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Magna Graecia: Victory's Children (A City State Quest)

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gutza1 said:
Anyway, I have a question.

@Cetashwayo At what point will we be able to build something like the Academy, a high profile school that teaches various intellectual subjects?
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I originally did have an "academy" type building but it felt too gamey. A lyceum or other building could be constructed later but that kind of specialized building would be by event, not mechanic.
 
[X] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.
 
Ah. Well, I was wondering if later on I could propose a user motion to invite and sponsor Pythagoreans to work for Eretria.
 
[X] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.
 
Cetashwayo said:
I don't think you would want that, the Pythagoreans created oligarchic governments in many Western Greek city states :p
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Welp, didn't know that. Eh. I think it could still be an option in times of high Civic Tradition, when there isn't really that much of a chance for Oligarchs to take power.
 
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[X] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.

Other than keeping Harpos from getting too powerful, there's not much of an argument to be made against giving him the lion's share of the land.

Also, now that we have stone and a reliable water source, how about building a public bath? I'm hoping that @Cetashwayo will let it influence the city's health, thus nudging our annual growth rate up some.
 
gutza1 said:
Ah. Well, I was wondering if later on I could propose a user motion to invite and sponsor Pythagoreans to work for Eretria.
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Skantarios groans.

"As if the crackpots who think that we ought emulate swamp hicks or invade an island on the other side of the world weren't enough, now we want to invite strange Syracusian societies that believe eating beans means farting away your soul. I am beginning to think that our flight from Greece affected us more than just physically!"
 
[X] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.
 
Satar said:
Skantarios groans.

"As if the crackpots who think that we ought emulate swamp hicks or invade an island on the other side of the world weren't enough, now we want to invite strange Syracusian societies that believe eating beans means farting away your soul. I am beginning to think that our flight from Greece affected us more than just physically!"
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Symeon the intellectual retorts:

"These crackpots are uncovering the secrets of the universe itself! Even if they may hold... eccentric beliefs, their practice could allow us to build magnificent works of architecture in the future!"
 
[x] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.

"Bah, barbaroi are barbaroi. This one desires primacy over Cannosa just as he did when we first brought him to heel. At least this time he has learned to earn a reward before asking for it. Cannosa should not take our favor for granted. If they want to maintain the balance then they ought to keep up. Arpus is likely to make war upon the Epulian League again. They shall have their chance."
-So gripes Metakles son of Aresius

Also who's ready for getting covered in bones to become another loony tradition in Eretrian democracy?
 
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Gear said:
Also, now that we have stone and a reliable water source, how about building a public bath? I'm hoping that @Cetashwayo will let it influence the city's health, thus nudging our annual growth rate up some.
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Once you build a Tier III government building (such as a proper Court of Law), you'll be able to construct a city sewer. In this case it's not that court of law ==> sewer, but there's institutional boons from having a proper court of law building that will allow you to better organize your citizens. For one thing, people will be more willing to undertake larger works if they trust the city more and there'll be less corruption around. It's somewhat of an abstraction but it helps organize buildings and prevent choice anxiety, along with a tangible sense of progression.
 
[X] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.
Satar said:
Skantarios the Hoplite says:

"I distrust Harpos. He skulks about our city, braying his song to all who would hear- is that not suspicious, in and of itself? Ought we reward him for the poison he whispers into the ears of our people, so that we might mistaken a barely-caged wolf for a loyal dog? Harpos showed us no great loyalty in these past few days. His actions- and our acceptance of them- have only sown future grief between our people and the Lucani, or so great Drako has indicated, and I am of like mind as he.

Loyalty from a barbaroi is a farce, and the wisest course of action is to keep them turned against themselves. If we trust Harpos, and elevate him above the Canosans, we will surely come to regret it. "
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@Satar

Seldomus the Merchant argues:

"It is true that the barbaroi are not to be trusted - however, their duplicity is so deep that it extends not only to us but to their fellow barbaroi well! This is useful to us, as showing our favor to Harpos may inflame them against one another. Perhaps Canosa can be encouraged to go to greater efforts in our service in their attempts to stymie Harpos. In addition, the fortress Harpos proposes may be of great use to us not only in defending fair Eretria, but also in deflecting the fury of the Lucani to he that caused their woes. Indeed, the barbaroi are most susceptible to be played against one another in this way, for they have quarreled before in a most terrible fashion when the Lucani betrayed their erstwhile allies. Surely there is no love between them, and the Peuketti will desire their revenge."
Adhoc vote count started by Shebe Zuu on Sep 3, 2017 at 10:22 PM, finished with 42 posts and 20 votes.
  • [X] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.
    [X] Who are we to reprimand the Peuketii for doing as we asked and finding us food? Woe to the Lucani for ranging out of their territory for grazing, they have paid the price. Let us feast now and then return home with peace of mind and full stomach.
    [X] Provide an equal amount of land around Azetion to both Harpos and the Canosans to maintain the principle of equality between the Peuketii cities. What is loyalty among barbaroi? They cannot be trusted with such a power imbalance.
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[X] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone. But a good sheepdog should continue to herd sheep, and it is moot that Harpos provide us a token of his respect from the flocks he will raise on the new land, as his overlords.
 
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[X] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.

Personally I want to start one of the groves(I think we had olive and grape options) next as they will take several years to get up and running but long term will provide us with additional income.
 
[X] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.

Dyomedes, son of Lysandros, a young hoplite who had distinguised himself during the campaign spoke:

''Most of us decided it was wisdom to accept the gift of the gods and take the sheeps but it would be madeness to ignore the possible consequences of such an act. The Lucani will consider it an act of hostility when they will learn of it, of that they're can be no doubt. While it remain to be seen if they will march against us we must prepare for that eventuallity and Harpos fortress is a step in that direction.

I hold no great love for Harpos but hold even less for the Canosans. Should we reward subjects who fail to fight for their masters to the same degree then those who do? In any case, for the forseable future he will depend on us to be be protected from the vengeance of the Lucani. Should he prove disloyal afterward we will deal with him as we should but between the plausible threat of still unharmed ennemies and the hypothetical threat of a possible future rebellion of chastised and humbled subjects the former must take precedence''.

OOC: The FAQ page said we could just go ahead and create a character so I did just that. If I did anything wrong please let me know!
 
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[x] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.

Say no to bordergore!
 
Cetashwayo said:
You didn't do anything wrong, yes :p
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*Blush from embarrassment* Better fix that one ASAP :p

Edit: I also believe we should seriously consider starting construction on a stone walls. It is a large investment but the old wooden walls are becoming less and less appropriate for a city making her presence on the international scale more and more concuspicious. Not only would a stone wall serve our defence needs better but it would also beffit Eretria status far more then the present fortifications.
 
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[x] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.
 
Just to point out that while it might be logical to reward Harpos, the Canosans are the ones who control the crossing the newly successful and unoccupied Arpus would need to come over to attack us...

If we're going to give Harpos the land, one I'd say we make a tradition of him tithing some sheep for it, and two, we send Kallias off to sweet talk the Canosans and make clear that the next bit of land that comes up, say, on the Dauni side of the river, will go to them.
 
[X] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.
 
@Ironanvil1
While I agree with the general sentiment I don't think we should be going around promising people Dauni land - first: because we don't have any plans to take that land in the near future, and second: because if the Dauni hear about it they might think that we DO have plans to take their land and launch a preemptive strike. So yeah, that strikes me as writing checks we can't cash and buying us some unnecessary trouble with it.
Adhoc vote count started by Shebe Zuu on Sep 3, 2017 at 11:54 PM, finished with 37 posts and 20 votes.
  • [X] Provide more land to Harpos so that he may build his fortress. He has proven himself a good and loyal subject, and if we do not reward good and loyal subjects, what kind of masters are we? A dog who is beaten when he is good and given treats when he is bad is not useful to anyone.
    [X] Who are we to reprimand the Peuketii for doing as we asked and finding us food? Woe to the Lucani for ranging out of their territory for grazing, they have paid the price. Let us feast now and then return home with peace of mind and full stomach.​
    [X] Provide an equal amount of land around Azetion to both Harpos and the Canosans to maintain the principle of equality between the Peuketii cities. What is loyalty among barbaroi? They cannot be trusted with such a power imbalance.
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Strypgia said:
When I read an update, and then weigh the options, I generally come to at least a tentative choice before I move on. In an unrestricted quest, that means I can post my choice, with accompanying thoughts, right away. Votes are generally left open for a while, sometimes even several days, before the vote is called and the winning option tallied up.
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I take back everything good I ever thought about you :mad:

Like, I still have PoC flashbacks where the first posted vote with half-assed wall of text 'justifying' it is almost always going to win because of such fire-and-forget voters who see it and look no further. I fucking abused it successfully at times, but due to timezones I could not do it too often.
So, I am 100% in favour of moratorium because, like, lack of it the thing that made me seriously consider dropping out of PoC on more than several occasions.


....and there's a vote.
 
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