Taking the Athenian model as inspiration, the reliance on the navy to support and protect trade tended to make the political strength of the lower classes that manned the oars more prominent.
Their interest in war for increased pay would be dangerous. The nobles want the gain in material resources from foreign territory for themselves, so their interests align in pushing the city too easily into war. If I were a noble, I'd then make the oarsmen guarding the wealth in transport a buffer class in between the ordinary citizens and the aristocracy, as the citizens already are for the metics.
 
[X] Demos Antipatria

[X] ...Thurii & the Sikeliote League.

[X] Taras
.

Gah, I keep switching my votes!
 
[X] Demos Drakonia
[X]...Athenai.
[X] Korinthos.

Thalassokratia here we come. The idea of an Adriatic trading empire and a strong naval tradition is simply too good to pass up. I also wouldn't mind getting entangled in the Peloponnesian Wars by allying with Athenai against the League and beating down Korinthos before it gains more of a foothold in the Adriatic but it does appear that I'm in the minority here. Alas, it appears we're destined for a rivalry with Syrakousai, with whom we have few natural quarrels aside from their past treatment of Ionians.
 
Speaking of Pelopenesian war is there any chance to ally with Sparta other than Athens or are we going full meta and will not support losing side.
 
[X] Demos Drakonia
[X] ...Thurii & the Sikeliote League.
[X] Syrakousai
Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on May 15, 2019 at 6:49 PM, finished with 208 posts and 64 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on May 15, 2019 at 10:35 PM, finished with 229 posts and 72 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on May 17, 2019 at 3:21 PM, finished with 280 posts and 87 votes.
 
Speaking of Pelopenesian war is there any chance to ally with Sparta other than Athens or are we going full meta and will not support losing side.
it would be better if Athens won the Pelopenesian wars as them losing was start the end of Hellenistic Greece significance in the wide world even when Alexander the Great conquered the Persian Empire and Division of his empire, Greece was left behind
 
[X] Demos Drakonia
[X]...Athenai.
[X] Korinthos
Adhoc vote count started by Godwinson on May 15, 2019 at 7:29 PM, finished with 212 posts and 67 votes.
 
Here is my issue with this. It relies on us being able to charm our allies consistently, when we've had multiple diplo blunders in the past.
I'm not sure that's a fair description of our efforts, but even if it is...that's more reason to choose Antipatria. Think of it as the NPCs running the city before us building up a buffer of diplomatic cache, so that even if our efforts are subpar some of the difference is made up. That's why the description reads:
City will begin far more respected among its neighbors, reducing diplomatic incidents and encouraging enemies to negotiate before going to war.

If you think we're gonna bungle the diplomatic balance, then you should want us to have breathing room there.
 
@Cetashwayo what happened to our Thunderbird by the way?
Went to a farm in the country, duh.
Adhoc vote count started by Admiral Skippy on May 15, 2019 at 8:01 PM, finished with 214 posts and 67 votes.
 
[X] Demos Drakonia
[X] ...Athenai.
[X] Korinthos
Adhoc vote count started by Admiral Skippy on May 15, 2019 at 9:12 PM, finished with 220 posts and 71 votes.
 
Yay, its back :)

I haven't decided quite yet how I will vote (the one thing I am quite sure off is that the cost of having Carthage as an ally is probably gonna be too high) but I would say I get the feeling its better to think of those choices as parts of an eventual package rather then isolated decisions. The allies and assets we decide on should be, partially at least, decided by the ennemies we choose.

For example, if we are fighting Taras battles on the italian mainland are likely to be the deciding factor of any conflict. Therefore, better to get rid of the Daunis as possible ennemies and to get better hoplites with the Demos Exoria. Failing that, having Metapontion on our side with good relations with the other cities of Magna Grecia and Sicily with the Demos Antipatrie would be a descent second choice. Against Taras the Sikeliote League and Thurii would be the evident choice for allies.

Choosing Syracuse as an ennemy would essentially be the variation of Taras, another foe from the region with more theoritical power then Taras but also a more distant one, and a wounded one at that. While the better Hoplites would still be nice having the Dauni down is simply not as valuable then in a fight against a closer Taras, who might actually reach out to them, so the Demos Exoria is probably not gonna be the good choice against them. Tough a better economy and navy would undoutebly produce boons for us in opposing Syracuse the decisive factor in containing them would likely to be their opponents ability to get local powers to collaborate to do so, hence why the Antipatrae, as well as Thurii and the Sikeliote League, would be the way to go in this instance.

Finally, iff we go with Korinthos as an ennemy, on the other hand, any fight will have the sea as a principal theater, so better to with the Drakoniae and its better and bigger navy. While the risk of being engulfed in the Peloponesian War is not to be taken lightly this is the one instance where the advantage of going with Athens might just actually outweight them.
 
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My logic for going Drakonia/Athenai/Korinthos is because having another strong navy added to the mess that will be the Peloponnesian War might result in Sparta coming out the loser, which would be far better for the Greeks as a whole. We're not going to be able to avoid becoming entangled in that mess in some fashion, so I'd say that we should set ourselves up to be a decisive factor and thus able to benefit from the results.
 
[X] Demos Drakonia
[X] ...Thurii & the Sikeliote League.
[X] Syrakousai.
For context if anyone is confused or doesn't know the reference: Back in the original quest there was an outspoken metic girl called Ariadne whose father was fined after she got in a spot of public trouble. Shortly after that she disappeared during a riot, and not a few weeks later a very bright young lad by the name of Ianedar shows up, put forward by the merchant and former Proboulos Timaeus as a metic man of good standing and great intelligence. He and Timaeus become very close, and Ianedar, who is very definitely an upstanding young man, becomes the city's master of mint, doing a very brilliant man's job of it. As a man. Which she is. He. I mean he.

In the end, "He" and Timaeus remain very good friends (AND JUST FRIENDS) until their deaths. It wasn't anything particularly important to the quest but was a little bit of fun I snuck in for future historians in this universe to investigate and develop headcanons about.
...

----->joke




*Color of the sky*



My head.

I have been so unaware till now.
 
I think overall I came around to going for a stronger navy because we regretted not having one in the past (we could be allied with Taras still if we had a strong navy!) combined with a trading economy so that we can relive some of the Mectic wealth seeking into merchants. Also hoping that we can have enough money to do more building this time around.

Speaking of, could we consider having the sacred treasury drop to 5% income after something like 1 year of military expenses round up at the hundreds place+1000 or something and at 10% below that, that means once we have built up the rainy day fund we put less into it so instead we have more money to invest in improvements which should in turn provide increased income to make that 5% a bigger total amount.
Adhoc vote count started by Void Stalker on May 15, 2019 at 9:54 PM, finished with 225 posts and 72 votes.
 
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