that will confuse the QMs and other voters about what the rune does.
Probably not all of them, but I want to prep-day at least two different mental effects, to gauge whether it's something runes are well-disposed to doing. I have a strong preference for testing Onsighters, so that's one. Dunno about the second one. Distressers, probably?
Yeah I am very very skeptical about this too. Hazou doesn't know genjutsu. This is about as likely to work as biorunes without prior knowledge.

If the sight based triggering doesn't work, why are we continuing down this road rather than giving it up for a good try? Half of Akatsuki can sense chakra and will never be taken by surprise this way.

I admit the Dragon's Roar one still seems interesting. I'll add that (eventually)
 
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I am very confused as to why you are wording it this way. If you're just outputting interference to make chakra effects harder to sustain, that's not the chakra diffusion effect, at all.

Regardless, I am skeptical this approach would work either, see Cannai trying to stop Hazou from using Sub. He was unable to and Hazou didn't even notice.

Outputting interference seems easier to do than messing with chakra directly. I am nit marginally more interested in this prep day. But I'm not calling it anything related to chakra diffusion that will confuse the QMs and other voters about what the rune does.
I do still intend it to be amping up the chakra diffusion effect, I just don't really know how chakra works in-world so I have no idea what metaphor is appropriate.
 
  • Force Domes + Shut Down Akatsuki's Specialties runes
I can't help but imagine:

KISAME: Nice try. You may have disabled the Sharingan, but my specialties aren't the kind you can just turn off.

HAZŌ: Yes, we can. [activates rune]

Kisame falls to his knees. He rises a handsome, long-haired man with smooth, tan skin.

KISAME: What did you do?!

HAZŌ: I disabled sharks.

KISAME: ???

HAZŌ: While this rune is active, there is no such thing as a shark. I don't know what that scroll of yours summons now, but I bet you don't have any contracts with them.

Kisame takes the Mild mental Consequence "No Sharks?", the Moderate mental Consequence "No Sharks" and the Severe mental Consequence "No Sharks!". Kisame is Taken Out.
 
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I do still intend it to be amping up the chakra diffusion effect, I just don't really know how chakra works in-world so I have no idea what metaphor is appropriate.
Then phrasing it in terms of interference seems incredibly misguided. Diffusion has nothing to do with other chakra coming along and interfering with active chakra effects. It sounds like there are two ideas here being proposed at the same time

Chakra EMP
Chakra Diffusion

I am more interested in the EMP
 
Then phrasing it in terms of interference seems incredibly misguided. Diffusion has nothing to do with other chakra coming along and interfering with active chakra effects. It sounds like there are two ideas here being proposed at the same time

Chakra EMP
Chakra Diffusion

I am more interested in the EMP
I'm interested in both, though a chakra EMP that disabled active chakra effects would be rad, too.

That said: I'm not actually sure that's true? You're speaking very definitely about an effect we know very little about out of character.
 
I'm interested in both, though a chakra EMP that disabled active chakra effects would be rad, too.

That said: I'm not actually sure that's true? You're speaking very definitely about an effect we know very little about out of character.
I am assuming that the QMs chose a descriptive name rather than something unrelated. But flip it around, if it's more like an EMP, why wouldn't they call it the chakra interference effect?

I'm not saying it follows the same mathematical laws as diffusion does IRL, but I do think it's safe to assume that it's something like "chakra spreading out as it gets farther from the caster makes it much harder to keep the ninjutsu effect going"

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

Is that generally correct? Hazou struggled somewhat with the chakra diffusion effect while making Chakdar 2.0 so he might have an opinion on this. I want to make sure he's thinking along roughly the same lines.

That is, that chakra diffusion is more about chakra spreading out in space and not chakra interfering with active ninjutsu/genjutsu and disrupting their structure.
 
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The thing about diffusion as a analagous to IRL is that, well, IRL we have to have specific radio bands or there's lots of crosstalk that makes it effectively-nonfunctional due to interference. Making a lot of interference, hence, can be said to enhance the diffusion of radio waves. At least, that's why I've been talking about that as a possible way to make it work.
 
The thing about diffusion as a analagous to IRL is that, well, IRL we have to have specific radio bands or there's lots of crosstalk that makes it effectively-nonfunctional due to interference. Making a lot of interference, hence, can be said to enhance the diffusion of radio waves. At least, that's why I've been talking about that as a possible way to make it work.
Okay...so that's interference and not diffusion. Diffusion is something else. I am assuming words have their meanings and that they are being used correctly by the QMs, and if they meant something different they would have written something different.

Interference and diffusion are unrelated.
 
Please suggest your ideas to me and I will add them if I like them enough to do a prep day on them.
Explosive rune without runic drag.

It's been suggested by the QMs that removing runic drag might be possible. If removing runic drag just raises the difficulty similar to adding chakra adhesion activation then we don't need to waste time chaining veterancy on rune and seal range extenders.

Explosive rune is our simplest rune so it should be the easiest to modify. It's also immediately more effective if it can be thrown or even just dropped from high above the rift site.
 
Explosive rune without runic drag.

It's been suggested by the QMs that removing runic drag might be possible. If removing runic drag just raises the difficulty similar to adding chakra adhesion activation then we don't need to waste time chaining veterancy on rune and seal range extenders.

Explosive rune is our simplest rune so it should be the easiest to modify. It's also immediately more effective if it can be thrown or even just dropped from high above the rift site.
Already did it boss 🫡
Prep Portable-Explosive Rune. Difficulty Result: [TODO]
 
What about a Rune that causes unconsciousness in a massive area? If everyone or almost everyone is asleep, the chakraless execution method ought to work.
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

With respect to difficulty checks/prep days on runes:

Are the results from these closer to "The TN gets decided and then it gets put in a box ('Well within', 'Maybe', 'Beyond') that is vaguely near that TN and its quite likely that the middle category has a lot of things that are absolutely mechanically easy and a lot of things that are absolutely beyond Hazou's reach/ impossible"?

I am attempting to determine whether "Do prep days blindly and hope for the best" is even going to give us results that are more accurate than not half the time. If they aren't accurate to a wildly large degree, then I note that just saying "Yes, these are not accurate to a wildly large degree. We do not understand why you guys are treating them as such."/ "They're not even strictly deterministic guys. You shouldn't proceed as if these are anything but the vaguest ballpark estimates by someone who has no idea what they are doing."/etc. will not give us any information on the actual TNs but it will stop us from pursuing "Here are the 100 rune ideas we are doing prep days on this month, we gleefully await the 3-4 nukes or superbuffs that are deemed trivially difficult" as a general strategy.

I think this clarification -- should it be necessary-- would greatly improve this experience on both the player-side and GM-side without giving us any meaningfully actionable information.
Seal difficulty estimates are randomized: a seal rated "chuunin" could be any of 40 different TNs. Rune difficulty estimates are even more randomized.

Some runes that are genuinely incredibly easy will be marked as "well within", other runes that are completely impossible will be marked as "beyond", and the majority of them could potentially be any of the three difficulty check results. While the result you get is directionally indicative -- your median estimate for the TN of a "well within" rune should be lower than a "beyond" rune -- all these estimates should be taken with a healthy dose of salt (wait no not like that).

Ultimately, if you want more accurate difficulty estimates (at least, accurate to the level of Hazou's seal estimates), you will need to both invest in Primordial Sealing and research more runes, especially of varying difficulties.
 
Separately:

I think it's worth considering how fucked Leaf would be if we came back with varying levels of armaments. For instance, situations where we finish, prior to Akatsuki finishing rift research:

  • Only Force Dome Runes (take for granted that they function through the ground)
  • Force Domes + Moderate effect runes (no instant kills for any of them, medium-to-moderate effects.)
  • Force Domes + Shut Down Akatsuki's Specialties runes

It depends in large part on how much the Akatsuki is on a warpath.
"Hazou returns with a bunch of super seal-tech that he didn't want Itachi to steal" is leagues different "Hazou returns with a bunch of rift tech to (presumably) kill the Akatuski".
Akatsuki on a warpath? Leaf is largerly done for unless we can assure a sure win. The village cannot sustain heavy casualties with all the other villages ready to strike at the first sign of weakness and even if the Akatsuki cannot assault us directly, they can slowly bleed us by assassinating high value targets every time they go on a mission.
Hell, if the Akatsuki wants to feel spicy, the second we unleash the Force Domes they can do a Whirlpool and denounce our strange high tier sealing(and maybe offer the other village a piece of the pie if they help).
 
Seal difficulty estimates are randomized: a seal rated "chuunin" could be any of 40 different TNs. Rune difficulty estimates are even more randomized.

Some runes that are genuinely incredibly easy will be marked as "well within", other runes that are completely impossible will be marked as "beyond", and the majority of them could potentially be any of the three difficulty check results. While the result you get is directionally indicative -- your median estimate for the TN of a "well within" rune should be lower than a "beyond" rune -- all these estimates should be taken with a healthy dose of salt (wait no not like that).

Ultimately, if you want more accurate difficulty estimates (at least, accurate to the level of Hazou's seal estimates), you will need to both invest in Primordial Sealing and research more runes, especially of varying difficulties.

Thank you!! :)
 
@Sir Stompy
Did cariyaga's 2nd post motivate
To be clear, I'm having this conversation because I don't understand what vibes you're operating off of that thinks runes can't do things of the appropriate scale and if you're right about that, I'd like to know, and if you're not, I'd also like to know. Not intending to be annoying needling at your decision-making here or anything.
motivate you to respond to his original post?
Runes are capable of defenses and time-based shenanigans on a combat scale, what makes you think other esoteric stuff wouldn't work on a combat scale?
If so, in what way did it do that?
Was it by reminding you about his original post? If yes, are you fine with periodically occasionally being reminded about unanswered questions?
Was it the clarification that he sought further understanding instead of needling you? If so, what is the difference between the two?
 
Okay I'm compiling a list of prep days in rough order of my interest so I can remember what we still need to do.

Please suggest your ideas to me and I will add them if I like them enough to do a prep day on them.

  • Iron Earth Runes - intended to mimic the crystal cave's effect and disrupt tunneling in a wide area.
  • Kamikaze - aka Fail-Safe Superchillers
  • Superheaters - the opposite of Superchillers
  • Oro's 3 Rift runes - needs no explanation
  • Space-Contracting Rune - @Noumero 's idea - intended to shorten distances to make applying runic effects less difficult.
  • @Shrooms 's Fire Eating Pulse Seal - like Jiraiya's Fire Eating Array but worn around the body and activated with a CATEARS
  • Force Shields - FW variant that makes a hemisphere of force, intended to block ninjutsu/RW/angry ninja activated w/ CATEARS
  • Seals that carry Runic Effects
  • Chakra Diffusion Enhancement Runes - intended to disrupt external chakra manipulation.
  • Sight Triggered Explosive Runes
Pulsed Lingering Temporal Runes:
Speaking of prep days, I'd like to remind people that we have yet to do a prep day for Pulsed Lingering Temporal Runes; description reproduced below for convenience.

snip

There has previously been enough support for these to make it into a winning plan, twice in fact. Now that we have DoB and some extra PS levels, I think it's more likely than ever that PLTRs will turn out to be within Hazō's capabilities. I previously expected them to be 'could maybe do' but thought there was enough of a chance that they were 'well within' to be worth doing; with Hazō's new PS skill, I now expect a >50% chance that at least the weak PLTRs are 'well within'. Even PLTR125 potentially allows for an extra Supplemental action each turn, if we assume a Standard is equivalent to at least two Supplementals, along with an unknown but potentially significant numerical boost; this could significantly increase Leaf's chances against Akatsuki in direct ninja combat.
@Sir Stompy Pinging you in case you missed the above. (I would assume you'd turned it down, but you've responded to other ideas you rejected so I want to make sure you haven't just not seen this one.)
 
Huh new idea, EMP got me thinking. Can we get a chakra pulse by wrapping an explosive rune in substrate? Substrate is conductive to chakra, so it's analogous to the way they did a magic EMP at the climax of Project Lawful (spellsilver shell over a 1 kt explosion)

We probably need bigger explosives for this to work. Not 1 ton equivalents, but 1 kiloton equivalents

@Sir Stompy
Did cariyaga's 2nd post motivate

motivate you to respond to his original post?

If so, in what way did it do that?
Was it by reminding you about his original post? If yes, are you fine with periodically occasionally being reminded about unanswered questions?
Was it the clarification that he sought further understanding instead of needling you? If so, what is the difference between the two?
Not really sure what you're asking here but if you have questions for me pending I probably just missed them. Go ahead and ask.
@Sir Stompy Pinging you in case you missed the above. (I would assume you'd turned it down, but you've responded to other ideas you rejected so I want to make sure you haven't just not seen this one.)
Sorry I forgot to respond! I like this idea a lot but it makes me squirrelly for a couple reasons.

1) Replicating sealing/runic failures is crazy nobody does it, every time we suggest it to Hazoupilot he refuses to do it
2) It sounds really hard!
3) However, if we can get it to work it would be amazing. So I'll put it on, low-priority.
 
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Thinking about Kei's warning about Temporal Runes not being directly useful, and thinking about the effects of the minor runic failures Hazō produced while researching TR125 -


- I had a rune idea that I'd like to submit for consideration.

Pulsed Lingering Temporal Rune
Rune

On activation, generates a pulse that affects living beings within a small radius. Beings affected experience accelerated time, as if within the field of a Temporal Rune, except that the effect is tied to them rather than to an area of space, similar to the effects of Hazō's prototypes for TR125. The effect wears off over a period of [time; hours to a day would probably be ideal, but depends on what Hazō can get].


The motivation for this is that it allows Hazō to take the veterancy he's acquiring for Temporal Runes and apply it directly to an anti-Akatsuki weapon, one which doesn't require luring them into the radius of effect of a rune to work. Even a 25% increase in speed might translate to a fairly major boost to combat rolls, and a 100% or greater speedup could potentially allow Leaf to overwhelm Akatsuki with conventional ninja forces. Even if it didn't work on shadow clones (which is possible - the first incident didn't affect Hazō's clone, and while he hypothesizes it's because he has chakra I think a plausible alternative explanation is that it's because he was a chakra construct and not made of real matter) it could still dramatically enhance the combat abilities of Leaf jōnin in general. Maybe even chuunin, if the speedup could be pushed high enough.

I don't know whether this would work. The effects of the minor runic failures listed above suggest that it might, but they are also sealing failures and it might be much much harder to replicate their effects in a controlled manner. However, I think it might merit a prep day to find out.

Optional accessory runes:

Temporal Normalization Rune
Rune

On activation, wipes the effect of any PLTRs from anything within a small radius.

Continuous Lingering Temporal Rune
Rune

On activation, generates a field which creates a lingering speedup effect on anything within. Like PLTR runes, except that the application is gradual while targets stay within the rune's field (i.e. being there for 1 second might create a 5% persistent speedup, 2 seconds might create 10%, etc. up to a maximum value), so people could walk in and out of the rune's field to get the benefit instead of having to be crowded around it when it activates.

+1 for this Time Rune modification
Also those ones:

Probably not all of them, but I want to prep-day at least two different mental effects, to gauge whether it's something runes are well-disposed to doing. I have a strong preference for testing Onsighters, so that's one. Dunno about the second one. Distressers, probably?
i strongly suggest prepping only runes that are specified to be "as easy as possible" if you're trying to gauge the difficulty of the entire genjutsu Rune tech tree.
 
Sorry I forgot to respond! I like this idea a lot but it makes me squirrelly for a couple reasons.

1) Replicating sealing/runic failures is crazy nobody does it, every time we suggest it to Hazoupilot he refuses to do it
2) It sounds really hard!
3) However, if we can get it to work it would be amazing. So I'll put it on, low-priority.
Thanks! Maybe third time will be the charm for it actually getting prepped …

To respond to your specific concerns:
1) Replicating sealing/runic failures is crazy nobody does it, every time we suggest it to Hazoupilot he refuses to do it
You've mentioned this concern before, and I agree it's an entirely legitimate one. However, I think the fact that it's only replicating minor failures (I.e. from incomplete prototypes, not failed rolls), and then only in a weakened and controlled form, makes it fall outside of that taboo. Plus, I'm pretty sure the taboo applies primarily to 'trying to make a seal that fails in exactly the same way as last time' and not 'trying to make a different seal that produces the same effect as a sealing failure'; after all, the Rift was created by a sealing failure and our party has been perfectly happy about planning to manipulate or mimic that.

2) It sounds really hard!
It may indeed turn out to be too hard. However, I think the fact that two prototypes for TR125 both produced this kind of effect suggests that it may be a thing that the underlying rules of chakra/runecrafting/time permit without a huge amount of complexity of engineering (like how fire is easily permitted and easy to create). Therefore, I think there's a pretty good chance that PLTRs will turn out not to be hugely harder than TRs, and even if they're significantly harder, our new PS score can handle that.
 
Make a Rune that raises the Global TN for all sealing research.

We can out-FOOM them.
HAZŌ (prep day): Yup, this seems well within my abilities.

HAZŌ (week 1): The first prototype test was successful, but I feel like my research has slowed down since.

HAZŌ (week 2): The second prototype test was successful, but for some reason I'm burning a lot of FP just to keep up the pace.

HAZŌ (week 3): The third prototype test was successful, but I'm starting to get a bad feeling.

NOBURI (week 4): Welp.
 
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