Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Seems like a good idea for our next unstagnation. If we can get 2 in a row here that'll be enough time to research some bangers.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Stunt: Eh, I Got Used to It
Cost: 15XP
Whenever the QM forgets to account for the -1 from Pangolin Conditioning Jutsu or the -2 from Substitution use, the incorrect rolls become the real rolls.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
> Hazou gets slightly more muscular
> [Ino has entered the chat]
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
[X] Action Plan: A Murdering of Leopards
It seems really plausible that if we dig in, we're going to simultaneously face 2+ groups of the same size as we attacked just now. Like, just going off their tactics, the following seems likely: group A arrives and hangs back using stealth, waiting for an opportunity; group B arrives and attacks; group A treats this as an opportunity and joins in.
In addition, given that we've demonstrated our threat level, it seems likely that the distribution of leopards we'd be facing now would be skewed towards jounin and away from genin. I wouldn't be surprised if eaglejarl now rolls a 1d6 with {1,2,3} = jounin, {4, 5} = chuunin, {6} = genin. By the same token, if we won't be facing jounin-heavy groups, we'd be likely facing larger groups.
Like, leopards have their flaws, but I assume they have a basic ability to estimate the strength of their opponents. They won't spontaneously organize a tailored response to us, but the caliber of the opponents we'd be facing would go up.
Digging in seems prospectively suicidal. Yet Cancurunchu suggested it. Perhaps it's personal for him; perhaps a raiding party killed his loved ones, so now his judgement is clouded/skewed. Or something along those lines.
Which is all to say, I'd suggest pushing either for a retreat or for the "attack a camp" strategy.
Also, I'd appreciate putting in something regarding being on a hair-trigger to unsummon if the possibility of taking a Severe seems high. E. g., if there are 2+ enemy jounin engaging us or something. I'd say "unsummon mid-battle, leaving all of these dogs to die like a coward, and suffer a hit to our relationship with Cannai" is a massively better outcome than us getting a Severe right now.
Ask them for the origin story of the Seventh Path as taught in Leopard. We must keep amassing Forbidden Lore so that we may interpolate the truth from the contradictory tales. (I am not serious.)
I'm not entirely sure we can trust his judgement.
It seems really plausible that if we dig in, we're going to simultaneously face 2+ groups of the same size as we attacked just now. Like, just going off their tactics, the following seems likely: group A arrives and hangs back using stealth, waiting for an opportunity; group B arrives and attacks; group A treats this as an opportunity and joins in.
In addition, given that we've demonstrated our threat level, it seems likely that the distribution of leopards we'd be facing now would be skewed towards jounin and away from genin. I wouldn't be surprised if eaglejarl now rolls a 1d6 with {1,2,3} = jounin, {4, 5} = chuunin, {6} = genin. By the same token, if we won't be facing jounin-heavy groups, we'd be likely facing larger groups.
Like, leopards have their flaws, but I assume they have a basic ability to estimate the strength of their opponents. They won't spontaneously organize a tailored response to us, but the caliber of the opponents we'd be facing would go up.
Digging in seems prospectively suicidal. Yet Cancurunchu suggested it. Perhaps it's personal for him; perhaps a raiding party killed his loved ones, so now his judgement is clouded/skewed. Or something along those lines.
Which is all to say, I'd suggest pushing either for a retreat or for the "attack a camp" strategy.
Also, I'd appreciate putting in something regarding being on a hair-trigger to unsummon if the possibility of taking a Severe seems high. E. g., if there are 2+ enemy jounin engaging us or something. I'd say "unsummon mid-battle, leaving all of these dogs to die like a coward, and suffer a hit to our relationship with Cannai" is a massively better outcome than us getting a Severe right now.
I'm hoping the intel would help here. Since if there are a lot of Leopards in the area/strong fighters yeah it makes obvious sense to move. But yes, an edit seems prudent here.
Unsummoning can only be done as a Supplemental, which is non-Reflexive. So I can say to Unsummon if we take a Medium or worse. I think that's as good as we'll get here.
- Location
- Europe
If the Leopards are really that arrogant then Hazou should attract attention.
The survivors might try to contact the stronger ones close by, not just for a chance for revenge but also gain some prestige.
Hyōkamumono just lost his strong older brother Hyōtsume. As far as I can see he wasn't really wounded.
And Hyōsupotto, the second strongest survived with minor injuries. He should be experienced enough to link up with the right people.
So they are going to be prepared against a Summoner, seals and 8 dogs.
The survivors might try to contact the stronger ones close by, not just for a chance for revenge but also gain some prestige.
Hyōkamumono just lost his strong older brother Hyōtsume. As far as I can see he wasn't really wounded.
And Hyōsupotto, the second strongest survived with minor injuries. He should be experienced enough to link up with the right people.
So they are going to be prepared against a Summoner, seals and 8 dogs.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Yeah, I know. I was suggesting unsummoning from a losing battle before it even starts, or on our turn mid-battle if said battle is clearly going south (even if Hazou personally didn't yet suffer any Consequences).
We're pretty likely to go last in the turn order. So it should be clear by then to Unsummon or not. I'm not sure how to phrase this without sounding like a coward though....
I wonder, would it be worth putting in a line about Cannai's advice to Hazō?
Might be useful to mention if Cancurunchu is resistant to the idea of moving, although the plans involving staying still and trapping the area that people have raised sound highly plausible; the Leopards haven't yet seen Hazō use actual traps, and without experience with seals they may not make the leap from "can equip Dogs with invisible cutting edges" to "can set up large traps using invisible cutting edges".
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
So... that strength of the pack jutsu would be pretty busted if Naruto could use it with his clones, right?
Just thinking, Pangolin armor jutsu + force armor + strength of the pack... If we could get some buff rounds for him and be able to deploy him then he might be much more effective.
Could we see if there is anything we would be willing to offer for Naruto to get PCJ with permission?
Just thinking, Pangolin armor jutsu + force armor + strength of the pack... If we could get some buff rounds for him and be able to deploy him then he might be much more effective.
Could we see if there is anything we would be willing to offer for Naruto to get PCJ with permission?
- Location
- Europe
Well the missions goal is to kill 12 of them, waiting for a response force might send a strong message itself, but if the close by groups are now weaker,
Then it's time to strike now or just retreat and find other groups.
But Cancurunchu probably just said that because eaglejarl had to end the chapter somehow. He already changed his mind about hunting the stragglers down.
Then it's time to strike now or just retreat and find other groups.
But Cancurunchu probably just said that because eaglejarl had to end the chapter somehow. He already changed his mind about hunting the stragglers down.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No worries, I didn't take it as such. Thanks for checking.
This isn't a justice thing, this is a punitive raid. The whole purpose of being here is to kill leopards and it doesn't really matter if they personally did anything or not.
This is pretty much the way it already is. :>
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Cancurunchu is pissed off and post-battle jazzed up right now, but Hazō thinks there's a good chance he'll be willing to change his mind given a minute or two to calm down.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Clan Gouketsu is probably in pretty good shape. Physique isn't really a major stat priority for most individuals, and Hazou basically gets a free gym day every day from PCJ, so I imagine that he's rocking a pretty solid amount of lean muscle on the meatsack, compared to everyone else in his age bracket that isn't Rock Lee, or anyone that has literally no other options to train up.
(I note that we're about 1200 XP away from Physique 40, which gives us an extra spot on the good 'ol stress track. Decent upgrade.)
I wonder if PCJ stacks with like, a gravity room or something. Not at all a priority, but its something to consider.
Also, uh, while I'm at it, have we considered that a ninja's XP rate is boosted by large amounts of concentrated chakra? We should whip up those Chakra Density Runes (NB: I think these are called capacitors or something but that is a silly chemistry brained name that we should probably rework
) anyway since its a a rune we can do that interacts with chakra stuff, and veterancy.Speaking of while I'm at it:
@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien
I think Paper said on Discord that the intent was roughly "This would apply to anything that counts as a seal", and I know that it says explicitly that the user can use the stunt to understand "all seals", but do you think we can get an edit on this portion of it so that it's clearer to all of us (including future!me, who is bad at remembering caveats like that)?
Proposed edit:
(Sorry about the second poke on this, I hope it's not annoying. Let me know if it is!)
thought cannai expected us to kill evildoers. i feel disappointed in him.
even if cannai doesn't care, we can still act with justice and limit our targets to evildoers. he wanted us to kill 12. that does not prevent us from capturing and releasing others that aren't part of that 12. it just means we need to find more leopards to make up that 12
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Okay just to be clear, I'm not trying to raise a big stink about this or change anybody's mind. But since you asked, I'll answer.
I cannot recall, in 663 previous chapters of a story where our protagonist focuses heavily on sealing, ever reading anything that indicates that activating a seal is difficult, sensitive or requires care. Creating seals is difficult, infusing them quite dangerous, but that's supposed to be the hard part. Once done, you can give a seal to anybody and they can activate it without issue. Queue the frequent sounds of explosions on the Goketsu estate while genin use them liberally to preform chores. There's never been a description of somebody struggling to activate a seal. Nobody has ever had to train themselves to learn the 'seal activation pattern'. There's no roll involved, no stunt that must be purchased.
Yet It's described as being so delicate it takes a second or two even for experienced sealmasters, so presumably it should take even longer for untrained genin who might even fail to activate a seal sometimes, in the heat of combat, but that's not something we've ever seen. I don't believe there are any mechanics invented yet that account for the 'sensitive and delicate' activation process of most seals, beyond the basic 'hey you can't activate infinite seals in a single round, so it takes an action' which can be attributed to a mixture of common sense, sorting through your pile of seals, and throwing, positioning, or otherwise placing your seal for effect. Nobody has ever failed to activate a seal, or taken twice as long to do it due to a lack of practice.
Previously, there was a scene of Honoka, an academy student who could barely feel her chakra, being guided by Kagome to unseal stuff from a summoning scroll. I haven't gone back to read the chapter, but I very much doubt Kagome told her to guide her chakra into a delicate and specific pattern. I'm fairly sure of the opposite, actually, that all Honoka had to do was move her chakra at all, and that's why Kagome used activating the seal as a step towards getting Honoka to be aware of her chakra system.
Activating seals, to the best of my knowledge before this update, was extremely simple. You give it chakra, and the actual design of the seal takes care of the rest. As a response to the mechanics of a single seal being a bit faster to activate, however, I feel like the entire system of sealing has just received a nerf in response. This is far from a common-sense read of the mechanics, imo.
All of what I said in the paragraphs above are just context for the following:
Yet It's described as being so delicate it takes a second or two even for experienced sealmasters, so presumably it should take even longer for untrained genin who might even fail to activate a seal sometimes, in the heat of combat, but that's not something we've ever seen. I don't believe there are any mechanics invented yet that account for the 'sensitive and delicate' activation process of most seals, beyond the basic 'hey you can't activate infinite seals in a single round, so it takes an action' which can be attributed to a mixture of common sense, sorting through your pile of seals, and throwing, positioning, or otherwise placing your seal for effect. Nobody has ever failed to activate a seal, or taken twice as long to do it due to a lack of practice.
Previously, there was a scene of Honoka, an academy student who could barely feel her chakra, being guided by Kagome to unseal stuff from a summoning scroll. I haven't gone back to read the chapter, but I very much doubt Kagome told her to guide her chakra into a delicate and specific pattern. I'm fairly sure of the opposite, actually, that all Honoka had to do was move her chakra at all, and that's why Kagome used activating the seal as a step towards getting Honoka to be aware of her chakra system.
Activating seals, to the best of my knowledge before this update, was extremely simple. You give it chakra, and the actual design of the seal takes care of the rest. As a response to the mechanics of a single seal being a bit faster to activate, however, I feel like the entire system of sealing has just received a nerf in response. This is far from a common-sense read of the mechanics, imo.
All of what I said in the paragraphs above are just context for the following:
- I confidently asserted that activating seals was as simple as pushing chakra towards it, and was coincidentally refuted in no uncertain terms by the update not long afterwards,
- This happened shortly after an argument about battlefield tactics being fairly useless in the face of mechanical necessity.
I hope you are satisfied with my explanation, and are able to understand my position even if you disagree with it. I can already predict various counter-arguments. Please don't bother, I assure you it is unnecessary. Life goes on, and so will the quest. I'm just explaining why my reaction was negative. Thanks for your time, have a nice day.
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- Location
- Texas
It has come up before. Seventh Path citizens require training in order to activate seals. That is why Hazo did not have any of the Dogs this update activate seals, they don't know how to.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Thank you for the information, but I'm not interested in trying to make anybody defend or change their position, nor would an argument about the subject make me feel any better.
- Location
- Europe
Besides arrogant bragging, why should they answer any of this?
We could use deceit (because they are wounded), lie and say we let them live and that were only after they major raid leaders or something.
And by interrogating them we are giving them more time to coordinate, the BF pretty much gave us away. If we want to strike fast, then Just killing them and moving on would be better.
- Location
- United States
Reposted from Discord at EJ's request:
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
(Apologies for weird formatting. I'm doing this on a tablet and it's impossible for me to differentiate anything unless I do this)
_THE_BOMB: EJ if we set up seal defenses around the Dogs would they be able to take an attack by leopard jonin? Assuming we had sufficient time.
EAGLEJARL: Hard to say, since he doesn't know how much time he has or what capability the enemy will have. Plus, he can't infuse seals or runes onsite.
_THE_BOMB: How long would he need? I've been going off this for his Seventh Path ability, but he didn't specify just how strong "competent" meant:
So, a few questions (which I am happy to repost in SV once I arrive home and get to use my computer again):
So, a few questions (which I am happy to repost in SV once I arrive home and get to use my computer again):
- How good is the basic perimeter?
- How good is a "competent" perimeter?
- Would using shadow clones to set it up with him allow him to make it significantly faster?
- How long would it take for him to set up traps[/defenses] that can kill Jōnin?
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
(Apologies for weird formatting. I'm doing this on a tablet and it's impossible for me to differentiate anything unless I do this)
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So what happened to these guys?
- Hyōtsume - killed by Cansaku
- Hyōsupotto - escaped unwounded
- Hyōrōbā - Took a Severe and tried to run, likely captured
- Hyōfajī - Took a Severe and tried to run, likely captured
- Hyōtsumaranai - killed by Canhachi
- Hyōkamumono - escaped unwounded
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Will post to QM chat. Thanks for the reminder.Clan Gouketsu is probably in pretty good shape. Physique isn't really a major stat priority for most individuals, and Hazou basically gets a free gym day every day from PCJ, so I imagine that he's rocking a pretty solid amount of lean muscle on the meatsack, compared to everyone else in his age bracket that isn't Rock Lee, or anyone that has literally no other options to train up.
(I note that we're about 1200 XP away from Physique 40, which gives us an extra spot on the good 'ol stress track. Decent upgrade.)
I wonder if PCJ stacks with like, a gravity room or something. Not at all a priority, but its something to consider.
Also, uh, while I'm at it, have we considered that a ninja's XP rate is boosted by large amounts of concentrated chakra? We should whip up those Chakra Density Runes (NB: I think these are called capacitors or something but that is a silly chemistry brained name that we should probably rework
Speaking of while I'm at it:
@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien
I think Paper said on Discord that the intent was roughly "This would apply to anything that counts as a seal", and I know that it says explicitly that the user can use the stunt to understand "all seals", but do you think we can get an edit on this portion of it so that it's clearer to all of us (including future!me, who is bad at remembering caveats like that)?
Proposed edit:
(Sorry about the second poke on this, I hope it's not annoying. Let me know if it is!)
That sounds super frustrating and disheartening. I'm sorry it came off that way for you. The update was not written in response to your comment, if that helps. I hadn't even seen your comment.
For the record, I think if it as something like signing your name -- it's a learned skill, it's not challenging once mastered, but it still takes a moment even after mastery. Contrast that with slamming a pre-inked stamp on the page.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Thank you for the sympathy, and the analogy does help contextualize this in a less frustrating way, so I appreciate that as well.